Ethical Dilemma

[guy incognito]

Lol...dude. Listen. Think about this slowly, somehow you're missing a huge point. I offered two different things: One, how I, Johnnygreenfingers (Tony) feel about it, and the other, what my opinion is on other people's right to make laws that place their opinion on me. Do you see what I'm saying?
I believe that regardless of my personal opinion on when life begins, it is still your right to do as you choose within the law. I don't think that there should be laws telling you that you have to think or act like or agree with me. It's a slippery slope once people start governing the inside of other people's bodies.

Yes, you johnnygreenfingers simultaneously personally believe:

1. I consider it life or independently alive at the point in time that it could survive on it's own if removed from someone's body. Whenever that is in medical terms is where I would draw the line for abortions.

2. The life that's inside my body isn't your business until it comes out.

I understand both of these statements. I understand exactly what you are saying. But just for clarification, when you say you consider it "independently alive", and you would personally draw the line for your own personal abortion, you do so because YOU consider it human and YOU think it has the same rights other humans have, and it would be morally wrong of you to abort it? Or it is not morally wrong, you just personally would not feel comfortable aborting it?

If I do in fact understand point #1, then I do not understand is how you can simultaneously hold both beliefs. If you consider it human and morally wrong to abort yourself, I don't see how that doesn't extend to others.

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

I don't know how I can be any more clear that what I believe and what I believe should be law for all are two separate things. I can't really keep repeating myself all day, so if you want to keep that train rolling I'll let you speak to my assistant, Attack Kitty. Good luck.

 

[afrawfraw]

Come to think of it, they should have their parents sterilized.
Retroactively. cn

I'm with CN on this 1. I think we should put a sterilization chemical in the water supply or something. Then after an IQ test and other requirements, you get a pill from the government that counter acts the sterilization agents!

 

[neosapien]

lol, I just laid an entire new floor in my hallway while you guys were bickering. You're BOTH wrong. Life starts at 9/8pm central. You have to suffer through Oprah though. No Attenborough.

 

[tip top toker]

How accurate is this concept of overpopulation? Sure New York or London etc are overcrowded, but there are VAST swathes of perfectly habitable land all across the world without a soul on them.

Seems to me, people get persuaded and move to big cities because of the allure of modern life and all that bollocks, but in reality there is still PLENTY of space to go around for someone to live and grow their food and enjoy life. But no, we all need ipods and ultra fast internet and all that lot.

 

[afrawfraw]

Yes, you johnnygreenfingers simultaneously personally believe:

1. I consider it life or independently alive at the point in time that it could survive on it's own if removed from someone's body. Whenever that is in medical terms is where I would draw the line for abortions.

2. The life that's inside my body isn't your business until it comes out.

I understand both of these statements. I understand exactly what you are saying. But just for clarification, when you say you consider it "independently alive", and you would personally draw the line for your own personal abortion, you do so because YOU consider it human and YOU think it has the same rights other humans have, and it would be morally wrong of you to abort it? Or it is not morally wrong, you just personally would not feel comfortable aborting it?

If I do in fact understand point #1, then I do not understand is how you can simultaneously hold both beliefs. If you consider it human and morally wrong to abort yourself, I don't see how that doesn't extend to others.

I believe that organic gardening is the best way to grow Cannabis.

Writing laws that ill-legalize non-organic methods is another. NOT TROLLING, I promise. I think his point is he feels one way, but thinks it inappropriate to impose that opinion on every one.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." It's an American thing.

Yes, I know Friends of Voltaire wrote this, but it has been adopted as a model for our countries founding fine print.

 

[JustCoasting]

I think that if any other species was doing to the planet what we (as humans) are doing, we would be hunting it down and eradicating it.

So, I think we (as humans) are not doing right by our planet.

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

I believe that organic gardening is the best way to grow Cannabis.

Writing laws that ill-legalize non-organic methods is another. NOT TROLLING, I promise. I think his point is he feels one way, but thinks it inappropriate to impose that opinion on every one.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." It's an American thing.

Yes, I know Friends of Voltaire wrote this, but it has been adopted as a model for our countries founding fine print.

Dingdingding! We have a winnar! Choose any prize on shelf 14 between the salt shakers and the toothpicks!

 

[afrawfraw]

Dingdingding! We have a winnar! Choose any prize on shelf 14 between the salt shakers and the toothpicks!

OOO, OOO, Can I have that Greydon Square Album!

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

OOO, OOO, Can I have that Greydon Square Album!

Yes you can, but read the disclaimer please. It's a picture of a Greydon Square Album. Enjoy your lovely prizes!

 

[afrawfraw]

Yes you can, but read the disclaimer please. It's a picture of a Greydon Square Album. Enjoy your lovely prizes!

My perception was inaccurate! Who'd a thunk!

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

My perception was inaccurate! Who'd a thunk!

Wrong? On the intarwebz? GTFO, impossible =)

 

[guy incognito]

I don't know how I can be any more clear that what I believe and what I believe should be law for all are two separate things. I can't really keep repeating myself all day, so if you want to keep that train rolling I'll let you speak to my assistant, Attack Kitty. Good luck.

View attachment 2023005

You could be more clear by answering the question I have asked you three fucking times. Since you haven't I will repost them here.

You are saying it is a life, that deserves human rights,

are you saying you believe it to be a human, but it does NOT gain the rights other humans have (such as the right to life) until after birth?

just for clarification, when you say you consider it "independently alive", and you would personally draw the line for your own personal abortion, you do so because YOU consider it human and YOU think it has the same rights other humans have, and it would be morally wrong of you to abort it? Or it is not morally wrong, you just personally would not feel comfortable aborting it?

So, I FULLY understand that you, johnnygreenfingers, would NOT abort passed a certain point where YOU consider it to be "independently alive". That much is clear. Now, for the fourth time, is that because you consider it a human, with a right to life? Or do you have some other motivation? WHY would you personally not abort that fetus?

 

[afrawfraw]

You could be more clear by answering the question I have asked you three fucking times. Since you haven't I will repost them here.







So, I FULLY understand that you, johnnygreenfingers, would NOT abort passed a certain point where YOU consider it to be "independently alive". That much is clear. Now, for the fourth time, is that because you consider it a human, with a right to life? Or do you have some other motivation? WHY would you personally not abort that fetus?

Taxes. Earned Income Credit. Duh.

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

So, I FULLY understand that you, johnnygreenfingers, would NOT abort passed a certain point where YOU consider it to be "independently alive". That much is clear. Now, for the fourth time, is that because you consider it a human, with a right to life? Or do you have some other motivation? WHY would you personally not abort that fetus?

Oh, ok. Simple enough. I don't know that I have specific answers for why I would keep it beyond the fact that it might be cool to have a little mini-me. But I can say absolutely that the reason would not be because I think it has rights. It doesn't have rights in my opinion, the person who is carrying it and using up her own health to allow it to grow would be the person I consider to have the rights in this issue. Does that explain it better? Because if it doesn't, I'm afraid I'm going to have to strand you in the dark.

 

[guy incognito]

I believe that organic gardening is the best way to grow Cannabis.

Writing laws that ill-legalize non-organic methods is another. NOT TROLLING, I promise. I think his point is he feels one way, but thinks it inappropriate to impose that opinion on every one.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." It's an American thing.

Yes, I know Friends of Voltaire wrote this, but it has been adopted as a model for our countries founding fine print.

The fundamental difference here is that others farming cannabis in a non organic method does not deprive a human of their natural right to life.

Do you guys honestly not see the difference, or understand how his reason behind not wanting an abortion makes a huge difference?

 

[guy incognito]

Oh, ok. Simple enough. I don't know that I have specific answers for why I would keep it beyond the fact that it might be cool to have a little mini-me. But I can say absolutely that the reason would not be because I think it has rights. It doesn't have rights in my opinion, the person who is carrying it and using up her own health to allow it to grow would be the person I consider to have the rights in this issue. Does that explain it better? Because if it doesn't, I'm afraid I'm going to have to strand you in the dark.

Yes it does.

 

[afrawfraw]

The fundamental difference here is that others farming cannabis in a non organic method does not deprive a human of their natural right to life.

Do you guys honestly not see the difference, or understand how his reason behind not wanting an abortion makes a huge difference?

His reasons for getting an abortion or not does NOT matter. My reasons for being an Atheist or a Catholic do NOT matter. A fetus has no rights. It is a growth. The question is at what point to we consider this fetus a citizen. Then it gets rights. Have your kid in the Amazon, and explain to the wildlife your fetus' right to live.

 

[JohnnyGreenfingers]

Have your kid in the Amazon, and explain to the wildlife your fetus' right to live.

That, my friend, was money! I'm letting you know right now that I fully intend to plagiarize this the next time I'm in a similar discussion.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

What if there were a law forcing every pregnant female to carry the child to full term, and the mother died from complications of childbirth or something? Who would be responsible then, if a law forced someone to do something that could potentially shorten or end their life and it actually did?

No one here argued that it should be that way...

I don't know, I'm not a tree hugger or anything but at this point in history it sure seems like people are obsessed with telling other people what to do. You have to draw a line somewhere, and for me this is my line. Man's law stops (in my mind) and becomes my choice once it reaches my skin.

Are you an anarchist? It's a legitimate thing, just curious. I've always felt laws should protect people from others. What we define as people is where our disagreement lies (unless you're an anarchist).