Chopper fly overs?

[potpimp]

I used to own an insulation company and we used a Hughes Probe Eye thermal imaging unit. Thermal imaging does not work on the temp. I works because of differential. If a plant absorbs heat energy from the sun and evening falls and the air begins to cool, it cools, along with every other plant. Of course the imaging device sees the plant, but unless there is significant temperature difference (differential) it will all be one big blob. UC saying that it works by filters seems to be very plausible to me. I studied spectrophotometry in college. There is absorption and there is reflectivity. They can cancel out, through absorption, the wavelengths of light from the ultraviolet to the infrared, admitting only the small range of frequency (i.e. "wavelength") that the plant gives off.

 

[jaag102882]

just imagine flying over some land and all you can see is the blue from pine trees or something with low temps... then all of a sudden bright green all over your radar... first hand experience i know its tomatoes or marijuana... ive seen it many times...

 

[wheels619]

again its not the plants providing the heat source. its the sun. without the sun ur kinda fucked all around if ur looking at plants. that was the point right to prove plants dont produce their own heat signatures right? the sun is the one providing the heat correct? so problem solved new topic. lmao.

 

[jaag102882]

this is how thermal imaging works... the focused light is scanned by a phased array of infrared-detector elements... the detector elements create a very detailed temperature pattern called a thermogram... it only takes about one-thirtieth of a second for the detector array to obtain the temperature information to make the thermogram... this information is obtained from several thousand points in the field of view of the detector array... and before you say anything I happen to have a degree in biology and my masters in physics... i happen to own and use the technology... and i also know that better technology exist...

 

[jaag102882]

everything contains a certain heat signature... the sun only makes it more prominent...

 

[wheels619]

u guys enjoy. im way over this thread. im not a scientist and im pretty sure most of u arent either. so why discuss something that none of us know 100 percent about? feel free to continue im out. happy new years.

 

[Undercover Cop]

yeah i forgot what the point I was even arguing was. For cops to look at your house and use any type of enhanced imaging, they need a warrant (they can look at it all day long but they cant use it in preparing a case against you... nothing says they wont take what they see then turn and focus on getting evidence against you other ways) If its in plain sight, you're shit on toast. The whole point is that they cant look through your walls and see the 20 1k watters you're using, then use it against you. Yes the technology exists to see heat signatures though objects, and you can detect VERY minute temperature differences between plants using imaging from an aircraft. Technology exists that would impress the biggest tech geeks out there. The point was that you dont have to worry about it (in the US) unless its visible in plain sight, which would be spotted using direct line of sight imaging, in which case then again you're shit sandwhich.


What can get you fucked is your neighbors. If you have one room in your house that is 85-88 and the rest of the house is 68, that one window could fog up or if its cracked and you're venting out it, you could have a fog/smoke effect blowing out in the morning or certain times of the day... you're neighbors may not like you and may call in an annonymous tip about something unusual at your place. Then theres probable cause to start checking you out.

 

[potpimp]

I was reminded of two things: Word is that the Navy SEALs have technology to acquire a man's heartbeat through a wall. Also, I was told by my best friend, a former CIA operative, that the reason they outlawed lead in paint was because it kept them from looking into your house if they needed to. He said "You don't really think our government is concerned about some ghetto kid eating paint chips do you?"

 

[wheels619]

had to stop back in before i left. i call bullshit. tell ur cia buddy to quit blowing smoke. lead kills. and it wasnt our government that started the process of making it illigal in the first place. our gov ended up making it illigal but they werent the ones initiating it.

and heart beat sensors? really someone might have been playing to much call of duty. altho it is possible our gov even the shadow side of it would never deploy such pricey equipement on our own turf unless it was a national threat. in which case we wouldnt even know about it till we see the bright flash and then thats it. fyi. they say in the military to get to tho lowest oint possible to help with the possablity to survive. ie drainage ditch or ravine but if ur close enough would u rather go out flipping the shock wave off in style or die of long painful aganizing radiation poisoning?

 

[potpimp]

I'm not here to convince anyone; it's just what I heard. But I do know that the government could not care less about deaths. Are they doing anything about the 438,000 people a year that die in the U.S. from tobacco? How about the 75,000 from alcohol. How many people have you known that has ever had lead poisoning? My friend is legit and I've known him for well over 20 years.

 

[Undercover Cop]

undercover cop... nothing you just said makes sense... everything on the face of the planet has a specific heat signature this is basic science... the reason i know this is bc my family also farms and we are using thermal technology through our irrigation systems now to let us know when our crops are drying out... and i mean a real farm not a pot farm... and look up something called f.l.i.r. uav... they are now tracking ppl indoors based on higher heat signature readings based on the type of lights they are using... this technology is the same technology that power companies use to find down power lines... just so you know we also use it to detect disease in our tobacco crops as well... when the tobacco lets off more heat we see a mosaic virus...View attachment 1959059 just to further prove my point... the plant on the left is a normal tomato plant... the one on the right is dying and is under watered... def noticeable under thermal... you should do some more research before you speak... and please dont tell me i dont know what im talking about bc we use the equipment on our farms...

omg i was sooo over this but...

thermal imaging... to let you know when your crops are drying out (differences in moiture content amongst your plants will cause different rates of transpiration and thus different temps, you prob also take readings from the soil and can view moist/vs dry areas=temp differeces between wet/dry)

UAV...I was in the persian gulf in 99 when my embarked predator detachment was the first ever to launch a UAV from a ship, identify and designate a land based hostile target (Iraqi Surface to Surface missile installation) which was then destroyed by a missile launched from another vessel, which we guided remotely.

FLIR... I used to work for Raytheon who makes the Hughes Probe Eye that POTPIMP has used (now called the Raytheon ThermalEye) which Ive sinced used on vehicles for use on patrols or in search and rescue applications. (granted its different technology, and much more advanced tech exists, this is the tech/as well as FLIR that is employed by most law enforcement agencies, who focus on tracking human targets who jump fences in the night) The feds would have the good shit, but are they looking in legal states for small time grows???
Power Lines... c'mon you can use any number of pretty basic techniques to find a freakin downed power line.
Virus... A virus on plants will give a different signature because it is a foreign object, tiny as it may be, its something in the diseased plants that is not in the healthy plant. But what you're showing, as you state the one is dying and underwatered, shows that its the difference in moisture content between healthy and infected plants causing different rates of transpiration and temperature.

my experiences dont mean that they make me an expert on any particular subject, Im just showing that Im no doof either thats just trolling to post BS. The whole point was what someone needs to worry about, and it isnt a man in black aiming his camera at your roof looking for your lights through your ceiling. Its about not being a dummy and growing outside where your neighbor can see it, report you, then the task force puts you as point # 52 on their map of places to go look at tomorrow. And NOT to worry about the amount of heat you're creating being spotted by police looking for grows (because it requires a warrant) but be aware that your neighbors/mailman/neighborhood asshole may notice and report it as suspicious

Not saying you dont know what you're talking about, just may be unaware of what may or may not be in use by LE or able to legally be used by LE. (LE buys their stuff right outta catalogues, stuff available to the general public. Except for weapons and accessories restricted by the ATF, almost all the toys that LE use are available to Farmer Joe with money...Farmers will prob have more money than most city/county budgets allow for toys anyways, worried about State Police or Feds flying a helicopter over your little pad???)

Calm down and look at yer tobacky with yer thermal cam. Looks like you got some Mosiac virus to worry about)

 

[Undercover Cop]

had to stop back in before i left. i call bullshit. tell ur cia buddy to quit blowing smoke. lead kills. and it wasnt our government that started the process of making it illigal in the first place. our gov ended up making it illigal but they werent the ones initiating it.

and heart beat sensors? really someone might have been playing to much call of duty. altho it is possible our gov even the shadow side of it would never deploy such pricey equipement on our own turf unless it was a national threat. in which case we wouldnt even know about it till we see the bright flash and then thats it. fyi. they say in the military to get to tho lowest oint possible to help with the possablity to survive. ie drainage ditch or ravine but if ur close enough would u rather go out flipping the shock wave off in style or die of long painful aganizing radiation poisoning?

Why cant I like this???

 

[jaag102882]

this is the united states of america... our gov't does not give a shit about warrants... if they want you all they have to do is label you a terrorist or say your supplying them and you will never be heard from again... our country sucks... i am worried about everything from my neighbor to the guy with the little black camera aimed at my house... there are no limits to what our gov't can and will get away with... so keep telling yourself that its all about what they know and i will continue to believe what i do know...

 

[Undercover Cop]

just imagine flying over some land and all you can see is the blue from pine trees or something with low temps... then all of a sudden bright green all over your radar... first hand experience i know its tomatoes or marijuana... ive seen it many times...

"the way ppl are getting away with outdoor grows in my area is tomatoes... they let off the same heat signature as a marijuana plant does"

hmmm so which is it? you have experience searching out marijuana grows within tomato crops? they have the same heat signature huh?


You're confused, FLIR detects infrared wavelengths, and while Infrared and indeed all light is a form of heat/energy, FLIR detect the reflection of specific wavelengths as it bounces off an object. Thermal imaging will create a picture based on actual temperatures and differences between objects. The picture can be either low def black and white or in vivid color by assigning a color to each fraction of a temperature difference (like in the Predator movie). Thermal can see through objects = illegal without a warrant. FLIR requires direct line of sight (aka plain sight) and measures reflected wavelengths, NOT the actual object being seen. When FLIR is used, the picture can be color enhanced and filtered, and sure it looks like whatever is glowing "hot" on screen, but you cannot see that "hot" object through a cold object using FLIR, you will see the reflection off of whatever the FLIR sees first... even glass, you can stand behind a pane of glass and you cannot be seen, the glass will appear a uniform opaque texture. You cannot use FLIR through thick cloud cover or fog, or in complete absolute darkness without some source of ambient light present (not specifically visible light, ambient IR from stars can be enough, but most have a strong IR emitter mounted in the same unit, ala your night vision handycam)
FLIR and Thermal are different, but are available combined, along with other techs to make really fuckin scary powerful stuff... not necessarily legal for LE to use against civilians without a warrant.
come on Im having fun now, what else?

 

[jaag102882]

and now i understand why ppl dont use these sights anymore bc info is lacking in evidence and ppl are such assholes when it comes to someone elses information... we all have our opinions... some just happen to be based on more factual info... no need to be ignorant towards ppl for adding input... seems like even in the pot community ignorance shows its face... and dont worry im def done commenting... especially seeing how someone who probably doesnt have a degree is telling me about things that i concentrated on while achieving two degrees... i understand you might have some experience but thats no reason to trash what someone else has to say... and with a name like undercover cop you seem like a d-bag anyway...

 

[Undercover Cop]

this is the united states of america... our gov't does not give a shit about warrants... if they want you all they have to do is label you a terrorist or say your supplying them and you will never be heard from again... our country sucks... i am worried about everything from my neighbor to the guy with the little black camera aimed at my house... there are no limits to what our gov't can and will get away with... so keep telling yourself that its all about what they know and i will continue to believe what i do know...

Wow, you should be really afraid. You need to build a panic room right now, somewhere in Canada.

 

[Undercover Cop]

and now i understand why ppl dont use these sights anymore bc info is lacking in evidence and ppl are such assholes when it comes to someone elses information... we all have our opinions... some just happen to be based on more factual info... no need to be ignorant towards ppl for adding input... seems like even in the pot community ignorance shows its face... and dont worry im def done commenting... especially seeing how someone who probably doesnt have a degree is telling me about things that i concentrated on while achieving two degrees... i understand you might have some experience but thats no reason to trash what someone else has to say... and with a name like undercover cop you seem like a d-bag anyway...

You told me that nothing I said made any sense at all. I clarified for you. You mis-understood the uses of the different tech and the legality of its uses in prosecuting MJ grows. Most of what you said (at times) was indeed correct, but would not be a concern to 99.5% of growers (most dont have any sizeable grow in their back yard that isnt legal) the concern was the freakin DEA spotting your HPS through the roof.

Without getting specific to where exactly I live... In the large city and county in AZ that I reside, I know for a fact that they do not own any thermal imaging equipment for their aerial units. Ive been in two of their helicopters and they demonstrated how in rural areas with little ambient light and cloud cover, they need to use their spotlight (adjusted to a very wide 180deg throw, not a spot beam) to provide light for their FLIR unit to produce a more usable image. They put up the air units to assist ground patrols city wide... one chopper up for 2hrs max, while another flight crew re-fuels and prepares to go back up when they land.
sure it could be different around the country, but its not gonna be local PD or county mounties who are looking for you, Feds maybe but are you so big that they'll pick you outta all the others around (especially in a state w medical mj?) think about the odds and relax.

 

[jaag102882]

Most federal courts have ruled that thermal imaging does not constitute a search of a home. In U.S. v. Fields (W.D.Wisc., 94-CR-13-C; magistrate's report, June 9, 1994; dismissed July 8, 1994) however, the court decided otherwise:


Thermal imagers don't see through walls in the sense that a telescope sees through a window. But the devices provide visual images of varying clarity that allow the operator to draw, or claim to draw, conclusions about what is happening on the other side of the house wall. ... So, it is disingenuous for the government to argue that thermal imagers do not reveal what is happening inside of a home (Slip op. at 28-29).


Buckman discussed State v. Kozic (NJ SuperCt [Gloucester Cty], 92-03-129-I), in which he defended Edward Kozic and argued that thermal imaging evidence should not have been used to obtain a search warrant. In 1991 as part of Operation Green Merchant the DEA obtained the customer list of a mail order company from which Edward Kozic had bought indoor plant lights in 1989. In October of 1991, Detective John Silver of the New Jersey State Police began surveillance of the Kozic apartment. Based on the thermal imaging evidence, Silver swore in his affidavit for a search warrant that Kozic was operating an indoor growing operation. Buckman attempted to get the evidence suppressed, but the motion was denied and Kozic was convicted. Kozic refused to appeal the decision and was sentenced to one year probation and six-month suspension of his driver's license.


In another case to involve thermal imaging, U.S. v. Ford (CA11, No. 92-5181, Sept. 12, 1994), officers used the technology to find an extraordinary amount of heat coming from the defendant's mobile home. The officers surmised that the defendant was operating an indoor marijuana-growing operation and was able to obtain a search warrant based on the thermal imaging information. The court found that the technology could not reveal "intimate details" of the mobile home, and is comparable to the use of dogs to sniff for drugs in luggage.

these are just a couple of cases in which fourth amendment rights were violated... there are ways around everything...

 

[jaag102882]

cant argue facts

 

[Undercover Cop]

I guess I should have stated "in my area its illegal w/o warrant" and I know that not all jurisdictions are the same. But I wont claim to be a lawyer. So Im out finally