URGENT!! opinions needed

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
YOU really dont know shit, a cop cant look in your window and say what something is, it has to be taken to a lab and tested(which cost MONEY).
Think about what you're saying. How do they get it there? And, no, they don't need to send it to a lab. Getting a look at it up close is sufficient. Link us a plant that requires a lab test to be distinguished from Cannabis.

And in order for it to be tested the cop has to have it in his possession which means he will have to take it from your house and prove why he came IN YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A WARRANT you dumb shit.
Wrong. By having the plant out in the open, you're giving them PROBABLE cause to enter. ESPECIALLY with the door unlocked. It's PROBABLY a marijuana plant. Don't be obtuse. Cops and courts interpret the laws in their favor.

Jesus, go watch some Law & Order. Even TV is more realistic than this crap you're spouting.

There for they will not waste their time on a plant that a cop or anyone else says LOOKS like marijuana, you have a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY JACKASS.
You put it in the window, you half-wit. You had it on DISPLAY. Why not add some accent lighting while you're at it?

You clearly know next to nothing about the law; just enough to get yourself in trouble.

I dont know about you but Ive seen a lot of plants that look like weed, and I also have seen alot of people who look like regular old people but turn out to be cops so I dont fuck with them because I dont know for sure. ARE YOU A COP STUPID!
Regular 'old' people? What are you, 15?
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
:clap::clap::clap:
+rep


what i as trying to say Maccabee!

Jr.
Thanks, man. Just to drive the point home:

Plain view doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Newweedman, you need to read that before you say anything else.

Note that for the purposes of the three-pronged test, the 'lawful access' is only what's needed to obtain the view of the object. Once they've seen it, it gives them probable cause to enter and seize the plant--maybe search the immediate area around the plant under the doctrine that allows them to ensure their own safety. I think they'd have to get a warrant to search the whole house. But back on Planet Earth they'd probably look around first, and then go get the warrant if there is evidence they need to seize.
 

email468

Well-Known Member
I would add the cops do not care if you get off on a technicality. They have the drugs and whatever else they already seized and they do not get reprimanded for not "following procedure" and your life is still fucked.

It doesn't cost them anything to get a warrant. And with probably cause (like I saw a potential pot plant) it is dead easy to get a warrant - within 72 hours without doing much of anything. I can't hardly believe anyone would think otherwise.

You are doing something illegal by growing marijuana (and if you're not - then this doesn't pertain to you anyway) - the cops job has changed from protecting citizens and has turned into seizing assets for the department. Seed in your car? they got a new vehicle (yes you can get busted for single seed). Plants in your home? bye-bye house.

the cops ARE out to get you - if you don't think they are then you are busted already.
 

Snowman

Well-Known Member
I'm goin with Colitas lol. If a cop took it they would have come back by now or you would have recieved some kinda phone call or something... i mean its been over 24 hours, if they went INTO your house to take a plant they're gonna act pretty quick with thier next move ... It was probably one of your buddies pulling an April fools joke lol...
 

BIGSIX

Well-Known Member
you are all missing the obvious answer,
ALIENS. his plant probably got an anal probe and disection.
 

newweedman

Well-Known Member
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_view_doctrine" said:
Plain view doctrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL] .

Newweedman, you need to read that before you say anything else.

Wow, where did you get this? Maybe you should have read it before you put it up. Here I'll quote it for you below in red text.

The plain view doctrine allows an officer to seize without a warrant, evidence and contraband found in plain view during a lawful observation.
For the plain view doctrine to apply for discoveries, three criteria must be met:
  1. the officer is where he has a legal right to be,
  2. ordinary senses must not be enhanced by advanced technology, and
  3. any discovery must be by chance.
In order for the officer to seize the item, the officer must have probable cause to believe the item is evidence of a crime or is contraband. The police may not move objects to get a better view. In Arizona v. Hicks 480 U.S. 321 (1987), the officer was found to have acted unlawfully. While investigating a shooting, the officer moved, without probable cause, stereo equipment to record the serial numbers. The plain view doctrine has also been expanded to include the sub doctrines of plain feel, plain smell, and plain hearing.[1]
In Horton v. California 496 U.S. 128 (1990), the court eliminated the requirement that the discovery of evidence in plain view be inadvertent. Previously, "inadvertent discovery" was required leading to difficulties in defining "inadvertent discovery." A three-prong test is now used. The test requires the officer to be "engaged in lawful activity at the time," "the object’s incriminating character was immediately apparent and not concealed," and "the officer had lawful access to the object and it was discovered accidentally."[

Now, since you failed to understand the shit you were reading.
First- Found in plain view during a lawful observation would mean he is 100% sure it is a marijuana plant and not possibly some ordinary house plant.
Second- A legal right to be would not be opening your door and entering your house, whether your door is unlocked or not.
Third- Any discovery must be by chance. This says it all, the discovery would be no good because he made a unlawful entry into your house.
Fourth- The officer must have probable cause to believe the item is evidence of a crime or is contraband, So just because he/she says it looks like marijuana, is it really marijuana? Does it smell like marijuana? If the answer is yes, how did you obtain it to smell it? Did you enter my home UNLAWFULY. The police may not move objects to get a better view. UH! OH! Did you just open my door to look at it closer, and you also fucked up by wiping the dirt off my window to get a clear view.
And last but not least- The last paragraph is a recording from a previous trial and changes made in procedure so peoples constitutional rights are not broken. Even if it is in plain view thru a window, are you sure it is what you THINK it is?
All this tells me is that you cant read or comprehend. If I had a baggie of flower or sugar on my counter next to the window in my kitchen does that give you the right to come in my house and see what it is, HUH COP?

DONT BE A DICK RIDER, BE SMART!
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Dude, you're hopeless.

Maybe you should have read it before you put it up.
How can you tell if I read it? You obviously don't understand it.

For the plain view doctrine to apply for discoveries, three criteria must be met:
  1. the officer is where he has a legal right to be,
Cops are allowed to be outside your window.

  1. ordinary senses must not be enhanced by advanced technology, and
  2. any discovery must be by chance.
Seeing something through a window that you left there is a change discovery. Have you ever read a statute or an opinion before?

In order for the officer to seize the item, the officer must have probable cause to believe the item is evidence of a crime or is contraband. The police may not move objects to get a better view.

The plant was left in the window. This is the position in which it was viewed. All the doctrine covers here is the initial sighting of the plant.
In Arizona v. Hicks 480 U.S. 321 (1987), the officer was found to have acted unlawfully. While investigating a shooting, the officer moved, without probable cause, stereo equipment to record the serial numbers. The plain view doctrine has also been expanded to include the sub doctrines of plain feel, plain smell, and plain hearing.[1]
In Horton v. California 496 U.S. 128 (1990), the court eliminated the requirement that the discovery of evidence in plain view be inadvertent. Previously, "inadvertent discovery" was required leading to difficulties in defining "inadvertent discovery." A three-prong test is now used. The test requires the officer to be "engaged in lawful activity at the time," "the object’s incriminating character was immediately apparent and not concealed," and "the officer had lawful access to the object and it was discovered accidentally."[
This exact language has been used to uphold seizures of objects seen through windows. Tell you what, why don't you go Shepardize those cases and report back, 'kay?

How To Shepardize

Now, since you failed to understand the shit you were reading.

O, the sweet sweet irony.

First- Found in plain view during a lawful observation would mean he is 100% sure it is a marijuana plant and not possibly some ordinary house plant.
Wrong. Any cops don't have to be clairvoyant, these standards are based on normal human senses. Tell you what: you try and tell the trial judge that the police officer could not have been reasonably certain that it's a pot plant.

You're not allowed to make up your own law. Do you see "100%" in the statute? No. That means its a question of law for the judge, or a question of fact for the jury.

A judge would laugh at your argument, then rule against your evidentiary objections.
Second-A legal right to be would not be opening your door and entering your house, whether your door is unlocked or not.
Wrong again. Under exigent circumstances, like witnessing a crime in progress or spotting contraband, police may make entry. If the door is unlocked the bar is lowered further in terms of restraint against search and seizure. Now, different judges and jurisdictions have varying standards for this.

Since you protested so angrily I went and did a little checking. Indeed in many cases, the police would have to obtain a warrant to enter and seize the plant. However, with a plant in plain view, they can get that done very quickly. And, again, in many cases they may just manufacture some other pretense for entry. Or, if you're a renter, they'll just ask the super or the landlord. And they will get that permission, every time. Or they might just knock on the door and try to get you let them a few feet into the house on a pretense. Then they're in, the plant is seized and you're under arrest.

Third- Any discovery must be by chance. This says it all, the discovery would be no good because he made a unlawful entry into your house.
You just don't understand how language works in the law. It means what it says, you can't just expand upon it because you think that's what it's supposed to mean. Chance discovery without a doubt includes walking by and seeing it in your window. If you don't understand this, you may be so dense that it may not be safe for you to cut up your own food. Seek supervision.

On the other hand, when they may lawfully enter is another story. But you're kind of fucked whether they come right in or come back in 90 minutes.

Fourth- The officer must have probable cause to believe the item is evidence of a crime or is contraband, So just because he/she says it looks like marijuana, is it really marijuana? Does it smell like marijuana? If the answer is yes, how did you obtain it to smell it? Did you enter my home UNLAWFULY. The police may not move objects to get a better view. UH! OH! Did you just open my door to look at it closer, and you also fucked up by wiping the dirt off my window to get a clear view.
You're just blowing smoke now, and making up outlandish hypotheticals. Where did the dirty window come from? This isn't My Cousin Vinny.

I explained to you application of the law that makes these kinds of actions acceptable. Judges will accept a police officers testimony that they identified a marijuana plant by sight. Go ahead, think otherwise. You'll still be complaining about the injustice of the system and the stupidity of the judge and jury while someone's turning you into their new girlfriend. (I can use color tags too, yay.)

And last but not least- The last paragraph is a recording from a previous trial and changes made in procedure so peoples constitutional rights are not broken. Even if it is in plain view thru a window, are you sure it is what you THINK it is?
All this tells me is that you cant read or comprehend. If I had a baggie of flower or sugar on my counter next to the window in my kitchen does that give you the right to come in my house and see what it is, HUH COP?

DONT BE A DICK RIDER, BE SMART!
Can you tell a glass of water from a glass of vodka through a window? No. Can you tell a dog from a pony? Yes.

What's sad is that one day you'll be wishing you listened.


I'm not a cop, but my entire immediate family is comprised of attorneys and law professors. Including former public defenders who used to help idiots like you survive their poor judgment and ignorant belief they knew everything. Good luck, hope you stay out of jail long enough to form a frontal lobe.
 

newweedman

Well-Known Member
dude you really are stupid.. you need to shut up...

they dont need it in their hand they dont need tests in labs they dont need a dog...
(although it would help later in court)
you OBVIOUSLY have NEVER had a run in with the cops and everything you have learned about the legal system seems to be from other teenage stoners while you're high...

and yes (gasp) cops KNOW what weed looks like! omg! shocker i know.. not just people who grow it haha. if they see a roach in ur car they dont have to take it to the lab before they can search your car haha... they go hey.. thats probable cause.. this is my job.. this guy more than likely has more shit on him so i will give him a hard time.

same as if they see a weed plant...i know in your eyes they might all look the same (im not really sure why you are on this forum if you cant distinguish 'weed' and other weeds) but regardless....

you WILL be in jail soon with out a doubt if you think all that is true... cops can say they saw anything, say they smelt anything, dogs can be make to false alert. and for one plant.. yes the department can seize all your shit (car, house, any cash)to easily pay for this "expensive" warrant. i dont know why you think all police departments are too broke to afford a search warrant..
good luck... you're going to need it
No, you obviously are a stupid shit. In your own words, (they dont need it in their hand they dont need tests in labs they dont need a dog...)
(although it would help later in court)
Well ain't that the purpose for it to hold up in court, If they dont have any of those things plus a warrant then it gets thrown out of court.

I need to introduce you to my lawyer so I would not have to pay anymore fees, because he would break your dumb ass. "Oh the cops took weed from your house without a warrant? For $10,000 I'll get it dismissed." He told me to tell you this, he said he could always use a sucker!

Also i can show you ten people who smoke weed, but couldnt tell you what the plant looks like except for the picture of the leaf that is always used to symbolize weed. So if you really grow marijuana MR OFFICER, then you should know all leaves do not look the same.

Only cops think cops dont have to follow procedure and abide by peoples rights. Hey GOGROW, you better be careful, I think HEMLOCKSTONES is the cop who stole your plant!!!!!!
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
OK, dude, whatever. Your lawyer friend is either an idiot, you didn't relate the fact pattern properly, or you didn't understand the answer. The only point you have is regarding entry, which is just a distraction as plain view will get them a warrant in a matter of minutes or hours even if they decide not to make immediate entry due to a concern over legitimacy of access-and officers are very skilled in getting around access restrictions through creative manufacture of probably cause, exigent circumstances or social engineering.

Good luck out there, hope you still have a sphincter in 25 years.
 

FilthyFletch

Mr I Can Do That For Half
Over all granted its a weird thing that it just disappeared.You should always lock up and not leave anything in the line of sight.The thing to remember when all the cop conspiracy came to is that if it were a cop you have some things in your favor.If he just walked in without a warrant and then illeagll confiscated the plant your all good as he ruined any possible warrant he might have tried to gte by illegal entry and seizure.If he saw it he would have had to call for a warrant to enter the premises as just from view it could not be confirmed it to be a real living marijuana plant by eye line view.Now for those of us who are familar with warrants. He would have had to post the warrant on your door or in clear sight such as on the table or counter. You can pretty sure rule out cop involvement right there as cops are dumb but it would take an exceptionally dumb one to ruin a case this quickly.Door open insight.Id say more then likely someone stopped by thast knows you saw the plant knocked no answer tried door called out no answer then just grabbed it thinking easy come up especially if you ever smoke good weed with friends and they might suspect it to be a good plant.Other options are like said maybe it got broken or destroyed and no one wants to get you pissed or another option have any family who might have stopped by and not a gamja fan such as a momther or father or such?.Id keep the doors locked and an eye out.Simple web cam and cheap video car you can monitor your homes doors 24 -7 via cell phone if you have broadband and newer cell phone with net access
 

newweedman

Well-Known Member
Dude, you're hopeless.

I'm not a cop, but my entire immediate family is comprised of attorneys and law professors. Including former public defenders who used to help idiots like you survive their poor judgment and ignorant belief they knew everything. Good luck, hope you stay out of jail long enough to form a frontal lobe.
Whats sad, is that those attorneys and law professors haven't updated you on your rights. And that if one of those rights are violated or abused then that could compromise the whole case. Come take something out of my house without a warrant OFFICER MacCabee, I guarantee it gets thrown out of court.
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Guys, you need to understand this: the courts will accept visual identification of marijuana plants. Period, end of story. If it turns out later to be something else, well--you get an apology.

I'll reiterate: the only valid point pertains to entry and the police are very skilled at worming through loopholes in these protections.

Take a look at the current composition of the Federal judiciary (stacked with Bush appointees) and the Supreme Court (Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Alito....) and tell me if you really want to hang your hat on their dedication to your legal protections against overzealous use of police powers.....
 

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
Dude, you're hopeless.



Whats sad, is that those attorneys and law professors haven't updated you on your rights. And that if one of those rights are violated or abused then that could compromise the whole case. Come take something out of my house without a warrant OFFICER MacCabee, I guarantee it gets thrown out of court.
I think you're misunderstanding my politics. I'm a card-carrying ACLU member, and I really don't want to get into the case law regarding the access provision. You're not entirely wrong about it, but you don't fully understand it, either. That's OK--it's not entirely settled law.

Even granting your hypothetical, the evidence collected under the warrant they obtain to come back and seize the rest of your grow op survives...the discovery was legitimate so there's no poisoning of the well (aka 'fruit of the poisonous tree.')

Here's what I'm trying to get accross: Law enforcement is not comprised of legal philosophers who are going to debate the finer points of evidentiary objections before they come and bust your ass. Maybe you'll get some evidence thrown out--that still may not save your ass.

If you hear nothing else, hear this: I know a kid who was arrested for having a shitty little single plant in his kitchen window. Granted, he lived in an apartment complex and the super gave the cops permission to enter. Having to get a warrant might have delayed his arrest by about an hour and a half, maybe. (Luckily he was a first time offender and had ties to the legal community; they pled him out on probation.) I also have been at a judges house at an evening social event when police have come by with 'urgent' warrants for signature.

Do you know what they were for? House searches. For drugs. Based on sightings and tips from earlier in the day.

Do you want to tempt fate, or do you want to stay free?
 

newweedman

Well-Known Member
I think you're misunderstanding my politics. I'm a card-carrying ACLU member, and I really don't want to get into the case law regarding the access provision. You're not entirely wrong about it, but you don't fully understand it, either. That's OK--it's not entirely settled law.

Even granting your hypothetical, the evidence collected under the warrant they obtain to come back and seize the rest of your grow op survives...the discovery was legitimate so there's no poisoning of the well (aka 'fruit of the poisonous tree.')

Here's what I'm trying to get accross: Law enforcement is not comprised of legal philosophers who are going to debate the finer points of evidentiary objections before they come and bust your ass. Maybe you'll get some evidence thrown out--that still may not save your ass.

Do you want to tempt fate, or do you want to stay free?
Im going to stay free, because no one knows i grow, blinds stay shut, doors stay locked, poly shield every where, dogs stay loose and wood burning stove says lit, just incase some drunk judge gives a warrant.
 

gogrow

confused
Original Poster, but yeah.

I'm wondering if the question itself was an April Fool's prank.

If so, then we have all been well trolled.

i wish it were so, but no april fools pranks here:


also; macc and newweed; quit fucking arguing on my thread, i was/am looking for advice, not bullshit, i have enough of that as it is.
 
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