The Official House and Garden Thread
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ievolution
Well-Known Member
My PPM is 100 and never once had a problem with a deficiency using Coco nutes with the complete line. After reading nearly every question on their site they only recommend using Cal/Mag with their Coco Nutrients if you use RO water. Do you use their complete line? Also what medium do you use? Is it pure coco etc.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
There isn't necessarily too much Nitrogen but if you wanted to cut out Nitrogen during flowering you would lower A and not B. A has 3 times the amount of Nitrogen if I remember right. I would have no clue where to start if I even considered making my own line lol. I love Coco A&B from H&G so I will stick with that. Just curious about other additives since I have used their complete line for soo many different runs I'd like to try something different out. I doubt I will but just been pondering it lately. I wouldn't add another Base bloom nute if that is what you meant just additives.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
What I mean is use a product with a high PK and zero N, then lower your AB to half and supplement the other half with the PK. Arriving at the same ppm
I thought about lowering the A and raising the B but the secondary and micro nutrients are not in the same ratios for both bottles so you could be throwing alot of things out of whack doing that.
I understand using a good line of nutes, that has good proven results, but why can't you just buy the ingredients and combine them yourself to have decent results? There is something called "the sixpack" it comes in 6 powders one is N, another is P, a third is K. there is a chelated micro nutrient one, and so on, six powders in total, and they are CHEAP. why shouldnt you be able to mix them together and have the same results as H&G, what is their "Magic" ingredient? If what plants crave is N and P and K and Cal/Mag iron sulpher and some minor trace minerals, what difference would it make having you or I mix them up as to having H&G mix them up? well I guess this isnt the right thread for that.
In the meantime that I ponder such things I will continue to use my expensive H&G nutes and maybe one day I'll be brave enough to try my own recipe
I thought about lowering the A and raising the B but the secondary and micro nutrients are not in the same ratios for both bottles so you could be throwing alot of things out of whack doing that.
I understand using a good line of nutes, that has good proven results, but why can't you just buy the ingredients and combine them yourself to have decent results? There is something called "the sixpack" it comes in 6 powders one is N, another is P, a third is K. there is a chelated micro nutrient one, and so on, six powders in total, and they are CHEAP. why shouldnt you be able to mix them together and have the same results as H&G, what is their "Magic" ingredient? If what plants crave is N and P and K and Cal/Mag iron sulpher and some minor trace minerals, what difference would it make having you or I mix them up as to having H&G mix them up? well I guess this isnt the right thread for that.
In the meantime that I ponder such things I will continue to use my expensive H&G nutes and maybe one day I'll be brave enough to try my own recipe
Just entered into the third week of 12/12 after vegging 3 weeks from seed with the full line of H&G nutes. Check out my journal below!
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ievolution
Well-Known Member
Yeah good luck with that.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
I've been thinking I would like to see a threat where every1 does the math at how much it costs for their nutrient line they use per gal. When I did it for H&G I was fairly surprised at how cheap it was per gal considering the initial cost is pretty expensive too most people. Really it is simple math. Consider Bud XL which is $41.00 and you use 3.8ml per gal and the volume is 1000ml. The equation would be (Price/volume)x ML per gal. (41/1000)x3.8= .15 . So really that 41 dollars makes over 250 gallons. Now do it for the rest of the nutrients. I wish I had the paper I did it on recently because I think I may do it all again.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
You say it would be very hard to come up with the right mix, but your already mixing and matching different products, and the trouble with it is you don't know exactly what the ingredients are for each product. If you start from scratch from the seperate ingredients then you know exactly how to modify it. Youll know whats in your mix and have a clean slate to make changes.
There is however a good chance that a company such as H&G has access to chemicals that require a licsense to possess. For example Nitrogen in certain forms can be used to make bombs, so its not going to be available to everyone. But once its mixed into an NPK of 4:3:4 or whatever it's no longer feasible for people to try to make bombs from it. So it is quite likely that the only way to aquire the nutrients your plants need is to buy them premixed by buying from companies that manufacture plant nutrients.
If I were to ever attempt to make my own mix, I would start by replicating the NPK of another brands nutrient line. On the bottle it tells you the NPK, it also tells you what form of each nutrient is being used. All you have to do is aquire those very same chemicals, and mix them to the same ratios. From there you should have something roughly equivelent to the Brand name that your replicating. You know exactly what is in it and you can modify the recipe to suit your needs
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Sorry I just deleted the message on accident when I was doing that whole math thing. Yeah I guess the NPK part you could just copy but the other stuff in the nutrients is a mystery. That part would come from testing. Companies from what I have heard them say have a real hard time getting their nutrients to every state with the same label so they leave it very basic. IDK it all but I know most of the stuff in the bottles isn't seen on the label. It may be as easy as your leading it to believe but I am not sure about that. I mean there are a lot of organic growers that just use Guanos and stuff and it obviously works so I don't believe plants need as much as I think. The thing with Mixing additives are they aren't the actual NPK/micro/macro nutrients that are keeping the plants healthy more then they are boosting the plants with other random stuff like Carbs/enzymes etc. I would never use Coco A from H&G then try using a different nutrient line for the B. It just wouldn't work that way. Additives are a completely different story.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
Yea... you might be right, it could be like if you had a chicken and some breadcrumbs and thought you were gunna be able to make KFC
Someday I may give it a try. I would do it in a water medium hydro setup, and use H&G and my own mixed NPK replica mix, and run a side by side. hahaha
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Yeah it sounds fun but could be a bumpy ride. I was just reading a thread where people were using Big bud(an) with the House and Garden line. Has any1 that used this line ever thought of all the nutrients H&G has in europe that aren't available here. I believe PK 13/14 is one of them. I have asked them to let me know if any other nutrients would be beneficial to run with the complete line but they wouldn't give me anything for obvious reasons. This is what got me going on this whole different flowering additives with the complete H&G line. I know there are some additives out there that will be beneficial. BTW you should try out darkenergy instead of Algen Extract and let me know how it goes.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
I do too but I don't love paying about a dollar per gal to use just amino Treatment and having to spend 200 dollars every 2 months for it. I personally haven't noticed much difference besides a bigger stock and stems which I have a feeling using a Silicate product will do the same. Amino Treatment will be the only product I would recommend people wanting to try H&G out not to use unless they had a lot of extra money to spend and wanted to see if it was worth it for themselves. I personally wont ever buy it again. It is more expensive than running everything else in their line.
Chumba01
Member
True True.. But I dont know i Spent the Money and ran it full strength side by side one with and one without! End product was amino Did WORK! The tric heads on the amino light where much larger than the light without. Also i was able to hit the Amino Light much harder, So much more resistant to stress. I dont know it is quite pricey but worth every penny! your plants just love everything about it!
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I know there is a bit of a difference that is why I want to find the right mix of nutes for much cheaper. All it seems like it is is Beneficials(already in Roots excelurator plus I use great white), Amino Acids(which I know one of the H&G Nutrients contain), and Silica. Those can be purchased for a quarter of the price at most. Aren't trichome sizes determined by if it is Indica/Sativa or whatever. I mean I have seen Strains become frostier but never seen the same strain with just completely bigger trichs. I tried talking myself into spending a $1 per gal for Amino Treatment when everything else in week 5 is no more than 60 cents. I really can't comprehend how they could charge that much for Nutrients. I mean if some1 is going to buy Amino Treatment then first they should go get co2 and make everything else perfect because that price is criminal.. That all being said lol I would pay an extra 25 cents just for the stronger branches on my plants which is really the best thing Amino Treatment did for me. Hopefully that is where Silica comes into play.
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
Glad were having this conversation because I just noticed that the canadian website for House and garden doesnt have Amino Treatment on their product list, and its not in the nutrient calculator. So I'm going to assume they dont carry the product in Canada, but it sounds like if I use Great white, with a silica additive then I can do without it.
I don't know if it was the roots excellerator that did it or not but my plants got totally rootbound in 2 gallon pots and their only a foot tall! Granted they are also 50 days from sprout now, so they have had plenty of time to grow roots. Their in 6 gallon pots now
I don't know if it was the roots excellerator that did it or not but my plants got totally rootbound in 2 gallon pots and their only a foot tall! Granted they are also 50 days from sprout now, so they have had plenty of time to grow roots. Their in 6 gallon pots now
Chumba01
Member
Glad were having this conversation because I just noticed that the canadian website for House and garden doesnt have Amino Treatment on their product list, and its not in the nutrient calculator. So I'm going to assume they dont carry the product in Canada, but it sounds like if I use Great white, with a silica additive then I can do without it.
I don't know if it was the roots excellerator that did it or not but my plants got totally rootbound in 2 gallon pots and their only a foot tall! Granted they are also 50 days from sprout now, so they have had plenty of time to grow roots. Their in 6 gallon pots now
As far as them not having it on the Canada Line... Have any of you ever looked at the UK line.. its not a matter of them releasing it here or in Canada . It is a matter of them shipping to the US and Canada... None of house and garden products besides AMino have Amino Acid... Liquid Karma is Kind of Similar but Does not have the Fine Parts of silica in it. silica binds to your plants cell wall and makes it stronger and healthier. Trichome Production Really all depends on the strain.. When you have Bigger Healthier plants you have bigger Healthier trics... Great White.. GREAT STUFF.. What great white does though is breck down your old root growth and turns it into food for the plant and encourages new root growth....Bottom line is. I am stoked h and g released amino..There is a reason they released it. Not just to piss us all off and rob us of our money... where growers man.. you will get it all back in the long run...
Thedillestpickle
Well-Known Member
Thats what I was thinking, I think I caught it just in time to avoid problems, and now with 6 gallons hopefully that'll get me through till harvest. I think I'm going to try sticking one plant into a 15gallon tote just to see if there is a differenceIt just means that RE works and you did not up-pot in time
I was actually going for a slight rootbound between transplants, my thinking being that it would be better to have a sortof russian doll type effect with many layers of rootzone, rather than if you had just planted to the big pot right off the start.
ievolution
Well-Known Member
Damn 15 gal is out of control. I have never used bigger than a 3-5 gal pot and I usually stay with 3 gal. Seeds are a different story since they have a much longer life but if you went to 7 gal at most you would be fine. I wouldn't go any bigger than 7 gal for a mother so that will be plenty good for you. I agree with transplanting multiple of times it always seems to work better and saves a lot of money in nutrients. I always start at 4 inch go to 1 gal then to 3 gal then flower.