LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

[Psytranceorgy]

Contacted KZ to try to get the Fiji Purple spectrum today. They responded saying their bulbs are the best for coral and do not share the spectrum outside the company. LOL I don't understand why someone would keep that a secret, sure seems weird. Anyway, couldn't even get one of the peak nm out of them. Is there a way to break the peaks down with some sort of light meter?

Originally posted this information on Page 64 of this Thread. Re-posted it again on Page 124 of this Thread. Here you go again:

http://www.shop.spectrecology.com/Rental-VIS-spectroradiometer-with-cosine-corrector-R2.htm <-- This company that will ship you a pre-configured spectroradiometer for your use for a week for $250.00. Nice!

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/index1.html <-- This company that sells reasonably priced meters and sensors!

I talked with both companies, they are legit and ready to help you.

Maybe they don't know?

They know. Here is a direct quote from Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht that was posted along with some other responses from KZ on Page 55 of this Thread:

We dont have that, sorry. I have only exact parameters in nm but that i can not give for advertising.

Mit freundlichen Grussen / Best regards

Thomas Pohl

 

[falcon223]

I got an old light meter. It was my uncle's, he was a photographer in WW2. I wander if I can measure PAR. with it. I don't think I can tell the Peck colors, but it will show how much light is putting out. I imagine a light spectrograph would be vary expensive. I will have to goggle it.

 

[Calrt]

Here is a conversation with Sun Pulse about their MH bulbs that a buddy was raving about, I decided to ask a few questions as I am still trying to learn about different peoples ideal spectrums. This is what I got:


Great info and they look like great bulbs! Do you have
the spectrum graphs for each bulb so I can make a choice on which ones
to buy based on this rather than the temp?

Thanks in advance,




Hello,

There is a spectral graph comparison in the Tech Info section in the
SunPulse vs. HPS white paper there.

Basically, the graphs you are used to seeing are done in laboratories by
the lamp companies with very specialized equipment. Growers don't have
any of the same equipment. The spectral graph you get is created by your
lamp, your ballast and your fixture. Change any one thing, and you
change it all. Dim an electronic ballast and the spectrum changes again.

Plants just want the Sun and our lamps are made for living things. The
color temperature is just a marketing tool to help growers know which
lamp to buy. If you just want one all around light for all phases of
growth, I'd get the 4k. Having a compatible ballast for our lamps is
important too.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Dan
SunPulse Lamps



On 12/1/2011 11:29 PM,
Each of your bulbs with different temperature have a different
spectrum, correct? I know the NM graphs are not entirely accurate due
to the reasons you state but feel it is a good start or ballpark. I run
other lights and want to combine your bulbs and don't want too much
overlap for different stages of growth.

Thanks,




Subject: Contact Form.
Date: Sun, Dec 4, 2011 10:17 am

Hello,

Since the NM graphs aren't an accurate way to measure light for the
growers, I just won't provide them. BS is BS, and NM graphs are BS.

If you "mix" our lamps with other lamps in your garden, expect "mixed"
results. Uniformity of light gives you better uniformity in the garden.
I expect you'll have plants at very different heights, with very
different results from zone to zone.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Dan
SunPulse Lamps



On 12/4/2011 4:13 PM,

Ok, what would be an accurate way to measure the light coming off of a
bulb? I am trying to educate myself about lights and the answer that
it is BS does not help me much...



Date: Thu, Dec 1, 2011 9:27 pm

The light coming off the lamp, intensity that reaches the leaf is one
element. The color of the light, or spectrum, is another.

Footcandles are a good way to measure light intensity. At around 5500FC,
in nature, photosynthesis stops. Watts per meter squared is also a good
reference for measuring incident energy at the leaf. Footcandles are a
little more practical for hobbyists.

We are the only lamp company that makes lighting for living things. All
other lamp companies make light for the human eye. We're plant people
who make lighting for plants.

Our recommendations for which color lamp to buy are on the side of every
lamp box.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Regards,
Dan
SunPulse Lamps> >

 

[organicbynature]

Originally posted this information on Page 64 of this Thread. Re-posted it again on Page 124 of this Thread. Here you go again:

http://www.shop.spectrecology.com/Rental-VIS-spectroradiometer-with-cosine-corrector-R2.htm <-- This company that will ship you a pre-configured spectroradiometer for your use for a week for $250.00. Nice!

http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/quantum/index1.html <-- This company that sells reasonably priced meters and sensors!

I talked with both companies, they are legit and ready to help you.



They know. Here is a direct quote from Thomas Pohl @ Korallen Zucht that was posted along with some other responses from KZ on Page 55 of this Thread:

We dont have that, sorry. I have only exact parameters in nm but that i can not give for advertising.

Mit freundlichen Grussen / Best regards

Thomas Pohl

Thanks for posting this again, I think it's good to keep this information fresh in the thread for new people.

This is why I find it confusing that they don't share spectrum information outside the company. If a competing company wanted to find out the spectrum of the Fiji Purple, they would just test it the same way they create graphs for all of their bulbs. The only ones who can't easily test the bulbs are we, the consumers. So why don't they want us to know they spectrum output of the bulbs?

 

[Psytranceorgy]

So why don't they want us to know they spectrum output of the bulbs?

Yeah well this is what Thomas Pohl @ KZ had to say:

All spectrum graphs that you told me are selfmade by the combanys.
That its not interestet for somebody. A real Spectrum Information is a
list with quantytis of every nm and with that list you can make the
same tube by another producer without any problems.
So go to pepsi and ask about the real intgrediants, when you have that
let me know

I wish you a good time.



Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards

Thomas Pohl

 

[Psytranceorgy]

Of course I had to respond:

LOL Tom you really are something else

All I am looking for is the range of light that is provided by your lamp. No secret formulas. No conspiracies. Nothing about HOW you provide the range. No long list of every nm produced so I can make the same tube...lol That is preposterous.

My application is agricultural, and requires blue light in the 420-460 nm range, and red light in the 630-660 nm range (i.e. growing tomatoes). I am simply trying to confirm/deny how effective your light would be for this application... Whether you like it or not, there is a spectrum graph that can be found all over the Internet that is commonly accepted by people all over the Internet as the Korallen Zucht Fuji Purple spectrum:

(http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html)

But even the author of the article himself has no idea where the graph came from So it doesn't do me a whole lot of good!

I figured why not just ask the company that makes the bulb! Little did I know I would get this kind of response Every other company out there publishes this information. You say this information is not of interest for somebody... quite frankly you are wrong.

Can you at least let me know if that spectrum is accurate or not? There is no way someone could look at that spectrum and go and manufacture a bulb that can exactly reproduce it... let's get real. The graph is attached, if you can just please tell me if it is accurate or not, I will be able to make a purchasing decision.

ALAS, I never got any further responses... GG

 

[Redoctober]

What a bunch of jerkoffs! I can't believe that they wouldn't just give you a simple yes or no. Your email to them was perfect: well thought out, reasonably stated, and direct. I am wondering if threatening them by telling them that since they refuse to provide the information, you, as the owner and proprietor of a large (unnamed) aquarium website, will be forced to pull their bulbs and alert all of your associates to do the same, as you are very influential in the aquarium reef community. It probably will have no effect but it might be a last ditch effort.

You made a very good point too when you said that just because the spectrum is published, it doesn't mean that another company can go right out and duplicate it. After all, just because you might have a list of ingredients for sea urchin ceviche, doesn't mean that you are going to be able to make it taste as if it were prepared by Iron Chef Morimoto.

I wish we were able to find out which bulb that graph is actually for. Does anyone have any possible leads on that? Do we have the boys down at the crime lab working in shifts?

 

[AltarNation]

Seriously... the responses from Sun Pulse and KZ are pretty disrespectful. Haha. I might not buy either of their lights from now on. I can't stand it when reps act like the customer doesn't matter... who do they think buys their products? LoL.

 

[AltarNation]

I wish we were able to find out which bulb that graph is actually for. Does anyone have any possible leads on that? Do we have the boys down at the crime lab working in shifts?

Actually, yeah, it's been posted a couple times. Organicbynature (or maybe it was psytranceorgy, i forget) is probably shitting himself that he has to keep posting the same info over and over again, lol. It's back some pages. I don't know exactly where. but yeah, there is another bulb that is not available for sale that sports the EXACT same graph.

P.S. Was that an impromptu Lebowski reference? :0)

 

[hyroot]

Yeah well this is what Thomas Pohl @ KZ had to say:

All spectrum graphs that you told me are selfmade by the combanys.
That its not interestet for somebody. A real Spectrum Information is a
list with quantytis of every nm and with that list you can make the
same tube by another producer without any problems.
So go to pepsi and ask about the real intgrediants, when you have that
let me know

I wish you a good time.



Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Best regards

Thomas Pohl

There were 2 different specials on msnbc or cnbc , one with coke and the other was pepsi. On both they said their recipes and how they have changed them over the years.

 

[hyroot]

Send this to KZ


2.3. The Supposed Pepsi-Cola Recipe

This is supposedly the original Pepsi-Cola recipe. It was submitted to a court in the USA when Pepsi-Cola filed for bankruptcy in 1923.

Ingredients:

7500 lbs. Sugar - standard confectioners 12 gal. Caramel - burnt sugar colour Up to 1200 gallons Water 12 gal. Lime Juice 58 lbs. Phosphoric Acid - S.G. 1.750

Flavourings:

½ gal. Alcohol 4 fl oz Cinnamon Oil 6 fl oz. Lemon Oil 2 fl oz Nutmeg Oil 5 fl oz Orange Oil 2 fl oz Coriander Oil 1 fl oz Petit Grain *

*Note: Petit Grain is an essential oil extracted from the leaves and twigs of the lemon tree.

Pepsi-cola originally contained pepsin, an enzyme that aids digestion. Like coca-cola, pepsi-cola was first sold at soda fountains and it now probably contains gum Arabic as an emulsifier.

Source: www.sodamuseum.com

 

[Redoctober]

Actually, yeah, it's been posted a couple times. Organicbynature (or maybe it was psytranceorgy, i forget) is probably shitting himself that he has to keep posting the same info over and over again, lol. It's back some pages. I don't know exactly where. but yeah, there is another bulb that is not available for sale that sports the EXACT same graph.

Shit, I have to go back and check that out. I hate when people do that. Therefore by transitive property, I must hate myself...but that's hardly a revelation! That totally sucks that it's not for sale. I think someone must have put that graph on the internet just to tease everyone.

P.S. Was that an impromptu Lebowski reference? :0)

It absolutely WAS! Well spotted!

Too bad about the bulb...it really tied the room together

hyroot Send this to KZ 2.3. The Supposed Pepsi-Cola Recipe This is supposedly the original Pepsi-Cola recipe. It was submitted to a court in the USA when Pepsi-Cola filed for bankruptcy in 1923. Ingredients: 7500 lbs. Sugar - standard confectioners 12 gal. Caramel - burnt sugar colour Up to 1200 gallons Water 12 gal. Lime Juice 58 lbs. Phosphoric Acid - S.G. 1.750 Flavourings: ½ gal. Alcohol 4 fl oz Cinnamon Oil 6 fl oz. Lemon Oil 2 fl oz Nutmeg Oil 5 fl oz Orange Oil 2 fl oz Coriander Oil 1 fl oz Petit Grain * *Note: Petit Grain is an essential oil extracted from the leaves and twigs of the lemon tree. Pepsi-cola originally contained pepsin, an enzyme that aids digestion. Like coca-cola, pepsi-cola was first sold at soda fountains and it now probably contains gum Arabic as an emulsifier. Source: www.sodamuseum.com

HAHA!!!

Apparently both KZ and ATI are owned by the German lighting company Sylvania; maybe we should go over KZ's helmet (yes that's from spaceballs) and email Sylvania. Maybe they'll be less dickish about it...but most likely not.

http://reefbuilders.com/2011/01/27/sylvania-t5-kz-fiji-ati-purple/

 

[organicbynature]

Only the best RIU threads result in someone emailing the Pepsi recipe to a lighting company.

 

[AltarNation]

It absolutely WAS! Well spotted!

Too bad about the bulb...it really tied the room together

ROFL... ...and this dude PEED on it!

 

[AltarNation]

Only the best RIU threads result in someone emailing the Pepsi recipe to a lighting company.

Hahahahaha

This thread is comedy gold at this point, thanks guys.

 

[hyroot]

Here is another site that uses the same chart for KZ fiji purple. i found through Redoctober's link. they got it from Practical Coral Farming too. They say that ther'e not sure of its validity either.

http://reefgizmo.com/2011/01/kz-fiji-purple-vs-ati-purple-plus/?utm_campaign=1128&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter

 

[okthanks2]

Well, I just got some Fiji Purple tubes in yesterday and tried them out. They are by no means very purple at all! They are mostly BLUE. I would compare them to an Actinic/Blue mixture. If there is any red in them at all I would be surprised. And if there is, then 660nm must be out of the visual spectrum BECAUSE I DON'T SEE THAT MUCH RED AT ALL.

Anyway, I just got some UVL Red Suns today and WOW, that is one AMAZING bulb. I know it puts out the 633nm wavelength, which is pretty important for photosynthesis as far as I have heard. I took these bulbs and mixed them with the UVL Super Actinics and together they looked REALLY NICE AND PURPLE. So with only the UVL super actinic and UVL Red Sun, you get some far out amazing purple. So it is lacking in that 660nm range. So what is next. I really can't say I like the Fiji Purple. So far, nothing is growing because I found out my soil Ph'd at 7.5! WTF I've been using Fox Farm soil now for 3 years with no problems and now they are sending out batches of soil with f'd up ph. I switched to Dr. Earth today, ph'd the soil at a nice 6.8. Perfect. Hopefully now we'll see some growth and be able to tests these bulb combinations. I sure am curious what a Super Actinic and Red Sun ONLY combo would do.
Peace

 

[PetFlora]

LMAOROF! Many Germans can be likened to AI. They are programmed to not think outside the box. If he gets high, it's probably from an inorganic pill (again AI)

Of course I had to respond:

LOL Tom you really are something else

All I am looking for is the range of light that is provided by your lamp. No secret formulas. No conspiracies. Nothing about HOW you provide the range. No long list of every nm produced so I can make the same tube...lol That is preposterous.

My application is agricultural, and requires blue light in the 420-460 nm range, and red light in the 630-660 nm range (i.e. growing tomatoes). I am simply trying to confirm/deny how effective your light would be for this application... Whether you like it or not, there is a spectrum graph that can be found all over the Internet that is commonly accepted by people all over the Internet as the Korallen Zucht Fuji Purple spectrum:

(http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html)

But even the author of the article himself has no idea where the graph came from So it doesn't do me a whole lot of good!

I figured why not just ask the company that makes the bulb! Little did I know I would get this kind of response Every other company out there publishes this information. You say this information is not of interest for somebody... quite frankly you are wrong.

Can you at least let me know if that spectrum is accurate or not? There is no way someone could look at that spectrum and go and manufacture a bulb that can exactly reproduce it... let's get real. The graph is attached, if you can just please tell me if it is accurate or not, I will be able to make a purchasing decision.

ALAS, I never got any further responses... GG

 

[Psytranceorgy]

I wish we were able to find out which bulb that graph is actually for. Does anyone have any possible leads on that? Do we have the boys down at the crime lab working in shifts?

pr0f mentions the company on PAGE 57. I caught the reference and expanded upon the meaning on PAGE 62.

The company is nlite and it appears they are defunct. They made a bulb called PURple and published that graph as the spectrum. The spectrum graphs for their other bulbs were also published, and all the graphs share the same format/style.

I would personally use the ZooMed Flora Sun or Coralife Colormax as a "purple" base bulb that provides red spectrum coverage further out than the UVL Red Sun @ 633 nm. There are a couple of others that I would use before buying a Fiji Purple as well... The AquaticLife Roseate's are advertised having their peak at 650 nm, for example, and the Aqua Medic Plant Grow also looks like a great candidate... I posted about some other 'puple' or 'plant growth' type bulbs on Page 63. I am sure there are more...

AquaticLife Roseate http://aquaticlife.com/
Aqua Medic Plant Grow http://www.aqua-medic.com/
ATI Purple Plus http://www.atiaquaristik.com/en/
Coralife Colormax http://coralifeproducts.com/
Current/TrueLumen Freshwater Flora http://www.current-usa.com/
Giesemann Aquaflora http://www.giesemann.de/
JBL Solar Ultra Color http://www.jbl.de/en/
Wave Point Color Wave(same as Red Wave) http://www.wave-point.com/
ZooMed Flora Sun http://www.zoomed.com/

The above all have a similar spectrum (yes, some look better than others...for sure). God (and Thomas Pohl) only knows if they are similar to the KZ Fiji Purple's spectrum... but I suspect that they are...

Of course you still want to pick up your UVL Red Suns and use them! They are unique in their spectrum, and you definitely want some of it!

 

[Psytranceorgy]

I am wondering if threatening them by telling them that since they refuse to provide the information, you, as the owner and proprietor of a large (unnamed) aquarium website, will be forced to pull their bulbs and alert all of your associates to do the same, as you are very influential in the aquarium reef community. It probably will have no effect but it might be a last ditch effort.

LOL well, I already told him (the truth) that I am a humble tomato farmer... hehehe Someone else will have to play the influential aquarium reef community card...