Electrical Assistance Needed!

[Mr.McNooby]

I am rigging up a grow cabinet and i have decided on a plan for hanging my lights. I will be using CFLs. Here's a diagram to help visualize my idea.



I am going to rig up a cover to reflect upward light back down, and the whole unit will be suspended with small chains so i can simply raise the lights up or down a few links as i need to.
The Hinges are there so that the frame can butterfly open lengthwise, otherwise it would be impossible to screw in the bulbs because they are so close together.

But how the hell should i wire all these lights together, so that I'm not gonna blow fuses, and so that i don't have 16 individual power cables running out of my box? :/

What I need to know is what gauge of wire should i use, will i need a ballast, or can i get by with even just connecting each side (8 lights) to one cable, thus having all 16 lights wired to only 2 cables i have to plug in.. etc... ??

I am by no means an electrician and don't want to kill myself.. I learned the hard way a few days ago what a dead short is.. I'm just getting the feeling back in my right arm so please, be descriptive and don't assume i should know better, don't skip steps.. I'm looking for someone who either IS an electrician or knows a lot about it to help me with this.. Please

 

[playfulthrills]

taking a stap at this

add the watts of all the lights, devide by 120 to get amps the totle amps cant be more then 15 with EVERYTHING ON THE CIRCUT

so 10 lights @ 100 watts each = 1000 watts divide by 110 = 9 amps

20 lights @ 50 watts each = 1000 watts divide by 110 = 9 amps
1 1000 watt light = 9 amps you cant run 2 on the circut if it 15 amps but you can if the breaker is 20 amps
without blowing the circut

so to run a bunch of lights get a multi strip and plug in 6 lights to it

get an extention cord that you can plus in 2 multi strip s and run 12 lights

 

[SFguy]

WOW... all im sayin man... buy a real light... go for one bulb not like 10.

dnt come by my thread trying to hate either ill delete your ass =) pick up a phone book and call an electrician if thats who ya wanna talk to man... this shit isnt complicated

 

[LSDreamer]

I mean, it is pretty simple what you are looking to do. Head to the hardware store and buy 10 mountable light fixtures, wire needed would be probably, 25 feet MAX of 12-2 or 14-2 wire. Now, Im not saying this is safe, or it will work, I was only an apprentice electrician for 6 months (festival circuit came, I know life choices right >_>). But, I assume you could wire it so that 5 Lights are daisychained together on 1 side to a switch. Then just set the otherside up to a switch and run it the same way. It would be a pretty easy guess and check type job TBH. Now you could even hard wire this into your house if you wanted, not sure your skill. If you acquire all of the parts and get some progress send me a PM, I may be able to help you out along the way.

When you go to the hardware store, tell them you want to add 5 lights to each side of your garage, and you want them each on their own switch, they will be able to tell you how to do it step by step, youtube, google. Like I said, I may be able to help you out. When you are testing it out, plug it into somewhere that has 120v running to it. That way if you mess up it wont hurt, 120v aint bad at all, its a fun tingle, 240v and up though is painful.

 

[mrmadcow]

1st off,US or Europe? different systems,different voltages
next what watt bulbs? like stated above,total number of watts will determine wire size.
does your fixtures have wire leads coming off or wire terminals?
again,as stated above,why so many bulbs? for that large a setup, you could buy a small HPS that would work a lot better.











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[Mr.McNooby]

Ok, to answer the above questions, I'm in the US.

I have eight 23 watt 2700k bulbs and eight 26 watt 6500k CFL bulbs.

The reason i have decided to use these instead of HPS is because they use lower energy, produce less heat, and have no risk of exploding (my cabinet is made of wood), not to mention this combination of lights produces the proper light spectrum, and i specifically have 16 lights in the design because they output 1600 lumens each. 1600 x 16 = 16,000 lumens, which is equivalent to Sunlight. They also have a 10 year life, so I will not have to buy more bulbs for 10 years. Altogether they are 395 watts divided by 110 = 3.59.. so approx. 4 amps. So i should have no problem wiring them all together into one cable.. i think....

This rig will be suspended by small chain.
I am also lining the inside of the cabinet with 3M High Intensity Reflective Material 3930 Which should amplify the light by about 600 times.
http://products3.3m.com/catalog/au/en005/safety/traffic_control/node_9KBJ1KX201be/root_D58K9TX3VWgv/vroot_1VHFWB0XQ3ge/gvel_FR1VTZBFPMgl/theme_au_trafficcontrolmaterials_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html

If anyone has a better solution which maintains a short profile, and produces the proper light spectrum and lumens with low energy cost and low heat, I would love to hear it. But please be descriptive and PROFESSIONAL.

Thanks.

OH and the lights and materials for this cost under $100.. I am looking to keep costs down as well.. So factor that into any suggestions as well.

 

[skunkd0c]

i have to kind of agree with sfguy here, why make things difficult for yourself, with 10 lights and 10 light fittings when you could do this with 1 hid or 2 high power cfls

 

[LSDreamer]

You should be good man, hit me up if you have any questions, I honestly love DIY stuff like this. My first 3 grows were all built off materials I acquired. 40k Lumen veg room, aeroponic grow, dwc grow. Honestly you can get nice results if you spend the time and do it right.

 

[LSDreamer]

Potentially buy yourself a roll of panda paper also. IMO its a bit more durable, easier to clean and it hangs real nice.

 

[Mr.McNooby]

i have to kind of agree with sfguy here, why make things difficult for yourself, with 10 lights and 10 light fittings when you could do this with 1 hid or 2 high power cfls

Yes but i don't have room for huge lights, and HIDs take a lot of power, and produce a lot of heat. My cabinet is only 30 inches wide, 24 inches deep, and about 38 inches high.. So i don't have a lot of room to work with..

Heres some pics:




AND I am still hoping to receive answers to the questions in my first post.

 

[mrmadcow]

The reason i have decided to use these instead of HPS is because they use lower energy, produce less heat, and have no risk of exploding ..... i specifically have 16 lights in the design because they output 1600 lumens each. 1600 x 16 = 16,000 lumens, which is equivalent to Sunlight. They also have a 10 year life, so I will not have to buy more bulbs for 10 years. Altogether they are 395 watts .... OH and the lights and materials for this cost under $100.. I am looking to keep costs down as well.. So factor that into any suggestions as well.

each bulb may produce less heat but when you add them up.... there is a risk of them exploding,not much but multiply it by 16 bulbs. HPS carry about the same risk. again not much but also not multiplied by 16. hundreds of factories use millions of HPS lights -never heard of 1 starting a fire. a 250 watt HPS will throw over 25000 lumens, so light output per watt will blow your CFLs away. read the package again the 10 year life is when the bulbs are used for 4 hrs a day. running 12-16 hrs will ive you a life of 2-3 yrs. a 250 watt ballast kit will run you $50-60 and an air cooled hood will be a little more so you may spend $25 over your $100 limit but you will get alot more light.
heres a 150 watt HPS kit for $60 taht puts out your 16000 lumens

http://www.horticulturesource.com/sun-system-sunlight-supply-sun-system-hps-150w-grow-light-fixture-complete-with-lamp-included-p4655/?osCsid=2edeb2702d77cef64020969269beeb1b
as to your orignal ???, for 4 amps, 16 gauge cord will be fine.just tie all the white wires together & all the black together. if you have terminals, find the 1 that goes to the base of the bulb & wire the white wire to it.it is normally silver colored while the hot(center post) is normally gold colored & gets the black wire.

 

[roidrage152]

I've seen people make good use of vanity fixtures like these will save on a ton of wiring. They come in all different sizes, and ive definitely seen them much cheaper, maybe at a mom and pop hardware place.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202022450/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

and you can double up each socket if you want with one of these:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=light+bulb+splitter&gs_upl=420l2902l0l3009l19l13l0l2l2l0l375l2538l0.4.6.1l13l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&biw=1360&bih=686&wrapid=tlif132692341633610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12357662371314786487&sa=X&ei=oT4XT4S0BIfj0QGlu7zgAg&ved=0CFQQ8wIwAQ#

If I did my math right, you should be able to use 60+ 23watt CFLs on one 15 amp circle. Assuming you are USA and on 110v. At 220v you could do double.

But yeah what the other guys are saying, wiring that many CFLs is not any safer than an HID light, and I have no idea what kind of heat those will put off. If safety is a real concern, maybe consider Flouro options?

 

[Mr.McNooby]

THANKS! Finally someone answers.. I see your point about the HPS lights now.. But do HPS have the proper light spectrum. Their lumens output are great, but if it's 4500 Kelvin, all the lumens in the world won't mean shit cuz it's not the right spectrum of light.. Know what i mean?... I'll look into that website you linked a little more when i have more time.. Nice site, thanks for the link.

Now, in the space I'm using,, should i try to cram two of those HPS in, or stick to just one?.. I have 4 120mm pc fans and a 250w power supply to vent heat out, so that isn't a big concern..

And should i stick one 2700k HPS and one 6500k HPS in the box together?.. I have heard from people to switch them for veg and flower, and then I've also heard that both red and blue spectrum are needed throughout the entire growth, so I'm a bit confused.. people seem to be all over the map when it comes to growing techniques.. :/

 

[roidrage152]

They do make HPS bulbs that provide proper spectrum for veg/flower, but those tend to be pretty pricey, though easier to work with, no switching of bulbs. Another issue with that is I don't know what kind of wattage variety they have on those. The route I would go is switchable ballast and 1 MH, and 1 HPS bulb. Switch them at appropriate times.

THANKS! Finally someone answers.. I see your point about the HPS lights now.. But do HPS have the proper light spectrum. Their lumens output are great, but if it's 4500 Kelvin, all the lumens in the world won't mean shit cuz it's not the right spectrum of light.. Know what i mean?... I'll look into that website you linked a little more when i have more time.. Nice site, thanks for the link.

Now, in the space I'm using,, should i try to cram two of those HPS in, or stick to just one?.. I have 4 120mm pc fans and a 250w power supply to vent heat out, so that isn't a big concern..

And should i stick one 2700k HPS and one 6500k HPS in the box together?.. I have heard from people to switch them for veg and flower, and then I've also heard that both red and blue spectrum are needed throughout the entire growth, so I'm a bit confused.. people seem to be all over the map when it comes to growing techniques.. :/

 

[Mr.McNooby]

Cool.. That was kind of what i was already thinking of doing.. thanks for the suggestion .. tho i'm looking at a hydroponics site and they list a 150w sunsystem lamp fixture for $60.. and then there's a 400w fixture for $130.. should i go for the 400w fixture and buy a 400w light? or should i stick to the 150w.. I am really only growing 2 plants. Personal. But i need POTENT shit cuz i'm a fuckin chronic.. So If i'm gonna do this at all i plan to do it right. The first time.

On second thought.. There's an electrical supply store here in town, I'll go tomorrow and check out prices for ballasts, mogul fixtures, and reflective hoods, and HPS lights. I can likely Frankenstein something together for much less than $200.. which is what those lights will cost me after shipping and handling.. and i don't even know if that $200 US or Can.. so yeah.. I'll try my local elec. supply shop first

 

[mrmadcow]

400 watts is a little overkill for 5 square feet &2 plants.it will be tough to handle the heat. as for bulbs, ultrasun makes bulbs designed for horticulture that are fairly cheap & since they are designed for plants, they should be good. meybe not as good as a $100+ bulb but for 1/4 the price....I have used a 400 watt for 2 grows & can't complain.

 

[Mr.McNooby]

lol I actually FOUND a 400 watt HPS bulb I had in my basement from years ago... But yeah, in that small of a space you're right, i'd be afraid it would burn my plants.. I'll stick to a 150watt..

Should I also stick a 150w MH bulb in there too? I have heard a combination of the two are good.. anyone ever tried it?

 

[mrmadcow]

yes, I veg w/ a 400 mh and add a 400 HPS to flower. again the heat may hurt but they make 70 watt MH lights, I would veg w/ that and add a 150hps to flower.
btw. to air cool that small a light(150 watt) I have used a PC fan. no bends in the duct & no carbon filter. just straight duct in 1 side & out the other.

 

[Mr.McNooby]

Hmm.. that's not a bad idea.. I was gonna disassemble a mailbox to make a reflector.. But a short duct tube would be even easier thanks for the tip!

 

[Mr.McNooby]

So I ended up going to an aluminum and siding shop and got a sheet of the right kind of aluminum for a reflector hood. (Can't remember what they called it) lol...

I got them to bend the sides in on 45 degree angles and added lips for glass, in case i want to add some later.

Only cost around $25 bucks. I bought an elbow brace and a couple screws and nuts from Canadian Tire for a few dollars and drilled some holes thru the reflector hood to mount the elbow brace with the light socket.

Turned out well. Here's some pics: