2nd Grow... Better equipeed and educated... Seeking input...

[NewGrower2011]

Okay. So for starters, let's break down the gear I've got available to work with...

1 - 4 x 2ft T5 SunBlaze with Veg bulbs
1 - 6 x 4ft T5 BadBoy with Veg bulbs
2 - 8 x 4ft T5 BadBoy with Bloom bulbs
1 - 6" Inline Fan and 6" Carbon Filter - used as 'scrubber' last time - no ducting yet.
2 - 2'x4' Trays (Botanicare) - bought this go-around for 'drip tray' use - future ebb/flow or variation...

Alot of other misc. stuff you'd expect... Panda film, BlueLab Ph/TDS meter... etc...

The room I primarily intend to dedicate is a closet-like space (deeper than wide unfortunately)...
The space is approx. 5' by 9' and at the furthest point back is a covered window. The window
unfortunately can't be used as a stealth exhaust due to the risks being that it sits directly over.
my main entryway! The room is adjacent to a bathroom, so in the attic space above there would
be options to somehow tie into existing exhaust, though I doubt it's a 6" duct and would need
to utilize dampers somehow - this is out of my area of expertise for sure.

The room will have access to a dedicated 20a circuit I had installed while remodelling... A little
forethought can go a long ways... It's also wired with the adjacent bathroom's circuit as well so
a little more juice could be robbed - but from a shared 15a circuit... So not much...

I went with the seperate 2'x4' approach on the trays and bloom lights for versatility in the layout so that
I could take the entire back portion and layout a 4'x4' area or along one wall end-to-end for a 2'x8' layout.
Sure it cost a little more... but should pay off in the long haul...

I would like to incorporate a veg area in this space if possible. One that would be proportionate to the space
I have for flowering and if space permitting maintain a couple mothers. If I can't combine the veg space, O
expand the flowering area would be the next approach.

One initial thought was to use a divider in the room somehow (I have lumber/pandfilm/etc)... but I'm not
sold on the layout. I also have some wire shelving (adjustable stuff - bakers rack) but the depth is too much
to fit into this room unless it was placed to the back... towards the front it would stick out into the door opening.

For those who enjoy this type of debate... please join in... I'm looking to put this together quickly while I've got
some free time... Then once all is ready and the crap work is out of the way... the fun work can begin...

 

[NewGrower2011]

Additionally, my current stock is growing in soil. If there were an effective means to switch mid-grow to hydro I wouldn't rule that out.

I would consider moving to a ebb/flow where the final transplant allowed them to do this. I currently planned on just using 5 gal. grow bags
with a soil mix... I did a little reading on using a flood tray with soil but it sounds like it's not worth the effort. Let me know if you think otherwise.
To move into an ebb/flow setup I wouldn't need much more than to purchase a resevoir or use one of the many tupperware/rubermaid containers I picked up thinking
I would do a DWC variant at some point. With the various configurations of DWC, such as recirculating &/or using the 'under current' approach where the fluids are
pulled rather than pushed through each node in the setup, and being unsure of which to go with - I decided to stick with soil for simplicity... perhaps that wasn't the best choice...

 

[FootClan]

First thing id do is figure out what kind of ventilation you are going to have thats most important and should be worked out before anything else is, aside from electrical...... Are you going to have a "open loop" or "closed loop" system... If you go open loop you will NEED a proper exhaust system that means air must come into the grow space then it must leave the grow space...... So if you cant use your window has an exhaust outlet that means you must eather cut a hole in the ceiling or remove and cap off the centeral air/heating outlet from inside the attic....Can you get to the attic?? is this a house or apartment?? are you in the top floor or bottom?? If you cant get in the attic or use the window you will have a big problem ......

 

[NewGrower2011]

Attic is accessible. And timely response... I just put the 2 8x4ft T5's in there and let them go. They raised the ambient temp. by about 12 degrees. This area is currently closed from the home's AC system as it was an 'added' closet. The window and any air gaps/leaks into the surrounding walls is the only existing ventilation. I planned on adding some passive inlets and it looks like I'll have to use the 6" inline to exaust the room.

Exhaust.. the question is always to where... I'm not keen on exhausting out the window for the reasons I mentioned above. So exhausting back into the attic would be the first normal thought - but I've read that if you do this you're inviting yourself to a mold party. The humidity from the room would get into the attic and if not exhausted from the attic could lead to mold. I'm not sure what exact setup my attic has but it's a home built in the last 8-10 years so I think there's a ridge. I'm not keen to modifying my roof at this time... I'd really like a solution that needs minimal mods to the house.

So exhausting back into the living space itself might be good. We need a whole home humidifier in winter time anyhow! Summer would suck, but a dehumidifer can assist in that department perhaps.

So what I'm thinking is this: having passive inlets in the ceiling that are just boxed in between the joists and 'straddle' the doorway... so 2 'holes' inside the space and 2 opposing 'holes' outside of the space - all covered by standard looking grilles. They could be connected with ducting or just build an air-tight 'box' to enclose the space between the joists and end-cap it all... The choice of ceiling placement is stricly to keep the appearance in line with the other HVAC of the home. I don't know if I'd need anything more than passive here... hopefully not to avoid needing any electrical.

As for the placement of the carbon filter... everything I read says up high and towards the back of my space would work best in my setup. The down side is it eating up a little vertical grow space.

If I were really being hard-core about it, I suppose I could build another air-tight box above the space, accessible via a large grille in the ceiling - and then using light-hangers mount the carbon filter inside the box where you could raise/lower it to change it out, then use simple flanges to connect the box between the filter/fan and the ducting that would then lead back out to the living space... perhaps being Tee'd so that the exhausts could be distributed to two outlets (hoping to diminish exhaust noice in the living space)... The box could also be sound proofed... win-win right? That's a little further than I'd like to go 'today'... but within the realm of possibilities... that would also aid in the stealthiness if I were to have to dismantle the room for some reason...

 

[NewGrower2011]

I think where I speak of Tee'ing would be where a 'junction box' would come into play. If I understand correctly, an oversized box provides a muffling effect.
Can anyone confirm that angle as well?

I've seen a few of the tubular DIY designs that call for - in my case- 8" / 6" reducers and a piece of 8" duct with acoustic foam.
So in my scenario I could easily incorporate both the junction/muffler box since I'd need a Y or a box either way and still use the mufflers on the end of each leg of the exhaust back into the living space... would that be ridiculously overkill?

 

[NewGrower2011]

General question... which raises the humidity more - hydro grow or soil grow?
Within hydro I suspect there's considerable differences between the techniques as well.

I'm starting to wonder how much of an issue humidity might present once plants get larger.

 

[FootClan]

how ever you do it just remember that you bring in fresh c02(air) and then your MUST remove old hot AIR ... i dont like the idea of sending it back into your home i think your way better off sending it up into your attic.... If you want you can send it up into your attic then add a booster fan and more ducting to help further direct the air closer to the attics passive outlet vents...

In my case i just let it go directly into my attic and the attic has its own passive vents and since the humidity in my grow room is 45%-60% i dont really have a big humidty problem in the attic or any mold....Another idea is to Tie into your bathroom vent from inside the attic... Take your bathroom fan ducting and replace it with 6" ducting and redirect it to your grow room instead of your bathroom .....Then just exhaust your bathroom directly into your attic ether way you MUST get rid of that old air and replace it with fresh air....

Your other choice is to go "closed" or " sealed" room and there is no exhaust or inlet..... But for this you would need Co2 bottle/reg/monitor/sensor/ AC/Heater/Dehumidifyer........

 

[FootClan]

noise is another factor....I like to use a bigger fan then i need so i can run it at slower RPM and still have enough CFM to cool my lights and exhaust my room..... Bigger fan bigger ducting equals LESS noise.... I also use insulated ducting and put a 4ft duct silencer on the back side of my 8" inline exhaust fan.... I also put up sound dampining foam on the walls of my room(My grow tent is in a spare bedroom) .... Between the foam on the walls and the insulated ducting and the silencer its pretty quite...Its more quite then my regular bathroom vent fans.....

 

[FootClan]

just remember when you bend the ducting or make the air travel around a corner you are causing your air flow to be effected alot.....Even one 90 degree bend as a big effect.....

 

[NewGrower2011]

Seems I need to get to some attic crawling and explore the options. If I can safely vent into the attic I'd go that route. I just can't get a mold infestation from this 'hobby'... ya' know?

So, let's paint this picture... what humidity inside the grow room is considered optimal? Since I'm thinking I might need a dehumidified inside the grow space to reduce the humidity of
what area is vented into the attic. This will address some concern since I'm somewhat regulating it...

Gotcha' on the bends... One reason why I considered making an enclosure up in the ceiling with a grille to let air flow into it from inside the room
--results in one less 90 elbow since I don't need ducting to a hood in a T5 setup... then it would be staight shot to a junction box if doing what I originally proposed.

One good thing...I have a buddy who use to do some HVAC sheet metal work... he should be a wiz with any ducting challenges I throw at him...

With exhausting into your attic... did you find any noticeable effect on your heating/cooling... I imagine it works "for you" in the winter somewhat and - if lucky - in the summer being that it's the attic
space and that hot air rises... maybe it doesn't pull your A/C efficiency down too bad... so long as that heat is escaping...

Also - for the creative DIY minded folks... I have a buttload of PC fans at my disposal. Even severak server-grade ones including squirrel cage blower fans.
On my passive inlets... I could 'strap' a small fan apparatus to suck in some intake air if needed... Just need to do a little homework on the electric using
one of the many power supplies I have available as well....

 

[FootClan]

Ok so best Humidity is between 45% -60% Mines around 45% right now......

Yes your sheet metal box sounds like a great idea......

What im trying to tell you is that you dont have to exhaust your air directly into your attic.. You can extend ducting into your attic and run it all the way to your attic vents.This way you are not just blowing your humid air into your attic.... So if you are worried about humidity in your attic then just get in there and connect some 6" ducting to that sheetmetal box your talking about making add a booster duct fan and you can just exhaust up into your attic through ducting then have it exhaust out your attic vents.....this way you dont have to worry about humidity in your attic make sense??

Howerver i have noticed no mold in my attic from simply exhausting it directly into the attic like i do but thats me my humidity is only 45% here so for me its not an issue but if you are really worried about do what i said and run the exhaust all the way to your attic vents and let it flow out there...... make sense??

Has far is Pc fans go there pretty useless IMO i dont even bother with them unless you got a small shoe box grow.... Id get some 12" ocsilating fans a good 8" or 10" inline fan and maybe a small 4" intake fan if you really need it..

 

[NewGrower2011]

Yeah. The PC fans (servers actually) are true squirrel-cage blowers... industrial shit. One of the servers I can rob
parts from requires 2 people to lift it... comes with handles that bolt onto it while racking/unracking... THAT type of gear!

So I went to the Lowes to get something for the passive inlets - return air grilles... could be placed above door on each side
and just 'mushroom' them together... but the old lady prefers the look of the existing central air's return grille which is on
the ceiling. Which aligns with what I found...

While at Lowes looking at the grilles... I noticed in the 2 largest sizes (i.e. the 14"x20" I believe it was) they had grilles that swung down
and included the ability to house a cheap old 1" air filter! BONUS! They aren't the cheapest option though.

I bought 2 of them for the inlet... one in the ceiling outside of the door... the other on the inside... then connected via some channel made from plywood...
That gives me a fairly large passive air intake and if it's "too" much somehow, I can use magnetic covers or similar to cover a portion and restrict airflow...

That still leaves the exhausting to be addressed... and I think I've settled on exhausting into the attic and just running ducting up as close to the ridge vents as
possible. If that proves inadequate... time to add better attic exhaust... maybe spring time... winter will hopefull buy me a little time there...

I have considered another of these return air grilles with the swinging door and using it as the access point to the 'box' that would hold the carbon air filter
and ultimately the 6" fan... with the 'box' serving to help silence the fan... doing the normal things like insulating a box surrounding the fan and using rubber bushings...

And here I thought this was just going to be a quick & cheap project... ha!

 

[Beta420]

I would avoid venting to your living space. Too much potential for organics and contaminants to cycle through. You don't want to be blowing that crap all around your place. Take a look at that bathroom fan set up. I assume is a standard 4" duct. You could cut it and add a 4" --> 6" reducer ( in this case an increaser) and then straddle that or add a 6" T to connect your grow room exhaust line. Then above that reduce back to the 4" run that goes out the roof. It will look like you LSTed your duct work. Lol. drop in a booster or vortex Always better to pull with a fan. If you do that remember you cant use flexible foil tubing. Youll need rigid. All availalbe at lowes home depot etc. Get yourself some foil tape to seal the joints. Funny but duct tape doesn't work well on ductwork.

 

[FootClan]

I would avoid venting to your living space. Too much potential for organics and contaminants to cycle through. You don't want to be blowing that crap all around your place. Take a look at that bathroom fan set up. I assume is a standard 4" duct. You could cut it and add a 4" --> 6" reducer ( in this case an increaser) and then straddle that or add a 6" T to connect your grow room exhaust line. Then above that reduce back to the 4" run that goes out the roof. It will look like you LSTed your duct work. Lol. drop in a booster or vortex Always better to pull with a fan. If you do that remember you cant use flexible foil tubing. Youll need rigid. All availalbe at lowes home depot etc. Get yourself some foil tape to seal the joints. Funny but duct tape doesn't work well on ductwork.

lol i already said all that your too late......

 

[Enzogrowspot]

Thats so 27 seconds ago......lol

 

[Beta420]

lol i already said all that your too late......

Saw that lol. Just trying to help a brother out cause mine kept him from releasing air into his attic all together. Put it out the bathroom vent run not passive attic. No special boxes to build or install or filters to buy or change. Cheaper cleaner quieter better. Ive seen same (helped build it actually) and worked great with no risk of mold. That stuff is way bad but to each his own.

 

[FootClan]

Saw that lol. Just trying to help a brother out cause mine kept him from releasing air into his attic all together. Put it out the bathroom vent run not passive attic. No special boxes to build or install or filters to buy or change. Cheaper cleaner quieter better. Ive seen same (helped build it actually) and worked great with no risk of mold. That stuff is way bad but to each his own.

Na i said that too....... "Another idea is to Tie into your bathroom vent from inside the attic... Take your bathroom fan ducting and replace it with 6" ducting and redirect it to your grow room instead of your bathroom"

 

[NewGrower2011]

I'm hoping to get something put together quickly since the room's future tenants are anxiously awaiting their relocation.

If I can't get up into the attic to do the full deal - whatever I do settle on - I wonder if in the interim I can just install the one air
return grille that is slated for use as a passive intake into the ceiling and just vent the entire room into the attic for the short term.

That would at least buy me more time to figure things out. Plus I'm the type who likes to draw/plan out their materials/cuts and make
sure I've got "a plan" before I get up in the attic - I'm not a fan of doing attic work... lol...

Also - opinions on this - the room is freshly painted in a Killz latex primer that was laid on heavy along with Killz white high gloss paint
which makes the room very bright. I have panda film... do you think I should still hang it or save it for use where I build partitions only?

I figure the reflectivity difference isn't that high (right?) and that the only other real benefit is that when foliar spraying the panda film
could be tore down & replaced easily enough... then again the wall would just need wiped down/sterilized and at worst repainted...

Any tips/tricks on hanging the film? I'm thinking to avoid a million staple holes in my walls using some type of think wood strips (got them already)
and use small trim nails here & there on the strips... then stapling the film to the strips... at least running the strips along the top and perhaps
another horizontal strip mid-way along the wall...

 

[NewGrower2011]

Also - perhaps (if done well) using the film along with taping all the seams would give better odor control? That is of a big concern and
if it really presented any advantage I'd just go for it on that basis alone I believe...

 

[Beta420]

Na i said that too....... "Another idea is to Tie into your bathroom vent from inside the attic... Take your bathroom fan ducting and replace it with 6" ducting and redirect it to your grow room instead of your bathroom"

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Except you continued with "then just vent your bathroom into your attic" ... which is flat out really bad idea. Any doubts as to why just google attic mold or follow the link:
http://www.americanverified.com/portfolio/329/
my way tied grow room exhaust to the existing bath exhaust and ran both out the roof vent. You're just telling him to swop one source of moist stinky air with another and dump it into his attic. [/FONT]