The Federal Reserve does something Bold!

[mame]

My biggest problem in all this is the fact that no reforms are being introduced, anywhere. Throwing money at the problem without addressing the underlying cause is irresponsible and reckless. People with common sense know that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is moronic. Why aren't we fixing the leaky boat instead of bailing the water out when it starts to sink? It boggles the mind.

That's a good point, and Ms. Lagarde of the IMF has said basically the same thing, that nations should be reforming their financial system - but political paralysis makes that very difficult... At least we got the Frank-Dodd act here in the U.S.

 

[NoDrama]

I know how this will end for the Fed, hoisted by their own petard.

 

[doc111]

So who ultimately pays for these bailouts? hmm? hmmm? WE DO!!! Its all on the tax payers back!! This will only kick the can down the road and cause the inevitable crash to be even worse. look at all the money wasted on Greece, they are never going to get back on their feet and neither will the rest of the world. The system failed because it was being gamed, nothing has changed, the gamers are still playing and the same thing will keep happening until we just let failures be failures. Why should the citizen have to pay for the sins of the bankers even more? Inflation is going to be really shitty. At some point we have to stop lending our money to the town drunk to keep getting drunk.

lol! I believe it's simple commone sense here. If throwing billions, even trillions had been shown to work, I would be all for it. Unfortunately we are now 3 years into this mess and no end in sight. A good example: I have a friend who is a pretty bad alcoholic (your town drunk analogy made me think of this. lol!). He kept getting DUI's and his family kept bailing him out of jail and using their political influence to help him get lenient sentencing. Finally after his 3rd DUI they said "Enough!" They let him stay in jail, didn't bail him out and told him he would be unable to see his children until he gets his shit together. Guess what? He finally got his shit together and is working a really good job and doesn't drink at all anymore. Amazing what a little tough love can do.

 

[newatit2010]

Its funny that some people get such a hard on when they hear the country is getting knocked down a little more. Hope the tax payers are ready for this one. Greeces welfare system is worst than ours and we will never be able to pay theirs off or ours at this rate.

 

[Mr Neutron]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/15/markets/ecb_central_banks_liquidity/index.htm

BOLD

I didn't think Bernanke and co had it in 'em... The two day Federal reserve policymaking meetings set to take place the 20th and 21st may actually produce action after all!

So... where is the money coming from?

 

[Mr Neutron]

and that is good news whether you understand how monetarism works or not.

rotflmao...

 

[Mr Neutron]

because all of you have failed to present any evidence to suggest i should be. Is this how you guys think debates are won?
[/b]

the evidence is all around you, keynesian philosophy is a failure, a rational person can see that

 

[mame]

You can say whatever you like, it does not make it true... And you have failed - many times - to discredit keynesianism.

Meanwhile the confidence fairy has been exposed; Austerity has not brought the confidence your leaders claim it should have, not here, not in Europe...

 

[smokebros]

Keynesian economics are en epic failure. People who fail to understand this after repeated attempts are ignorant.

 

[mame]

Keynesian economics are en epic failure. People who fail to understand this after repeated attempts are ignorant.

More name calling... Still no evidence to support your assertion... Nothing to see here.

 

[NoDrama]

Lets see, is there any evidence that it works?

 

[mame]

Lets see, is there any evidence that it works?

Off the top of my head I point to the first stimulus which saved or created 3 million jobs, and essentially "stopped the bleeding" that was 700,000 jobs lost per month when Obama first came into office. Now, obviously my position was that it wasn't big enough but it had a positive effect on the economy, which is important... But we've had this debate before haven't we?

One thing I'm sure we both agree on, Austerity is contractionary - which flies in the face of Republican lawmakers of whom have been pushing Austerity for nearly Obama's entire presidency under the guise that it is expansionary...

Where is the evidence Austrian economics works? Keynesianism has stood the test of time, we're in a pile of shit right now obviously - a liquidity trap (duh) - but it is Keynesianism that can stop the vicious cycle perpetuated by the the liquidity trap (or of course, monetarism - stay tuned after sept 20-21st fed meetings.. will they take more bold steps on the economy?).

But this thread is about the Federal reserve - which practices monetarism and it's move to team up with the other central banks is a big deal... I'll be watching this closely...

 

[UncleBuck]

as an economic ignoramus yet interested observer of the conversation, it seems like a bunch of crybabies are clamoring and screaming that keynesianism is a failure while failing to provide any evidence.

so, in that case, you're all towels. or, as no drama is tying to put it, show me that you're not a towel.

perhaps if i put it in large, bold letters like mr neutron did, that will make my claim true

 

[NoDrama]

Off the top of my head I point to the first stimulus which saved or created 3 million jobs, and essentially "stopped the bleeding" that was 700,000 jobs lost per month when Obama first came into office. Now, obviously my position was that it wasn't big enough but it had a positive effect on the economy, which is important... But we've had this debate before haven't we?

One thing I'm sure we both agree on, Austerity is contractionary - which flies in the face of Republican lawmakers of whom have been pushing Austerity for nearly Obama's entire presidency under the guise that it is expansionary...

Where is the evidence Austrian economics works? Keynesianism has stood the test of time, we're in a pile of shit right now obviously - a liquidity trap (duh) - but it is Keynesianism that can stop the vicious cycle perpetuated by the the liquidity trap (or of course, monetarism - stay tuned after sept 20-21st fed meetings.. will they take more bold steps on the economy?).

But this thread is about the Federal reserve - which practices monetarism and it's move to team up with the other central banks is a big deal... I'll be watching this closely...

Saved or created 3 million jobs? I bet you can't prove any of that. In case you hadn't noticed, unemployment is UP since Obama took office. Jobs have been lost, not saved.

Austerity is exactly what the politicians want. They want more for themselves and less for us.

Who said anything about Austrian economics? Keynesian has stood the test of time?, you mean 50 years is enough time to prove it works wonderfully? So during that time there were never any depressions or recessions?

Moneterism, is this the word that you think describes how the system works? The Fed can put out an unlimited amount of money into the system, if Keynesianism really worked they would have done it already. The fact that they can't and won't indicates that Keynesianism is severely flawed.

This will only cause even more inflation.

 

[mame]

Saved or created 3 million jobs? I bet you can't prove any of that. In case you hadn't noticed, unemployment is UP since Obama took office. Jobs have been lost, not saved.

I would cite the CBO report or numerous independent reports, but you'll only say they're wrong.

Austerity is exactly what the politicians want. They want more for themselves and less for us.

It's what the Republicans want, and it's what the Democrats are being forced to do due to political pressure caused by the "out of control" deficits and debt we have. I'm not saying Democrats dont care to be fiscally responsible - but there is a time and place for everything... Again, we've talked about this extensively.

Who said anything about Austrian economics? Keynesian has stood the test of time?, you mean 50 years is enough time to prove it works wonderfully? So during that time there were never any depressions or recessions?

Neutron, Smokebros, and Deprave were saying Keynesianism has failed - without presenting any evidence of course - and judging by their previous posts they believe Austrian economics, pushed primarily by Ron Paul, is the answer. I'm not sure you've ever alluded to Austrian economics as the answer but judging by you dislike of the Federal reserve, you dont seem to be receptive of monetarism either...

Moneterism, is this the word that you think describes how the system works? The Fed can put out an unlimited amount of money into the system, if Keynesianism really worked they would have done it already. The fact that they can't and won't indicates that Keynesianism is severely flawed.

You know just as well as I the political paralysis that has taken hold of our country ever since that senator died during the HC debate... If it was a Democratic house and senate I'd bet my 50" plasma that they'd pursue another stimulus (and it'd likely be much larger than Obama's currently proposed 447B, 60% of which is tax cuts). "the fact that they can't and won't" doesn't indicate a flaw in keynesianism, it indicates that the entire Republican party is united on a platform of obstructionism(they've broken nearly every record of obstructionism in the proccess... so they're doing it quite well atm).

This will only cause even more inflation.

Good, we need inflation right now; a 4-6% core target would be nice.

 

[mame]

The Republicans are controlling the narrative, until they lose that control they can block any legislation they want without political ramifications... I mean, since when is building bridges and roads a partisan position?

 

[NoDrama]

Building bridges and roads are good things only if they are needed. Do not advocate make work jobs that just waste capital and produce nothing.

When I say "the Fed" I mean the federal reserve, not federal government. The US Government has zero power to create money, they can only borrow it. Any "Stimulus" by government is but the cheating of posterity, who do you think ultimately pays for the stimulus? likewise when the Fed (Reserve) stimulates (QE1, QE2, QE3) the cost is ultimately born by the everyday man who pays for it all through loss of purchasing power in the currency.

Keynes just found a way to blow bubbles, right now there is a treasury bubble, it dwarfs the real estate bubble and when it blows it will make '08 look like child's play.

 

[UncleBuck]

Keynes just found a way to blow bubbles, right now there is a treasury bubble, it dwarfs the real estate bubble and when it blows it will make '08 look like child's play.

don't forget the gold bubble

and still, no one has answered the question i originally asked in this thread. still, a lot of cries of 'KEYNES BAD!'

only you have even attempted to inject reason and thought into that side of the debate.

 

[mame]

Treasury bubble, eh? Should warn Japan then, they've been holding interest rates low since the early 90's.

Building bridges and roads are good things only if they are needed. Do not advocate make work jobs that just waste capital and produce nothing.

So then if every single project had it's merits - for example the bridge that's being built between Portland, Or and Vancouver, WA to alleviate heavy traffic on the I5 - you would be for it then right? What if 1 trillion dollars worth of infrastructure, all of it with legitimate merit were to be pushed by Democrats? Let's assume we're paying for it... I have a feeling you'd argue that it's not the federal governments job that it's the state and local levels that should do it but if it's the state and local level that you feel should have control of these projects how about having every state apply for financial aid from the Federal government for projects that they themselves choose? You minimize waste, fix our crumbling infrastructure, avoid further deficits and stimulate aggregate demand... sort of like the infrastructure bank idea, but have the option for state and local governments to petition for aid for projects as well as private interprise...

 

[beardo]

....Because we need more hungry homeless U.S. citizens?
Because we have to high a standard of living?