LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
cyberbiota said:
In addition to the benefits of solid state lighting (dramatically reduced energy use, exact spectral wavelengths matched to the absorption maxima of chlorophyll a and b, no UV, no IR, our lights are straight DC so there is no flicker that disturbs the chloroplast orientation, and no heat directed at the plants, so less water is lost through transpiration) you can control the wavelengths individually to promote foliar growth or to induce budding. We now have a large database of the optimal timing of light, spectral composition for each stage of growth, and it is all controlled via microprocessor in the power distribution box, and modifiable by a user interface that runs on your linux/wintel/mac/iPhone/Android. Call or email if you have questions or wish to be a beta tester. http//www.cyberbiota.com

Never buy photons you don't need, and your crops cant use!

Peter C, Charles, PhD
Director of Research and Technology
Advanced Photobiology Laboratory
CyberBiota, INC
http//www.cyberbiota.com
Click to expand...
No uv? no IR... than your missing out my friend... I have posted studies that prove BOTH of these spectrums play a LARGE part of plant development. ill beta test your led vs my T5...
yes leds are great for low power grows... they still produce a great deal of heat and have the problem of being a single point of light...Inverse Square law applies to tiny LED's too.LED is just too young to be used for production use...by the time led is mature it will be over and plasma will win...
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
Mohican said:
Hi Prof,
I love your science! It would be great if all of the manufacturers would use a standardized spectrum graph. I wonder if UL measures these parameters.

I also wanted to tell you that my Quantum BadBoy 8 Bulb is on its way and I will need to get some bulbs.

Where is the best place to get the bulbs with the built-in reflectors? Have you come across any new bulbs you can recommend?

Thanks for all of the great info and your inspiration.

Cheers,
Mo
Click to expand...
Science is good, standardizing would be great, F* UL, internet is great for finding UVL bulbs aquarium specialty has them! reef wave look em up! Thanks Mo please feel free to hamg about and learn something!
 
pr0fesseur

pr0fesseur

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
Day 44. I was battling gnats for a few weeks, finally got rid of them. if not for those buggers I think they would have swelled up more. Since the gnats have been gone they have been swelling up everyday.. Right now I would say the nugs are the same size as they were under my 1k. they are super frosty so much more than the 1 k. so sticky too. i had to wash my hands with rubbing alcohol after touching them. the t5 definitely out performs a quantum 1000w with a eye hortilux...... They still have a few weeks left. these strains almost double in size in the last week.

View attachment 1896180View attachment 1896181View attachment 1896182View attachment 1896183View attachment 1896185View attachment 1896186View attachment 1896191View attachment 1896192
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Great photos i cant wait to see the weigh in!
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
cyberbiota said:
in addition to the benefits of solid state lighting (dramatically reduced energy use, exact spectral wavelengths matched to the absorption maxima of chlorophyll a and b, no uv, no ir, our lights are straight dc so there is no flicker that disturbs the chloroplast orientation, and no heat directed at the plants, so less water is lost through transpiration) you can control the wavelengths individually to promote foliar growth or to induce budding. We now have a large database of the optimal timing of light, spectral composition for each stage of growth, and it is all controlled via microprocessor in the power distribution box, and modifiable by a user interface that runs on your linux/wintel/mac/iphone/android. Call or email if you have questions or wish to be a beta tester. Http//www.cyberbiota.com

never buy photons you don't need, and your crops cant use!

Peter c, charles, phd
director of research and technology
advanced photobiology laboratory
cyberbiota, inc
http//www.cyberbiota.com
Click to expand...
450-465 deep blue. WTF???????
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Although the plant has fattened up somewhat since last Tuesday, the warm weather here (mid 80s days, mid 70s nights) has all but stopped tric production. We are scheduled for 2 cool days (low 70s) Thursday-Friday, so I am hoping that comes and stays awhile.

Could not really take a good shot of the main cola because it has grown so long that I had to turn it sideways to prevent bleaching.

I took a shot of the entire plant so all can see how wide it is (4ft+)

Enjoy:

IMG_0866.jpgIMG_0863.jpgIMG_0864.jpgIMG_0865.jpg
 
AssDan

AssDan

Member
organicbynature said:
For those looking at bulbs, I like the Flora Sun that I posted a chart for a little while back. Here it is again:

View attachment 1900253

I'm mixing them with Coral Waves (for the 420 and extra IR) right now for side lighting.
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I saw zoo meds at petco this weekend when I was looking at bulbs. All their bulbs have a green spike. I guess it's not that bad if you look at one of these graphs and integrate visually. The area under the curve would give you the energy right? I think that with the red and blue peaks just as high and covering a larger range of wavelengths, it would give a nice spectrum for your plants.

I am right about reading the graphs, right? I hope so. I've been using this logic when looking at the spectral output.


Edit: I looked at this graph again. The y axis only goes up to 40%. Aren't these things usually normalized to their largest peak? The blue and green spikes appear to go.off the page. Which one is larger? By how much? I am not so sure about the bulb anymore.
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
AssDan: Yeah, I would try to get something without the green spike. Have you checked out Wave Point's Coral Wave? This bulb is the shit.. in fact I believe it is the only bulb anyone's found so far that covers the far red spectrum the ATI procolor pr0f uses covers. Probably not as intensely, but still a really good distribution. Look at how little of the output is wasted in green and yellow. And although the red is not a HUGE spike, it is a wide spike, and the gigantic blue spike can only help matters.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/lighting/t5-lamps/wave-point/wave-point-coral-wave-t5-ho-lamp-9246

This is what you want, more than likely.

Here's the spectrum graph right from AS's website:

wp-coralwave_2.jpg

BTW, CIFER!! I forgot about this bulb's red spectrum. This bulb seems to be the far red solution for the time being, although it's not as intense as it could be!
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
PF: Very intriguing!! I am itching to try plasma some day for sure... that looks like a solution that could take care of the inverse square law limitations!
 
AssDan

AssDan

Member
AltarNation said:
AssDan: Yeah, I would try to get something without the green spike. Have you checked out Wave Point's Coral Wave? This bulb is the shit.. in fact I believe it is the only bulb anyone's found so far that covers the far red spectrum the ATI procolor pr0f uses covers. Probably not as intensely, but still a really good distribution. Look at how little of the output is wasted in green and yellow. And although the red is not a HUGE spike, it is a wide spike, and the gigantic blue spike can only help matters.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/lighting/t5-lamps/wave-point/wave-point-coral-wave-t5-ho-lamp-9246

This is what you want, more than likely.

Here's the spectrum graph right from AS's website:

View attachment 1900602

BTW, CIFER!! I forgot about this bulb's red spectrum. This bulb seems to be the far red solution for the time being, although it's not as intense as it could be!
Click to expand...
Thanks. I will get this bulb for my spectrum after my order comes in. It's much cheaper than the Fiji purple too.
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
AssDan said:
Thanks. I will get this bulb for my spectrum after my order comes in. It's much cheaper than the Fiji purple too.
Click to expand...
No prob man... I would recommend some fiji purps in your mix too if you have the money though, as they both hit significantly different red zones... the Coral Wave spikes at about 780-790, while the Fiji purp's red spike is around 680 maybe. At least according to the chart that is available and floating around.

This site shows a fiji purp graph... keep in mind that it seems to be drawn differently, in a way that's a little misleading and makes it look like there's a lot more "fill" between the spikes.. unfortunately, this is the only fiji purp graph floating around and it hasn't been confirmed.

http://reefgizmo.com/2011/01/kz-fiji-purple-vs-ati-purple-plus/

Just had a thought... does anyone know how these assessments are made? Could one of us buy some sort of meter that will determine the light spectrums provided from an actual bulb??
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
AssDan said:
I saw zoo meds at petco this weekend when I was looking at bulbs. All their bulbs have a green spike. I guess it's not that bad if you look at one of these graphs and integrate visually. The area under the curve would give you the energy right? I think that with the red and blue peaks just as high and covering a larger range of wavelengths, it would give a nice spectrum for your plants.

I am right about reading the graphs, right? I hope so. I've been using this logic when looking at the spectral output.


Edit: I looked at this graph again. The y axis only goes up to 40%. Aren't these things usually normalized to their largest peak? The blue and green spikes appear to go.off the page. Which one is larger? By how much? I am not so sure about the bulb anymore.
Click to expand...
I understand these graphs the same way you do. To determine what percentage of the bulb's energy is being used in a spectral range you look at the area under the curve for that range compared to the area under the curve for the entire bulb output. As you noted, the actual area of green light is quite small (and we want some of that green anyways). I really like how this bulb fits the PAR curve:

florasun_withoverlay.jpg

None of these bulbs are perfect (and we don't even know what the Fiji Purple puts out), but this seems like a pretty solid bulb to me. The Coral Wave is also nice, but not an alternative to this bulb. I see it as a complement, filling in all that 420 (the only thing the Flora Sun is missing in terms of PAR) and adds some far red as well.

While you're paying attention to y-axes, you can note that this overlay uses a different y-axis scale from the spectrum graph (it is showing the percentage of light at that spectrum that is absorbable) - but it shows you how this bulb puts out light in proportion to the efficiency of the PAR curve (except for the 420 range, which can be filled by super actinic in veg and coral wave in flower)
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
AltarNation said:
No prob man... I would recommend some fiji purps in your mix too if you have the money though, as they both hit significantly different red zones... the Coral Wave spikes at about 780-790, while the Fiji purp's red spike is around 680 maybe. At least according to the chart that is available and floating around.

This site shows a fiji purp graph... keep in mind that it seems to be drawn differently, in a way that's a little misleading and makes it look like there's a lot more "fill" between the spikes.. unfortunately, this is the only fiji purp graph floating around and it hasn't been confirmed.

http://reefgizmo.com/2011/01/kz-fiji-purple-vs-ati-purple-plus/

Just had a thought... does anyone know how these assessments are made? Could one of us buy some sort of meter that will determine the light spectrums provided from an actual bulb??
Click to expand...
It was shown earlier in this post that the chart floating around for the Fiji Purple is for a different bulb that is no longer available. There is no chart for the Fiji Purple.
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
organicbynature said:
It was shown earlier in this post that the chart floating around for the Fiji Purple is for a different bulb that is no longer available. There is no chart for the Fiji Purple.
Click to expand...
further clarification...

There is a chart for the pro color.... that is the ATI bulb that is no longer available.

There is, indeed, no chart for the Fiji Purple. The chart that is floating around for the Fiji Purple is actually from:

http://www.nlites.co.uk/growgood/eco-light.htm

and when you click the Bio Tropic 25000K light spectrum:

http://www.nlites.co.uk/growgood/ass...t/1.PURple.jpg

Look familiar?!?!?!? LOL

anyways... yeah... earlier in this thread I had also posted some emails between Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht and myself where he stated that there are no published spectrums for their bulbs. He said that giving their spectrum out would be like Pepsi giving you their formula. Search my posts...
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
AltarNation said:
This site shows a fiji purp graph... keep in mind that it seems to be drawn differently, in a way that's a little misleading and makes it look like there's a lot more "fill" between the spikes.. unfortunately, this is the only fiji purp graph floating around and it hasn't been confirmed.

http://reefgizmo.com/2011/01/kz-fiji-purple-vs-ati-purple-plus/
Click to expand...
See my last post... "It" has been confirmed ;)

AltarNation said:
Just had a thought... does anyone know how these assessments are made? Could one of us buy some sort of meter that will determine the light spectrums provided from an actual bulb??
Click to expand...
Talked about this earlier in this thread as well. Here is a snippet from an earliest post of mine:

Psytranceorgy said:
Wow, I just got off the phone with a company that will rent a spectroradiometer with cosine corrector (pre-calibrated, with included software to install on PC) for a week for $250.00!!!

Would love to buy a bunch of the most interesting bulbs and test them myself! Not to mention test and optimize for a final 8-bulb vegetative/flowering configuration... Totally worth the $250.00... includes shipping!

http://www.shop.spectrecology.com/Rental-VIS-spectroradiometer-with-cosine-corrector-R2.htm The guy mentioned that their equipment was used in an article in September 2011 issue of Popular Science... I'll have to check that out.

Also worth checking out these guys http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/ They sell reasonably priced meters and sensors!
Click to expand...
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Just to give some more information... I have actually called and spoke with those guys at apogee instruments... and well, they really can hook you up with a sweet-ass setup for your grow area for a relatively inexpensive price tag.

This is the actual page you wanna look at:

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/

You just wanna get the appropriate meter, and sensor(s)

and again at $250.00 for the equipment pre-configured and shipped to you for your use for a week... that is not bad! (talking about that other link above...)
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
For the record, when I said "it hasn't been confirmed" I was stating that it is not necessarily the actual graph for the fiji purp. If you're saying it's been confirmed that it ISN'T the right graph, then I stand corrected, but I wasn't saying it necessarily was the right graph at all, i was simply saying that there is a lot of doubt that it is the right graph and that it is quite possibly NOT the right graph. I was attempting to warn what you said, basically.
 
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