Its ridiculous how many people wanna talk shit about leds. Fuck your lumens, its about PAR! HID wastes way too much light, it produces very little the plants actually use. Yes, theyre much more expensive, but dammit you cheap asses, the buds are of much higher quality! It takes a special blend of spectrums but if its done right, HID dont even come close! My run wasnt real impressive, but the mistakes were my fault, the light produced the best buds Ive ever grown. Not the biggest, but the density was so high that they barely shrunk when dried and outweighed the hps buds. So argue all you want, Ive made the comparisons first hand and will be running ALL LED as soon as I can afford to.