AeroJunkie's High Pressure Air-Assisted Hydro-Atomized Aeroponic System (HPAAHAAS)

[Trichy Bastard]

No, just trying to figure out how the air gets injected at the same time as the nutes

AJ is using AA=Atomized aero. Where he has in addition to the usual HPA setup also a compressor and air tank along with atomizing nozzles that mix the air and pressurized nutes and spray them together. The compressed air is injected simultaneously with the nutes...

 

[PetFlora]

Thanks TB. Well hear this. I just adjusted my Aquatec 8800 (fyi a 1.5 allen type tool for mine + no resistance, it turned easily) and wow do I have pressure. Nutes are finally filling the chamber. I think I have just overcome a huge obstacle to getting repeatable results, leading to the oft elusive (to me) root hairs. So a big shout out to those who showed me how. Funny but Reptile Basics did not know either.

I theorize that the pressure I have now simulates what AJ is doing. And IMHO, we are all doing AA (Atomized Mist)

 

[aerojunkie]

Thanks TB. Well hear this. I just adjusted my Aquatec 8800 (fyi a 1.5 allen type tool for mine + no resistance, it turned easily) and wow do I have pressure. Nutes are finally filling the chamber. I think I have just overcome a huge obstacle to getting repeatable results, leading to the oft elusive (to me) root hairs. So a big shout out to those who showed me how. Funny but Reptile Basics did not know either.

I theorize that the pressure I have now simulates what AJ is doing. And IMHO, we are all doing AA (Atomized Mist)

I agree PF, we are all doing AA, in my system I used compressed air and an accumulator but what you might find interesting is that an accumulator is convenient in HPAA but it's not completely necessary in AAAA (Air-Assisted Atomized Aeroponics). I know that Fatman actually uses siphon nozzles from delevan. Rather than send pressurized fluid to the nozzle you can either gravity feed your nutes or siphon them from the res. I do believe the manufacturers that make my nozzles have a siphon design as well. I personally decided to go with a booster pump because A - it allows more control imo, and B - I have a dozen or so of them.

 

[PetFlora]

I was thinking same thing. That's why I asked HOW? I am still having trouble getting one of the plants properly misted. Hopefully, another twist on the pressure screw will resolve that. Air Pressure should too, or a small computer type fan built into the side wall. It would need to be on a timer though, or else it would dry the roots. Hmmmmm

AJ I would love to see a tutorial on this. Can I come over?

 

[aerojunkie]

I was thinking same thing. That's why I asked HOW? I am still having trouble getting one of the plants properly misted. Hopefully, another twist on the pressure screw will resolve that. Air Pressure should too, or a small computer type fan built into the side wall. It would need to be on a timer though, or else it would dry the roots. Hmmmmm

AJ I would love to see a tutorial on this. Can I come over?

Sure! Ill fire up the grill and we can all kick back with a cold one and discuss techniques. I'm always looking for a reason to BBQ.

Have you thought about adding another mist head in the area lacking?

 

[Mike Young]

PF, I was actually pondering an idea to use a computer fan to click on at the same time my solenoids open, to create some turbulence in my chambers for better coverage. I was thinking of fitting the fan to a box, and fitting a 2" or so duct into the chambers. I don't know for sure if I'm going to try it, but I think if you were, running your fan off the timer, the same as your mist cycles, would be just about the right amount of time. Food for thought.

The big thing stopping me is dirty air & contaminants getting into the chamber.

 

[aerojunkie]

PF, I was actually pondering an idea to use a computer fan to click on at the same time my solenoids open, to create some turbulence in my chambers for better coverage. I was thinking of fitting the fan to a box, and fitting a 2" or so duct into the chambers. I don't know for sure if I'm going to try it, but I think if you were, running your fan off the timer, the same as your mist cycles, would be just about the right amount of time. Food for thought.

The big thing stopping me is dirty air & contaminants getting into the chamber.

HVAC filters are cheap and easy to prevent debris from entering anything. Plus you can use a synthetic mesh that will hold up to moisture and easily cut it to size.

http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Materials-Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Filters/h_d1/N-5yc1vZaq3n/R-202446710/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

 

[Trichy Bastard]

PF, I was actually pondering an idea to use a computer fan to click on at the same time my solenoids open, to create some turbulence in my chambers for better coverage. I was thinking of fitting the fan to a box, and fitting a 2" or so duct into the chambers. I don't know for sure if I'm going to try it, but I think if you were, running your fan off the timer, the same as your mist cycles, would be just about the right amount of time. Food for thought.

The big thing stopping me is dirty air & contaminants getting into the chamber.

Also- they sell waterproof pc fans, recommend paying the extra few bucks. One came with my fogponic setup. I've even thought of using some sort of bellows type device that slowly draws air in between mistings, and then quickly flattens out with some sort of gravity and blows air in through some sort of wider air lines surrounding the nozzles. Kind of like a tiny motor on gear drive that winds a pulley with an attached cement block, then the clutch releases, dropping the cement block and quickly depresses the bellows accordian. Perhaps it would be easier to use AA nozzles at that point lol...

The centrifigul fans that look like snail-shells would likely be best if one were installed behind each mister, and set to come on synchronized with the mistings, but for a few seconds longer to get up to speed and circulate/refresh the air. Guaranteed introducing outside air/even just ventilation dries the pod alot. I believe this may be why petfloras roots didnt exit the puck- they were getting air-pruned. I set one small pc fan to gently blow a light amount of air in my pod constantly, and my roots quit growing outside my netpots. I also went into flower about the same time, so that could have been part of it.

 

[PetFlora]

Sure! Ill fire up the grill and we can all kick back with a cold one and discuss techniques. I'm always looking for a reason to BBQ.

Have you thought about adding another mist head in the area lacking?

I live in S FL. If you are within 100 miles, fire up the barbie

I have played with more heads (the roots get too wet, requiring longer pause. IMHO, a major key is shortest cycles possible), but I think the problem was strictly amount of pressure not allowing the mist to completely fill the chamber. Since cranking the pressure up late yesterday I think I have it covered (NPI)

 

[PetFlora]

I thought about that, but I think it would take more time (than ~ 2-3 seconds) for the fan to reach velocity. I think it's a matter of figuring pod volume vs # mist heads + pump/air pressure. My 33g Rubbermaid pod is long, so I have a dual head in the middle, aiming toward opposite ends. The previous lack of pressure, combined with 2 seconds wet cycle (keep in mind without an accum, I have ~ 0.5 second before reaching full pressure) prevented the mist from blasting all the way to the farthest plants. Thanks to "cranking that bitch up", I think I solved it.

PF, I was actually pondering an idea to use a computer fan to click on at the same time my solenoids open, to create some turbulence in my chambers for better coverage. I was thinking of fitting the fan to a box, and fitting a 2" or so duct into the chambers. I don't know for sure if I'm going to try it, but I think if you were, running your fan off the timer, the same as your mist cycles, would be just about the right amount of time. Food for thought.

The big thing stopping me is dirty air & contaminants getting into the chamber.

 

[PetFlora]

I never tried the fan, due to added difficulty/cost to have it go on a few seconds prior ~ 20xs per hour 24/7.

My problem was when plats are less than 12" tall, keeping the bulb close caused the top of my Rubbermaid to get quite warm. This heat radiated into the pod, drying to roots

 

[aerojunkie]

Well its been a while I have been dealing with some issues with my veg chamber. For one reason or another the roots of newly transplanted plants are browning and drying out. I increased my cycle time to significantly saturate the root balls to prevent any losses, but the tips immediately start to brown and wither. The strange thing is that the canopy looks great other than a little bit of stretching. They have been recovering a little and I am seeing new root growth but there is quite a shock sustained by the individual clones. It was very bad at first and there is less of an issue now, I'm beginning to think there was perhaps some element in my used accumulator that attributed to the issue. I did flush it quite a bit but perhaps not enough. I have since ran over 3-400 gallons of water through it to give it a good flushing. I am however still seeing similar effects which lead me to believe that there my also be some sort of air pruning going on during the 2 sec my nozzles are activated. I may eventually double the nozzles in this chamber and reduce cycle time by 1/2 in order to more evenly distribute the air flow into the chamber.

If anyone else has any ideas as to what it could be, I'm open to suggestions. Blazing this trail alone is wearing on me.

BTW, I my H2O2 level is @ 1.5-2ppm and this is not a root rot issue. I would love to hear from other AAA growers if at all possible.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

Well its been a while I have been dealing with some issues with my veg chamber. For one reason or another the roots of newly transplanted plants are browning and drying out. I increased my cycle time to significantly saturate the root balls to prevent any losses, but the tips immediately start to brown and wither. The strange thing is that the canopy looks great other than a little bit of stretching. They have been recovering a little and I am seeing new root growth but there is quite a shock sustained by the individual clones. It was very bad at first and there is less of an issue now, I'm beginning to think there was perhaps some element in my used accumulator that attributed to the issue. I did flush it quite a bit but perhaps not enough. I have since ran over 3-400 gallons of water through it to give it a good flushing. I am however still seeing similar effects which lead me to believe that there my also be some sort of air pruning going on during the 2 sec my nozzles are activated. I may eventually double the nozzles in this chamber and reduce cycle time by 1/2 in order to more evenly distribute the air flow into the chamber.

If anyone else has any ideas as to what it could be, I'm open to suggestions. Blazing this trail alone is wearing on me.

BTW, I my H2O2 level is @ 1.5-2ppm and this is not a root rot issue. I would love to hear from other AAA growers if at all possible.

Logically, I believe it could only be too much air. Either there is an air leak in the chamber itself, or the AA nozzles are set to mix too much air- perhaps you are trying to spread the mist over an area suited for more nozzles as you mention. Atomizer seems to be in the aero void, perhaps tree farmer will take notice and chime in?

 

[PetFlora]

I came across a utube video by a company making a HPAAHAAS. Their system is patent pending

Sorry I did not save it

 

[Trichy Bastard]

I came across a utube video by a company making a HPAAHAAS. Their system is patent pending
Sorry I did not save it

I saw it: Mike posted it last month or so- it was just another wrong HPA unit... I'm afraid they'll never get it right comercially save Atomix which in turn filed bankruptcy....

 

[dickkhead]

wish I had answers for ya. But id agree with TB prob too much air hopefully TF will chime in and start participating in these threads more often!

 

[Trichy Bastard]

wish I had answers for ya. But id agree with TB prob too much air hopefully TF will chime in and start participating in these threads more often!

If tree farmer never posted again, he has still already contributed more to the community than just about anyone... He's already told us what we need to get started, so I suppose he doesn't have much to say until we've taken full advantage of what he's already given... I think he reads the threads when he has the time, and still chimes in when he's really needed. Plus forsakenlion already asked all our aero questions be directed to himself instead, now's his big chance .

 

[aerojunkie]

TF did get back to me on this issue, There are currently so many variables that even he was not 100% sure where to start. I am grateful that he took the time to contact me about it.

It is still quite a strange situation because its almost like the plants are immediately shocked but once they recover they start producing roots again. The roots however, are quite thick and healthy prior to placing them in the second chamber but once transplanted they thin out by at least 50% and continue to grow. They are looking better now that they have had a chance to adjust but I still don't know why they are shocked being that they are going from one AAA chamber to another AAA chamber.

I really need to post pics but to be honest my roots are quite embarrassing to say the least. Its like, you know you need to see the Dr about that rash, but when it comes time to drop trousers you immediately start second guessing yourself.

 

[PetFlora]

I too have some embarrassing roots, BUT, damn the plants have hung in there. I am not adding compressed air beyond the aquatec 8800, which is misting much better after I increased the pressure. I was taking pics yesterday, but the camera battery needed recharging. will post today.

Frankly, I am shocked that these clones are still alive. They have been through hell and back, due to a combination of pump pressure being too low + inside the mist heads they were missing the pressure valve, which is clear, and hard to see unless you know what you are looking for.

The 3 straggly roots belong to the single clone photo. There are actually more roots but they are stuck together. While they appear smooth, they actually have serrated barbs all along the length. Once that got sorted, all clones began to recover and develop new leaf sets. Amazing.

 

[Trichy Bastard]

TF did get back to me on this issue, There are currently so many variables that even he was not 100% sure where to start. I am grateful that he took the time to contact me about it.

It is still quite a strange situation because its almost like the plants are immediately shocked but once they recover they start producing roots again. The roots however, are quite thick and healthy prior to placing them in the second chamber but once transplanted they thin out by at least 50% and continue to grow. They are looking better now that they have had a chance to adjust but I still don't know why they are shocked being that they are going from one AAA chamber to another AAA chamber.

I really need to post pics but to be honest my roots are quite embarrassing to say the least. Its like, you know you need to see the Dr about that rash, but when it comes time to drop trousers you immediately start second guessing yourself.

I hope you figure it out Aj... Gees, don't be shy posting... We're mostly less advanced than your setup, and I don't think a single person here is really judgemental, the whole point of these threads are to share knowledge and improve. We know full well that you're not impressed with the current results, but perhaps we can all learn from it. To be honest it's nice looking at someone's perfect results, but it makes me more comfortable with my own failures to see others also go through the same, and I learn alot more from them. Petflora is a good example of being quite humble, he posts the good, bad and the ugly, and I feel I learn just as much what to do, as what not to do from it. I certainly don't think he's a lesser person for posting brown roots at times, and doubt anyone else does either. I think the only time I get somewhat judgemental is when someone isn't humble, or refuses to consider the knowledge and advice of others, and then posts some ugly roots and brags how awesome they are- lol... Of course we're all in pursuit of the perfect roots, but it's not a contest between eachother, but with each person and themselves. To be honest- I am considering starting an HPA issues thread, perhaps in that context we can all feel comfortable showing our issues, and can all learn from them. The only thing stopping me is that I have a feeling all the soak-ponics LPA aero crowd will start chiming in, not realizing we're in a totally different category.