Want to fix the debt problem? We need to print more money!

RyanTheRhino

RyanTheRhino

Well-Known Member
mame said:
Actually printing money has led to stronger exports(this is merchandise, manufactored goods show a similiar although not as robust trend):

Furthermore, qe1 and qe2 have helped reduce the burden of debt on both the public and private sector, the latter being immensely important to any prospects for recovery.
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way to get that hot link from "blogspot.com" lmao


that's a blog lmao

Blogs : are usually maintained by an individual with regular entries of commentary, descriptions of events, or other material such as graphics or video.

good luck finding that on my blog
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
attack the material, not the source; There is nothing wrong with the Street light blog either, it's written by economist Kash Mansori... It's actually pretty informative and it's updated frequently enough.

http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/

Besides, I could go pull the same data off of the BLS or FRED or a dozen other resources - a different source isn't going to change the data, and the data clearly shows that the U.S. export trade balance, while still being negative overall, has improved since qe1 and qe2.
 
DrFever

DrFever

New Member
hey mame can i ask you something ???? when bush was president he was making money like no other
In the 12 years of the Reagan/Bush administrations, the United States went from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor. Many of those nations which had enjoyed huge trade surpluses started loaning that profit back to the United States with the stipulation that we work on our manufacturing, clean up our infrastructure, raise taxes, in short, clean up our act, so that investment in America makes sense! Yet another stunt the government has pulled is to "borrow" from the various trust funds under its control. Some $2 billion has vanished from the trust accounts of Native Americans (presently suing the Departments of the Interior and Treasury), and nearly ¾ of a TRILLION dollars has been removed from your Social Security retirement trust fund and spent in the last 8 years.If the government has to borrow your retirement money when things are supposed to be so good, under what conditions can it repay the money? Or is that government IOU in your retirement account merely a promise to either tax you a second time or stiff you on the benefits you thought you were paying for? In the last 8 years, during what are supposed to be record setting good times, the Federal government has nearly DOUBLED its debt load. The estimated interest on the debt equals all the personal income tax paid by all Americans. Our government is so deep in debt that it cannot get out.
so makin more money sure the hell is not goin to help thats what caused all this mess
like you if your living from paycheck to paycheck and as years go by your start useing more of your credit cards cause you just cant survive prices for everything has gone up your paycheck doesnt take you as far as it used to what happens there ????
in time you get so far into debt that you cant get out im sure we all bin there at one point and many are in it right now it sucks yes
america has way to much shit on there plate at the moment unemployment , healthcare, schooling this are some of the major problems
this is no shit with average grade level in usa @ grade 8 level kids these days only want the big bucks so there not learning skills rather then becoming corperate lawyers running there tuitions to the hilt
hey mame just go by some college or university see how many 50 yr olds are still in school ???
what i find funny is really just look in your own household at how many things were made in the states you be shocked even americans are smart enough to realize sure alot cheaper to buy other countries goods look at your pc your typing with made in japan your Tv , go for a walk see how many import cars you see prob 5 to 1 ratio to a amercian built car and prob the american built car was made in mexico to boot
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
mame said:
attack the material, not the source; There is nothing wrong with the Street light blog either, it's written by economist Kash Mansori... It's actually pretty informative and it's updated frequently enough.

http://streetlightblog.blogspot.com/

Besides, I could go pull the same data off of the BLS or FRED or a dozen other resources - a different source isn't going to change the data, and the data clearly shows that the U.S. export trade balance, while still being negative overall, has improved since qe1 and qe2.
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how does that chart show QE as a success?

looks to me that the exports tanked along with the world economy and started to recover as the world economy started to recover.

i would also guess that the lines are about to start back down. not because of QE but despite of it.
 
sync0s

sync0s

Well-Known Member
This made me laugh

"We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself
into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and
trying to lift himself up by the handle."​
- Winston Churchill​
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​
 
Charlie Ventura

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
Dan Kone said:
Question - I don't understand why you want to make your argument based on stating something that is blatantly not true. Why bother doing that? What do you get out of it? What you're saying has no basis in reality what so ever and is proven false. So why insist on it?

The best stimulus money can buy is unquestionably food stamps. That's not my opinion, it's a proven fact that food stamps give the best economic return on your money. For every dollar the government hands out in food stamps, one dollar is directly and immediately spent in the marketplace. Because of the recirculating effect of market spending, the effect on GDP is actually $1.73 increase in GDP for every dollar spent on food stamps.

The effect of tax cuts as stimulus is actually one of the worst you can possibly get (avg $1.02 GDP increase for every dollar spent). Of course that depends on the tax cuts, but almost all tax cuts have less effect on the economy than unemployment benefits, aid to state governments, and infrastructure spending.

What you're saying is 100% false.
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So then, would it be fair to say that if every American were put on federally funded food stamps, we would then have a booming economy?
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
Charlie Ventura said:
So then, would it be fair to say that if every American were put on federally funded food stamps, we would then have a booming economy?
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No one said that; What it does mean is that when government does spend, food stamps are more cost effective than tax cuts in terms of economic stimulus.

You righties are always trying to paint progressives into the "slippery slope" argument, but it's really not like that at all. When Dan says food stamps are proven to be an effective form of government spending, you guys say "oh well then give everyone food stamps!"; When anyone else says raising revenue would help with our fiscal situation you say, "well then tax 'em 100% then! If we can tax our way into prosperity!"... I mean, this may be hard to believe but progressives dont want to reinstate 90% tax rates, nor do we want to give everyone food stamps... We believe in hard work and earning a living just like you guys do, it's just that we understand that shit happens... Sometimes people need help.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
mame said:
I mean, this may be hard to believe but progressives dont want to reinstate 90% tax rates, nor do we want to give everyone food stamps... We believe in hard work and earning a living just like you guys do, it's just that we understand that shit happens... Sometimes people need help.
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ummm thats pretty much exactly what you guys want to do, soak the rich and keep the poor in front of the TV.

Believe in hard work? Please don't make me laugh, half the folks on food stamps don't work at all.
 
mame

mame

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
ummm thats pretty much exactly what you guys want to do, soak the rich and keep the poor in front of the TV.

Believe in hard work? Please don't make me laugh, half the folks on food stamps don't work at all.
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Well, I would support limits to welfare receipiants (many states already have this kind of limit) as well as creating jobs programs, etc to get people back to work as well as maybe some kind of way to hold people accountable and keep them from taking advantage of the system... but people like my girlfriend who has been working AND going to school since we left high school who merely had a rough couple of months and needed help should continue to have access to these social programs. I mean, this is obviously an ideal that's fairly difficult to achieve but I'd like to see our social safety nets used like they are safety nets and not a free ride. TBH, I understand the frustration and how it is so prevelent especially among conservatives... I understand it, I really do; My mom was a welfare mom, I was a welfare child, my siblings were welfare children... I saw firsthand how living off the system can really fuck shit up. My mom was and still is a sociopath, a theif and a pathological liar but that doesn't mean people like her should have the power to ruin it for people like my girlfriend, who really did need a little help in a brief time of need.

Reform, not Repeal.
 
sso

sso

Well-Known Member
hmm, in iceland, before they went free market style, they were pretty much standard socialist, banks, power, water, phone, all government owned and so on.

unemployment rates were 1-2% at most, despite the country having a pretty solid welfaresystem and free education and hospitals (all paid through taxes)

well, some people talked them into that a superfree market would be even better and so they sold all government property (to cronies was later found out)
lowered the taxes on the rich and companies (the extra wealth will..trickle down, was said :))

and loosened restrictions.

well, things got better for awhile, vastly better for 1-2% of the population and some apparent improvement to about 30% of the population , mostly in the forms of freely accessible loans..

loans that turned out to be carefully arranged scams (not proven yet though lol)

ending up with people needing to pay 2-3x the original paid amount

nowadays, people cant buy houses any more, ya borrow say 20 million and ya end up paying 120 million to the bank (not dollars)

cause it all went floops, many people bankrupt and the banks themselves needed to be saved, and unemployment figures are up to 10%+

government in debt quite beyond 100% of national capacity.

sure, the free market was able to raise the country up a notch.

at first, so there is something to that idea. the market should be free, for the most part, but certain key elements to society need to be in the possession of the people and banks are one of them, all which the people NEED (not just want and desire (tv´s, toiletwarmers and so on)

should be in the possession of the people.

the cronies bankrupted the shit anyway, built a lot of gilt and fancy palaces, private airplanes and lot of crap and just ruined old good businesses.

greed before need.

socialism obviously works better than pure capitalism, though obviously socialism needs to loosen up bit.

but its kinda funny seeing americans talk of socialism being bad. (see people going into uproar about that statement lol, a few)

cause, america is so in debt, that even if you stopped all spending (and everyone) except on food and housing and you´d still be a while to pay your debts

same as every country that went the "free market" way.

same story across the board :)
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Maybe we should tax the poor 90% and give the food stamps to the rich? It might work in the long run. A large reduction in population caused by starvation would be a economic boon to this country. Especially when you consider all the millions of rich people spending their food stamp money would surely bring the economy around.:lol:
 
sso

sso

Well-Known Member
what i think about the free market, was..

they focused too much on the big companies, the banks and the stockbrokers (lol fortunetellers ..)

while i think the small market should be helped instead, loosened up a bit and made easier, starting new companies, small businesses.

get some fresh blood in.

the big companies dont need any help, as it is , they should help others more themselves, give a little back to the community.
 
Michael Sparks

Michael Sparks

Active Member
This is the same thing the nazi's were doing in the 30-40's thanks to one good marine general they failed, here they are succeeding with the patriot act first by Bush, and extended by obama, read and research, don't be a slave to the social order.
 
sso

sso

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
No such thing as a "Free" market unless you go to Somalia or something.

How is Iceland doing now?
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well, its free if you are "the right sort" ;) (crony capitalism, i guess its called)

iceland is ok, you could say that.

alot of people lost everything, though usually only the folks that borrowed for just about everything they bought, 100% loans for a house and shit like that.
the people that bought in to the big bubble scheme (scam)

lot of jobs were lost too.

but the thing is

nothing real was lost, it was all just a bubble, numbers in a computer.

anyone that participated in the scam, bought into it, they lost of course, anyone connected with them, also, to some degree.

huge scam, that people were doing worldwide it appears. lot of people bought into it.

the majority, enough so the governments participated, enough that they now are in the same mess. in debt up to their chin.

but, it was only a bubble, nothing real lost and plenty of people didnt participate and mostly idiots participated, so not really that big of an amount of cash..

trouble is..

despite a lot of people wizening up and some action being on the horizon, for some change (and clamoring for some real change)

the trouble is, they arent really that cohesive nor clever in their efforts and everyone that participated in the scam is slowly getting into position to repeat it.

so it kinda looks like there is going to be another crash and this time big. in about 10 years time.

possibly worldwide.
 
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