20,000 Watt Medical Grow Op Construction

[collective gardener]

What kind of yield are you pulling from that, if you don't mind? I ask because I'm adding another room about that size and I'm going back and forth about whether to do 400 cmh's (already have one setup), or just go with the 600's I was planning on.

I vote 600's. That will give you 50 watts/sq ft.

 

[kckid816]

Wow...I've never seen so many pruners in one place. Should we have a secret handshake?

My method is more.

That's exactly how I prune. I look at it as they would lose some of the leaves in nature anyways (wind, predators, etc) that the plant won't freak out if I thin them out. I get more aggressive later to make sure more bud gets light.

 

[Wolverine97]

I vote 600's. That will give you 50 watts/sq ft.

Yeah, that was my original plan but I've been very intrigued by the amount of hype that the newer ceramic metal halides have been getting. They have an absolute kick ass spectrum, with a healthy dose of UV-b for increased thc production, along with a lot less heat to deal with. I typically run 1000's, but I'm getting bored again and feel the need to experiment...

 

[C.Indica]

Yeah, that was my original plan but I've been very intrigued by the amount of hype that the newer ceramic metal halides have been getting. They have an absolute kick ass spectrum, with a healthy dose of UV-b for increased thc production, along with a lot less heat to deal with. I typically run 1000's, but I'm getting bored again and feel the need to experiment...

I'm saving money for a nice 150w/250w CMH setup.
They look kickass.

 

[TheLastWood]

Imo 400w cmh > 600w hps and 2x400 w cmh > 1000w hps

But its rly not the watts per sq ft that matter. The plants don't see watts.

An hps is like a brute forve attack where you output intense amounts of heat and light, a fraction of which is useful to plants.

One look at the spectrum of a cmh and you will see what I mean. I can run my plants farther from the light with same results.

And for my yield, I haven't maxed out the lights yet but I'm getting ready too fill the room so ill let you know.

I've harvested a few plants under it and my yield did improve from the 400w hps. The nugs were also harder and frostier. But the jack herer is the only strain I grew in both hps and cmh

I planned on slowing/stopping for summer so I didn't have a lot of plants going then I got the cmh so haven't had the room stuffed yet

 

[collective gardener]

That's exactly how I prune. I look at it as they would lose some of the leaves in nature anyways (wind, predators, etc) that the plant won't freak out if I thin them out. I get more aggressive later to make sure more bud gets light.

That is true about the outdoor plants in nature. I know that is doesn't "hurt" the plant to prune it. My plants don't even seem to stunt after a healthy trim back. I've gone at 5' mother plants with hedge cutters, shearing off the top foot of the entire plant. I bloomed that plant a week later and got almost a pound.

 

[rosecitypapa]

TLW, can you retrofit any 400 mh ballast or just a certain type? I'm wanting to experiment with vertical lighting arrays and those cmh's are intriguing to me in that application.

 

[collective gardener]

Yeah, that was my original plan but I've been very intrigued by the amount of hype that the newer ceramic metal halides have been getting. They have an absolute kick ass spectrum, with a healthy dose of UV-b for increased thc production, along with a lot less heat to deal with. I typically run 1000's, but I'm getting bored again and feel the need to experiment...

I'm always leary of sacrificing lumens for spectrum. The LED claims are a perfect example of this. Theoretically 200 watts of LED lighting should do the job of 600 watts of HPS. Well, in theory that's very nice. In reality, that's BS. I'd hate to see you give up the brightness of a 600 in exchange for claims of spectrum improvements. You know, in theory, a metal halide has a MUCH better PAR value than an HPS. Yet, ever bloom with your MH next to your HPS? I have. That's why I still bloom with HPS.

There was one significant improvement in HPS lighting that really does increase yield. It happened around 1993-1995. It was the advent of the "enhanced blue spectrum" HPS. The Son Agro, or the Agro Son (I always forget which one), was the first blue enhanced HPS bulb. Prior to this invention, any grower worth his salt was running 1 MH for every 2 HPS in his/her bloom room. Most of us ran Sun Circles. Then, a series of articles in growing publications highlighted the new blue enhanced HPS. We all ran out and bought some of these new bulbs. Holy shit. These things really worked. They made a huge difference over growing with the old HPS bulbs. These bulbs were the precursers of the most popular HPS bulb today...the Hortilux Eye.

Companies that sell their bulbs/lights with a 10 page explanation of why their bulbs should out perform others scare me. But, hey Wolverine, if you do get them run a test for us. It's nice in this group we can run independant studies of anything we buy.

 

[C.Indica]

It's only a few thousand lumens CG, and after another 6" it barely even makes a difference.
Hahahahaha.

But you've given me hope on HPS bulbs, I was convinced they were bad news.

 

[Wolverine97]

I'm always leary of sacrificing lumens for spectrum. The LED claims are a perfect example of this. Theoretically 200 watts of LED lighting should do the job of 600 watts of HPS. Well, in theory that's very nice. In reality, that's BS. I'd hate to see you give up the brightness of a 600 in exchange for claims of spectrum improvements. You know, in theory, a metal halide has a MUCH better PAR value than an HPS. Yet, ever bloom with your MH next to your HPS? I have. That's why I still bloom with HPS.

There was one significant improvement in HPS lighting that really does increase yield. It happened around 1993-1995. It was the advent of the "enhanced blue spectrum" HPS. The Son Agro, or the Agro Son (I always forget which one), was the first blue enhanced HPS bulb. Prior to this invention, any grower worth his salt was running 1 MH for every 2 HPS in his/her bloom room. Most of us ran Sun Circles. Then, a series of articles in growing publications highlighted the new blue enhanced HPS. We all ran out and bought some of these new bulbs. Holy shit. These things really worked. They made a huge difference over growing with the old HPS bulbs. These bulbs were the precursers of the most popular HPS bulb today...the Hortilux Eye.

Companies that sell their bulbs/lights with a 10 page explanation of why their bulbs should out perform others scare me. But, hey Wolverine, if you do get them run a test for us. It's nice in this group we can run independant studies of anything we buy.

Oh for sure, none of that is lost on me at all. I've always used 1kw hps (Eye Hortilux the past 5 years), but I've been watching a lot of people's grows who are using the cmh's, and they're interesting to say the least. LED has never been something I've considered, but these things have my attention. Another factor is overall power usage, I'm running out of space in my main panel... gotta quit adding shit.

 

[Jozikins]

Since it is part of the subject thought I would let you know I pulled my 600w HPS bulb from my tent that went dim and orange on me the other day and popped a standard 400w MH in there with no lens on the hood. I was looking for my Hortilux Blue but couldn't find it, so a standard will do fine for the day or 2 until I locate it. Either way, I want to see if it really will increase my resin count. The bulb is much brighter than my defective HPS bulb, which only lasted three months, which is a bummer. I've never screwed around with MH in flower, but decided it was worth a shot seeing as my HPS burned up and I really don't want to drive down the hill to get a new Sun Master. I've ran a lot of Sun Master and a lot of Hortilux, and even though the Hotilux is more consistant, the Sun Master is bright as fuck for the first 6 months, and then dims down like clockwork. The new Digilux by CAP are fucking amazing too, but I've only played with the 400w HPS.

Anyways, I'll let you guys know if I see a significant improvement, if not, it's just a good way to save power for the last week, lol.

 

[kevin murphy]

could be really nice that lad im thinking of doin that let me know the results will ya..

 

[kevin murphy]

excellent post mate i didnt know that but i wonder if the more blue in flower coming to the end results in more resin have u tried it and is it good and worth doin

I'm always leary of sacrificing lumens for spectrum. The LED claims are a perfect example of this. Theoretically 200 watts of LED lighting should do the job of 600 watts of HPS. Well, in theory that's very nice. In reality, that's BS. I'd hate to see you give up the brightness of a 600 in exchange for claims of spectrum improvements. You know, in theory, a metal halide has a MUCH better PAR value than an HPS. Yet, ever bloom with your MH next to your HPS? I have. That's why I still bloom with HPS.

There was one significant improvement in HPS lighting that really does increase yield. It happened around 1993-1995. It was the advent of the "enhanced blue spectrum" HPS. The Son Agro, or the Agro Son (I always forget which one), was the first blue enhanced HPS bulb. Prior to this invention, any grower worth his salt was running 1 MH for every 2 HPS in his/her bloom room. Most of us ran Sun Circles. Then, a series of articles in growing publications highlighted the new blue enhanced HPS. We all ran out and bought some of these new bulbs. Holy shit. These things really worked. They made a huge difference over growing with the old HPS bulbs. These bulbs were the precursers of the most popular HPS bulb today...the Hortilux Eye.

Companies that sell their bulbs/lights with a 10 page explanation of why their bulbs should out perform others scare me. But, hey Wolverine, if you do get them run a test for us. It's nice in this group we can run independant studies of anything we buy.

 

[Jozikins]

could be really nice that lad im thinking of doin that let me know the results will ya..

You got it buddy.

 

[davidgrimm]

CG

Did WAMM work out for you?

 

[collective gardener]

Since it is part of the subject thought I would let you know I pulled my 600w HPS bulb from my tent that went dim and orange on me the other day and popped a standard 400w MH in there with no lens on the hood. I was looking for my Hortilux Blue but couldn't find it, so a standard will do fine for the day or 2 until I locate it. Either way, I want to see if it really will increase my resin count. The bulb is much brighter than my defective HPS bulb, which only lasted three months, which is a bummer. I've never screwed around with MH in flower, but decided it was worth a shot seeing as my HPS burned up and I really don't want to drive down the hill to get a new Sun Master. I've ran a lot of Sun Master and a lot of Hortilux, and even though the Hotilux is more consistant, the Sun Master is bright as fuck for the first 6 months, and then dims down like clockwork. The new Digilux by CAP are fucking amazing too, but I've only played with the 400w HPS.

Anyways, I'll let you guys know if I see a significant improvement, if not, it's just a good way to save power for the last week, lol.

we're running 12 - 1000 watt Digilux's in our bloom room. They're the best bulbs I've ever used. More output than the Eye, and far better output after 6 months of use. They just don't seem to get much dimmer. I've only lost around 5% in 6 months.

 

[collective gardener]

CG

Did WAMM work out for you?

I sent em an email offering free meds...haven't heard back. Thank you very much for the lead, though

 

[collective gardener]

excellent post mate i didnt know that but i wonder if the more blue in flower coming to the end results in more resin have u tried it and is it good and worth doin

I've used Horti's for a dozen years and just switched to Digilux's when I switched to all Digital Ballasts. I have to say that I still think 2 parts HPS and 1 part MH is the best. It's just too much a pain in the ass. I thought of using a Hortilux Daylight Blue just for the last 2 weeks or so. I have one in the veg room and it provides the tightest node spacing of any light I've used. It's not too bright...80,000 lux for a 1000, and very expensive...over $200.

I think an assembly line trpe lighting may be the best: MH for the first 2 weeks of bloom to stack the nodes tight, then HPS for weeks 3-6 to develope the buds, then maybe some crazy combo including the reptile light the last 2 weeks for resin developement. There just has to be a ballance between the perfect product and keeping the work load managable. I almost need 2 complete grow ops: One for production, and one smaller one to try out different stuff.

 

[collective gardener]

Oh for sure, none of that is lost on me at all. I've always used 1kw hps (Eye Hortilux the past 5 years), but I've been watching a lot of people's grows who are using the cmh's, and they're interesting to say the least. LED has never been something I've considered, but these things have my attention. Another factor is overall power usage, I'm running out of space in my main panel... gotta quit adding shit.

If you run out of available amps, but still have space, a flip op is the way to go. I may just build another bloom room and run it on a flip using my existing room's ballasts and power supply. I think a 4 light flip box is around $225.00....far less than 4 new ballasts.

 

[Jozikins]

I've used Horti's for a dozen years and just switched to Digilux's when I switched to all Digital Ballasts. I have to say that I still think 2 parts HPS and 1 part MH is the best. It's just too much a pain in the ass. I thought of using a Hortilux Daylight Blue just for the last 2 weeks or so. I have one in the veg room and it provides the tightest node spacing of any light I've used. It's not too bright...80,000 lux for a 1000, and very expensive...over $200.

I think an assembly line trpe lighting may be the best: MH for the first 2 weeks of bloom to stack the nodes tight, then HPS for weeks 3-6 to develope the buds, then maybe some crazy combo including the reptile light the last 2 weeks for resin developement. There just has to be a ballance between the perfect product and keeping the work load managable. I almost need 2 complete grow ops: One for production, and one smaller one to try out different stuff.

That's what I eventually had to do. As a salesman I have a round tail and am a sucker for a good marketing campaign, so I eventually had to build a small unit to test new products and techniques in. It was a worthwhile investment, it rocket propelled me through a lot of extra experience in the beginning. I recently bought a tent to keep doing this, because I gave the test unit to an old room mate/grow partner when I moved out. Hortilux Blue's are pretty fucking awesome man, waayyyy to expensive, lumens are wayyyy to low, but some how they consistently give better growth just through the spectrum. I am looking for mine right now, I wanted to put that over my plants instead of some standard industrial grade MH.