Doggie's nuts

[bkbbudz]

I have done some research on this, many other forums, and google. I cannot find a definative reason for the seemingly outrageous price for these seeds. Can anyone enlighten aside from the obvious profit answer?

 

[JustAnotherHead]

I have done some research on this, many other forums, and google. I cannot find a definative reason for the seemingly outrageous price for these seeds. Can anyone enlighten aside from the obvious profit answer?

It's sheer stupidity. $800 for some Bubblegum seeds? Really. How these guys remain in business is a mystery to me.

 

[bkbbudz]

It's sheer stupidity. $800 for some Bubblegum seeds? Really. How these guys remain in business is a mystery to me.

Thanks for the reply. But, again I know the price is high i would like to know if there is a specific reason. Genetics? Breeeding? Does Mother Ganja personally go into their lab and bless each seed?

 

[bkbbudz]

Bump!! Anyone?

 

[JustAnotherHead]

Bump!! Anyone?

No offense but do you expect golden buds or some kind of special high. It's a gimmick. Those seeds are for growers that drive Ferrari's and Lambo's. Then when they are bored of growing after a couple of weeks and forget about it they avoid negative reviews. A seed would have to literally blow my hard cock before I paid $800.

 

[NoSwag]

Honostly I have no clue to why the Doggies nuts seeds are so expensive. All I've seen in person though is DANK, ​you should ask Kevin Murphy, I know he knows whats the low low on them seeds.

 

[bkbbudz]

No offense but do you expect golden buds or some kind of special high. It's a gimmick. Those seeds are for growers that drive Ferrari's and Lambo's. Then when they are bored of growing after a couple of weeks and forget about it they avoid negative reviews. I seed would have to literally blow my hard cock before I paid $800.

No offense taken...I am not even considering spending that kind of cash on beans unless I know a definative reason why I may want too. Hence the post.

 

[bkbbudz]

Honostly I have no clue to why the Doggies nuts seeds are so expensive. All I've seen in person though is DANK, ​you should ask Kevin Murphy, I know he knows whats the low low on them seeds.

Thanks dude, I'll do that.

 

[JustAnotherHead]

Thanks dude, I'll do that.

Here's a thread from some local UK guys talking about Doggies Nuts. NOT POSITIVE. Guy said he spend $1500 on some mixed sativa doms and got a bunch of crap he couldn't smoke. $1500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f10/doggies-nuts-1554/

 

[Gastanker]

I got an A in one of my business classes going with that strategy. Instead of selling 1,000,000 beans for $1 each you could sell just one for $1,000,000... Chances are most people wont spend that much but statistically out of a large enough sample size at least one person will. And if you get lucky two might. Luckily for me computer algorithms can't tell that $1mil is way too much for a shoe...

 

[JustAnotherHead]

I got an A in one of my business classes going with that strategy. Instead of selling 1,000,000 beans for $1 each you could sell just one for $1,000,000... Chances are most people wont spend that much but statistically out of a large enough sample size at least one person will. And if you get lucky two might. Luckily for me computer algorithms can't tell that $1mil is way too much for a shoe...

It's downright legal thievery. BKbudz, I'd rather send you some of my TGA Subcool beans for free than see you throw away thousands on bunk gentics. Plus the TGA beans for $40 a pack will give you better quality and quantity.

 

[cannabutt]

Its beyond me. Are they any good?

Some breaders seads are expencive, which is cool if your minted

 

[canna_420]

Their Tree of life was wicked gear. But `I would not have paid £280 for 10 fems


I think the price was because noobs used to find them first on google. Trust me i know go back 6 yrs ago they dominated google.

I also eared a rumour that Breeder Steve was behind alot of it



"Do you realy think an F2 or hybrid is going to be better or worth more than the true originals?"


Over priced nirvana like seed i say

 

[Rizzo00]

you better get more than a BJ for $800!! lol maybe a BJ everyday for a month

 

[Sunbiz1]

DN has traveled the world, and spent countless hours obtaining what were thought to be extinct genetics. One of their "employees" was even held for ransom by a Pygmy tribe while obtaining original black African beans. They had to pay 500K to get the guy back, then his wife sued DN. So now their pricing reflects the numerous attorney fees being generated.

LOL!

 

[Jogro]

It's downright legal thievery. BKbudz, I'd rather send you some of my TGA Subcool beans for free than see you throw away thousands on bunk gentics. Plus the TGA beans for $40 a pack will give you better quality and quantity.

If you WILLINGLY pay $300 for something worth $50, that's not thievery, its stupidity.
Nobody took anything from you by force or broke the law with that sort of transaction.

To answer the question, here are some of my posts from the "expensive seeds" thread:

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/498669-expensive-seeds-2.html#post6838985

In marketing, there is something called "The Smirnoff effect" (after the vodka of the same name).

Its basically that people are often willing to pay more for something, just because the asking price is higher, and they assume that they're getting a better product, even if it isn't really true.

The same principle, obviously holds true for things other than vodka.

I've never tried anything from "Doggie's nuts" but I'm still reasonably confident that:

a. They're seeds aren't a million times better than any of the top lines from any number of well-established breeders with strong reputations dating back 10-15 years.
b. They're seeds probably aren't ANY better than a bunch of well known "name" strains, and
c. Something akin to the "Smirnoff" effect is probably at play here.

Anyway, to answer the question, like everything else, seeds are priced based on what the market can bear. Like in any competitive industry, different companies with different products are trying to capture different segments of the market, in part based on pricing. In the seed market, I think there is probably a ROUGH correlation between price and seed quality, though I'm certain its not absolute.

In some cases, breeders can charge top prices for their seeds, because their seeds really are the best possible seeds, meaning high viability seeds leading to high potency, stable strains of excellent quality. In this case, you pay more, you get more.

In some cases, breeders can charge more based on their reputation. For example, some of the breeders who have developed famous or award-winning strains can legitimately charge more for them than the average seedbank or breeder, because they're putting their "brand" on the seeds. Generally these are top-notch lines, though I think there are also a few seed houses out there that are trading on old reputations that may be out of date. IE, they charge a lot for lines that may not be entirely worth the extra cost.

In some cases, individual seeds just cost more to produce. Specifically, if the strain in question is one that takes extra time to flower (say 12 weeks instead of

and has lower than normal yield, then it takes that much more work and energy just to create each seed. Some of the potent Sativa-heavy strains are like this. For example, I believe this is one reason, why the "Jack Herer" strain-type seeds almost always cost more. Its not *just* that the product is so good, but also that it really does cost more to make the seeds themselves.

In some cases, the "Smirnoff effect" may be at play.

Lastly, on "cannabis cup" and other such awards, its been widely alleged that the High Times cups are rigged. I don't know for sure if that's true (though my guess is, yeah, probably), but even assuming there is "fair" judging going on, at least to a large extent the "winners" are subjective. Its also true that lots of breeders don't enter the cups for a variety of reasons, and lots of truly excellent strains never really compete. Ultimately, these "cups" are basically marketing gimmicks to sell seeds (and seedbanks).

Ultimately, you can't cheat the free market.

First of all, the seed market is highly unscrupulous. If "Doggie's nuts" seeds really WERE head and "nuts" above everything else that was out there, you'd have low-life breeders buying their seeds, ripping off the strains, and selling them as their own, only much cheaper. The genetics would get spread around pretty fast, and pretty soon, "Doggie's nuts" would NOT be the only ones with their killer genetics. That's what happened with the true "breakthrough" strains like Northern lights, White Widow, Big Bud, Blueberry, etc. Everyone either stole those and sold them as their own version, or used those as a basis for their own crosses.

In fact, if you look at Doggie's nuts seed lineup, at least half of THEIR strains are just their own versions or crosses of these old standbys! So its really not clear to me why you should spend more money on DN's version of "White widow" or "Big Bud" than you could buying that exact same "name" strain directly from the original strain breeder/inventor.

Next, if Doggie's nuts strains were REALLY the best they'd have developed a strong reputation based on that already, and I simply don't think its true.

I've heard all kinds of smack talked about all kinds of strains, including some pretty serious commentary by some pretty serious growers and smokers, who have tried all sorts of stuff. But I have yet to find anyone claiming that the DN proprietary strains are head and shoulders above all the other "name" strains. In fact, I have yet to find anyone claiming that DN strains are even great in their own right. Maybe that's true, and maybe their stuff actually is pretty good, but since it seems clear that they're basically working with the same genetics as everyone else, and since they haven't developed a killer reputation, I have no reason to think that this company has some magic beans that are better than the stuff that the best name breeders have been putting out for a long time.

Lastly, in true free markets where you can buy any strain you like, the cost of the strain will be roughly proportionate to its quality, supply and demand (in part related to yield and other factors). This is essentially true right now at the California and other legal dispensaries. If you look at the top priced strains there, most of them are OG/Kush variants, including headband, diesel variants, etc. If you go through the long lists of high-priced strains, you'll also find a lot of other "name" strains like AK-47, Blueberry, Herijuana, Jack Herer, Purples, and others. I don't think the Doggie's nuts are even up there at all. If their strains are so great, why not?

So to answer my own question, it looks like Doggie's Nuts hasn't even stabilized its own strains:
Price: $423.98

The Doggies Nuts Seeds Armageddon x Sirius Skunk is an F1 hybrid incorporating NL5, Big Bud and Gaian Haze. The Armageddon x Sirius Skunk is resilient indoors and out; a true all rounder. Its Cannabis Seeds have the uplift of Haze, the energy of Northern Lights 5 and stoning power of the Big Bud. This dysfunctional family creates an offspring that is 50% Gaian Haze, 25% NL5 and 25% Big Bud. All three parents are renowned produF1 hybrid incorporating NL5, Big Bud and Gaian Haze. Resilient indoors and outdoors, it is a true all rounder. Has the uplift of Haze, the energy of Northern Lights 5 and stoning power of the Big Bud. This dysfunctional family creates an offspring that is 50% Gaian Haze, 25% NL5 and 25% Big Bud. All three parents are renowned producers so instead of having the best of one world you have the best of three. Armageddon x Sirius has a flowering period of 7-8 weeks and a yield of 325-1000g/m2cers so instead of having the best of one world you have the best of three. This is the doggen sirius stuff. You'd be barking mad to miss out on it


I think you'd be barking mad to pay over $400 for this mutt of a strain.

Despite the misleading name of "Armageddon x Sirius", by claiming this is an F1, the breeder is saying that this "strain" is actually a direct offspring of a Gaian Haze plant and a NLxBB plant. That's how you get 50% GH genetics and 25% each NL and BB.

In other words, its a simple first generation hybrid of two other commercially available lines, and NOT a stabilized strain in its own right.

If you were to take two of these plants and cross them, you'd end up with a gazillion different phenotypes, many of which would probably be pretty lousy.

Now, for all I know GHx(NLxBB) might well be a great hybrid in its own right, and in fact it probably is, but I think you'd be insane to pay over $40 per seed for it.

For example, for under $250 TOTAL (and possibly a lot less), you should be able to obtain top-quality versions of GH and NLxBB from any one of several breeders.

Plant those two, and cross them, and in roughly three months you'll have literally hundreds of seeds of GHx(NLxBB), plus you'd have genetics of the original true-breeding GH too.

Even worse, I notice that the EXACT SAME HYBRID is being offered by "Pukka Seeds" for $140 **AND** it looks like "Doggies nuts" has directly lifted its ad copy!
http://www.everyonedoesit.com/online...ProductID=3482

Its not clear to me whether DN has outright stolen Pukka's genetics and ad copy, is selling rebranded Pukka seeds with (or without) Pukka's permission, or in fact DN *IS* a branch of Pukka selling the same seeds at a higher price, but whichever one of these things is true, I don't see any reason to buy what appear to be the same seeds from DN that you can buy from Pukka for less than 1/3 the cost!

 

[bkbbudz]

DN has traveled the world, and spent countless hours obtaining what were thought to be extinct genetics. One of their "employees" was even held for ransom by a Pygmy tribe while obtaining original black African beans. They had to pay 500K to get the guy back, then his wife sued DN. So now their pricing reflects the numerous attorney fees being generated.

LOL!

Picturing a frightened guy surrounded by a bunch of shorties in skirts with spears. LOL!!!

 

[STEADY BLAZING]

$8oo is pretty crazy. cannabis cup winners never even pass 100-200 bucks. it cant be that good if it doesnt even have kush in the name lol forget that i will save my money for my lawyer. but it seems nobody really knows 2 much about dn

 

[AHoleNotherLevel420]

its a scam.. unless honestly.. unless the breeders are doing this.. sayyy u have the white widow winning pheno. and u wana make people buy a few packs each to find that winning pheno.... why would u just fem that pheno with itself ? then no1 would need more then 1 pack to get the winning pheno.. so what they could do is .. take any old white widow pheno that's ehhh ok.. but still not the best.. make seeds with the best.. and then sell them at 50 a pack.. so everyone lookin for the winner pheno will spend 100-1000 over the time of growing.. per strain.... this is why I think a lot of noname breeders genetics end up being better then most that u see over the net..? this is all speculation on my part.. but if u think of seeds from a business stand point.. u don't want EVERY SEED to be a winner.. u want like a 1 in 10 reg seeds and 1in 6 fem seeds to be a winner.. but ya iuno that's just me smoking a FAT blunt of AAA quality trees and some finger hash inside haha. its just weird to me that these breeders who have been around for 5-30 years cant make seeds that are F10s .. u don't see shit on the net for sale.. that has been worked for years.. its almost all hybrids and F1s or S1s .. and newbies don't know the difference between Soil and Soilless .. u really think there lookin at seeds that are very well bred an selected? no they grab names they have seen in hightimes.. its all about how much u wana pay to advertise in magazines that will make u more money then anything.

 

[Jogro]

its a scam.. unless honestly.. unless the breeders are doing this.. sayyy u have the white widow winning pheno. and u wana make people buy a few packs each to find that winning pheno.... why would u just fem that pheno with itself ? then no1 would need more then 1 pack to get the winning pheno.. so what they could do is .. take any old white widow pheno that's ehhh ok.. but still not the best.. make seeds with the best.. and then sell them at 50 a pack.. so everyone lookin for the winner pheno will spend 100-1000 over the time of growing.. per strain.... this is why I think a lot of noname breeders genetics end up being better then most that u see over the net..? this is all speculation on my part.. but if u think of seeds from a business stand point.. u don't want EVERY SEED to be a winner.. u want like a 1 in 10 reg seeds and 1in 6 fem seeds to be a winner.. but ya iuno that's just me smoking a FAT blunt of AAA quality trees and some finger hash inside haha. its just weird to me that these breeders who have been around for 5-30 years cant make seeds that are F10s .. u don't see shit on the net for sale.. that has been worked for years.. its almost all hybrids and F1s or S1s .. and newbies don't know the difference between Soil and Soilless .. u really think there lookin at seeds that are very well bred an selected? no they grab names they have seen in hightimes.. its all about how much u wana pay to advertise in magazines that will make u more money then anything.

A couple points here:

Most (probably 90%) of buyers will only buy one pack of a given line to test them out. People do NOT spend $100 for a pack of "award winning" beans, grow them out to find all losers, then decide, hey, let me spend ANOTHER $200-$300 looking for better phenos. It just doesn't happen that way. Instead, what happens is they cut their losses and start posting on the internet about how they got screwed and will never buy another overpriced bean from that company again. If your business strategy is to try and get people to pheno-chase your lines by buying multiple packs, you're probably not going to do well. If you put out crap that's supposed to be great, it will catch up to you sooner or later.

Doggies Nuts, apparently folded as a company, though poster Kona Gold said that one of the workers at Attitude seed bank told him that someone else picked up the name and is working the lines.

Without getting into a rant about it, I think the more sophisticated growers realize that the High Times cannabis cup is mostly about hype and doesn't necessarily represent the best genetics out there, let alone the "best" most suited to any individual grower.

Next point, contrary to popular misconception, plants grown from self-pollinated plants (ie S1 ceeds) ARE NOT genetically identical to the mother plant and most often WILL throw off different phenos. The only reliable exception to this is with true-breeding lines where all plants from that line put out similar phenos. So you can't just take an award winning individual plant, or "clone only" line, self it, and create ceeds that will grow into identical plants. It just doesn't happen that way. At *best* some of the plants you create this way may be similar to the parent, but depending on how hybridized the parent is, it may be precious few. . .only 1 in 100, or less. If it were that easy to replicate superior individual plants into ceed form, then there would be no such think as bad genetics. . .all beans would be awesome.

On F10s, there are plenty of ceeds out there like that, they're just not advertised as such. EG, most of the commercial Skunk, Northern Lights, landrace Afghanis, etc, are inbred this way. Sannie CALLs his Jack "Sannie's Jack F7"; that one is fairly inbred. You can buy a labelled Herijuana F19 from "Da Bean Co" if you like. As you say, most buyers simply don't know the difference between S1s, F1s, inbred lines, etc, to know why they should (or shouldn't) be looking for stuff like this.

IMO, if you're a personal grower working against small plant counts, stability is VERY useful.