More Money then Brains -OR- hey look I got a new Tamisium Extractor!

[pharmacoping]

91 will do. will take a little tiny bit longer to evaporate out, but willl be fine. acetone works well also. rockit with 91%... I just extracted using a coffee filter instead of the steel wool in the bottom. . it s a better product with the coffee filter, imo. prolly gonna whip it into budder. one oz dolid bud Utopia Haze..oil should be sweet.

 

[Dan Kone]

91 will do. will take a little tiny bit longer to evaporate out, but willl be fine. acetone works well also. rockit with 91%... I just extracted using a coffee filter instead of the steel wool in the bottom. . it s a better product with the coffee filter, imo. prolly gonna whip it into budder. one oz dolid bud Utopia Haze..oil should be sweet.

found 99% alcohol.

I've got some old junky trim I'm going to do a few runs with some vector I already had. But in a few weeks I'm going to start harvest on the purps and then a week or two after that I'm going to have a ton of blue dream to harvest that looks really nice for budder making. The leaves are completely coated in crystals so I should have an ample amount to make budder with. Definitely going with n-butane for that.


The blue dream. When I see the leaves on these all I can think is "mmmmm budder"


The purps - perfect for amber glass hopefully.


Can't wait till they are done!

 

[Dan Kone]

cut a couple steel wool discs. After picking the steel wool slivers out of my hands afterwards, I've decided to go with coffee filters. Not sure that I want steel wool slivers in my dabs. Seems like that would be considered more of a bug than a feature.

 

[pharmacoping]

tami suggested it, so I tried it for a year. I never cut the wool, just jammed in , so never had any pricks in there. between vector and lab95.9 tane, you wont detect a difference, except some in recovery. all of it wil not recover, but you'll let it evap later.

love the pic of the blue dream and purps, yummy. remember even garbage will produce a nice oil, but your buds are the whip.

 

[Dan Kone]

How necessary is a transport solvent? I got the 99% alcohol but I'm worried that it's going to be annoying to evap and unsafe to purge inside. Don't mind getting rid of the last of the liquid butane outside because that's easy and only takes a few minutes, but alcohol is different.

 

[pharmacoping]

you'll be negating all of the safety features by counting n evaporating the tane. but you certainly can do it. I use 10 ml of 99 evry time. since you should gently heat and stir anyways for proper decarboxylation and removal of residuals, your 10ml of 99 will be gone in an hour. also, you wont know how much butane is left in the oil when done. but I have done it also, and its fine. be careful.

 

[Dan Kone]

you'll be negating all of the safety features by counting n evaporating the tane. but you certainly can do it. I use 10 ml of 99 evry time. since you should gently heat and stir anyways for proper decarboxylation and removal of residuals, your 10ml of 99 will be gone in an hour. also, you wont know how much butane is left in the oil when done. but I have done it also, and its fine. be careful.

I wasn't planning on evaporating ALL the tane, just the tane that's still left over after recovery.

Ok. 10ml isn't so bad. I misread and thought it was 100ml.

 

[Matt Rize]

haha dan, busted me taking pics off this thread for fbook. What can I say other than... thanks

 

[dontexist21]

As someone who has working in a oraganic chemistry lab, I find this entire process painful inificient and wasteful. First I have say that I worked in a large university lab, working if solvents and organic compounds, purifying and all of that fun stuff. And not once did we use a flammable gas to purify a compound, there are much better alternatives.

While the system might look nice, I find it ridiculous the amount of time the compound and the solvent come in contact are not enough to time to do a proper extraction. You are losing a lot of your yield. I suggest getting a soxhlet extractor, it is not very hard to set up, cheaper, and much more effiecient. You are also better off using hexane since, again it will be cheaper, and much more effiecient. Hexane also has to added benifit of being easier to get, and much much much less likely to blow up. And no worries about metal impurities since you are only dealing with glass.


I mean no disrespect to anyone who has already bought it. Just wanted to give the opinion of a guy who had to do this stuff for hrs on end. If anyone wants to know how to set a system up using a soxhlet, feel free to ask. Soxhlet has to benefit of being able to run for hrs to get to maximum yield from the herb, and much better retention of solvent.

I would like to note that I have not made bho, but have extracted plenty of organic compounds from substance. Just your friendly neighborhood chemist.

Edit: I forgot to add you can set up the system using n-butane, but that would just be harder, much harder.

 

[pharmacoping]

I own a soxhlet extractor and it is great, especially for Rick Simpson oil or the like. Reason for that is the near complete extraction of all compounds in the material.
after a soxhlet extraction you'll be left with a pile of muddy goo containing every wax and carcinogen in the plant. You'll see soon after making bho that this short time of contact between solvent and herb is a necessary function of removing most all active compunds, leaving the nasties behind. a subsequent soak, or another extraction will yield oil for sure, but who smokes wax ? I've sent the second run results to the lab and it's a waste of time, effort, and ends up being an aweful cut to pure honey oil, as seen by the dark stuff on the market, or the dripping tar in a jar they call oil.
so, although a soxhlet extractor is a cool piece of equipment, its a waste of money is this field, but we sure could use a chemist in the thread to help us out later
thanks,
pharma

 

[Dan Kone]

ok. report from my first run...

came out ok. I didn't pack it up real tight, about an ounce of ground up shake. Ended up with 5 grams of oil.

Recovery ended up pretty much a total fail. I was only able to recover ~ 120g of tane. Not sure what that's all about.

But one thing I wasn't expecting was the purity I got. I heated it at ~ 220 for about 15 minutes or so then ran it through the vac purge once and it's half way to being shatter already. On the second purge (after heating oil to 115) it got all the bubbles out. No more bubbles!



Now to test it out! GN everyone.

 

[pharmacoping]

wow, 5g from one ounce!!! thats alot. how long did it take to run all the tane through the herb?

 

[Matt Rize]

As someone who has working in a oraganic chemistry lab, I find this entire process painful inificient and wasteful. First I have say that I worked in a large university lab, working if solvents and organic compounds, purifying and all of that fun stuff. And not once did we use a flammable gas to purify a compound, there are much better alternatives.

While the system might look nice, I find it ridiculous the amount of time the compound and the solvent come in contact are not enough to time to do a proper extraction. You are losing a lot of your yield. I suggest getting a soxhlet extractor, it is not very hard to set up, cheaper, and much more effiecient. You are also better off using hexane since, again it will be cheaper, and much more effiecient. Hexane also has to added benifit of being easier to get, and much much much less likely to blow up. And no worries about metal impurities since you are only dealing with glass.


I mean no disrespect to anyone who has already bought it. Just wanted to give the opinion of a guy who had to do this stuff for hrs on end. If anyone wants to know how to set a system up using a soxhlet, feel free to ask. Soxhlet has to benefit of being able to run for hrs to get to maximum yield from the herb, and much better retention of solvent.

I would like to note that I have not made bho, but have extracted plenty of organic compounds from substance. Just your friendly neighborhood chemist.

Edit: I forgot to add you can set up the system using n-butane, but that would just be harder, much harder.

From my research, being exposed to hexane is much more toxic than butane. And for those with "open systems" using hexane is a really bad idea. For closed recovery systems, its a solid option.

 

[dontexist21]

From working with hexane, it is no more toxic then working with butane, and still safer. hexane will completely evaporate give enough time. And you still have the benefit of being able to reuse hexane.

As long as you wear gloves and take the proper precautions. My main concern with the system is from an inefficiency and solvent waste standpoint is not that great. It just seems so tedious for something I could set up with other equipment, and get the same results if not better. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

 

[dontexist21]

I own a soxhlet extractor and it is great, especially for Rick Simpson oil or the like. Reason for that is the near complete extraction of all compounds in the material.
after a soxhlet extraction you'll be left with a pile of muddy goo containing every wax and carcinogen in the plant. You'll see soon after making bho that this short time of contact between solvent and herb is a necessary function of removing most all active compunds, leaving the nasties behind. a subsequent soak, or another extraction will yield oil for sure, but who smokes wax ? I've sent the second run results to the lab and it's a waste of time, effort, and ends up being an aweful cut to pure honey oil, as seen by the dark stuff on the market, or the dripping tar in a jar they call oil.
so, although a soxhlet extractor is a cool piece of equipment, its a waste of money is this field, but we sure could use a chemist in the thread to help us out later
thanks,
pharma

How long and what solvent did you use to run it? There are ways to purify the wax out with cold acetone. The machine is a giant soxhlet extractor in my opinion just a lot less efficient. Have you ever tried running ice cold water through the condenser making the less likely to dissolve the waxes?

 

[pharmacoping]

Butane is non toxic !!, it evaporates completely !. you are not ingesting it, or breathing it when using oil. it's in your cooking spray ! used in the food industry for over 100 years ! it's not "stuck" in oil,wax,or budder after processing.
my soxy extractor has been on the shelf since the day I saw I could qwiso and get stellar results, comparitively. I'm not knocking the equip, great forever piece necessary for the alchemist, but not for the pot head. theres old coffee pot rice cooker methods too, but thats old school tar shit product. This extract is near pure active compound and wax free. there is no mold spores or sugars, or chlorophyls, or starch, or anything except what matches polarity with butane the fastest. it is the premium extract solvent for marijuana currently, not egotistically. c02 extraction yields less, but has the added benefit of costing 10k and not being flammable.

I do not wear gloves when extracting, or have fans running, or ever hear or smell butane. there is no exposure, and it allows proper recycling of the extract solvent. without fumes ever. I have run 14 runs with the same 400grams of butane with only a 70 gram loss of solvent. This goes along way in value added, if you've paid for vector you know. I think you should challenge the tamisium design patent, and sell it here cheaper first. his base model is a thousand dolars, cmon man, whats your labor rate ? machined stainless steel, several 30$ safety valves, a luxury custom fit padded case, perfect tested weldments, stainless braided hose, stupid simple, and will last forever. I got some lawn work over here if you're interested dude? working in industry briefly will show you what custom work, testing, certification,safety protocols, patent research, patent fee, printing and insurance really costs. this thing is worth twice what he charged me.

 

[pharmacoping]

sorry, I have a reflux contraption, not sohxlet, sorry, used acetone in it, naptha too.

I have frozen the vessel with the herb inside, no noticeable differences to me. theres not a whole lot of wax with just a few minutes of extraction. but I have frozen the extract, removed the wax, and got a cleaner product for sure, taffy like.

 

[dontexist21]

Butane is non toxic !!, it evaporates completely !. you are not ingesting it, or breathing it when using oil. it's in your cooking spray ! used in the food industry for over 100 years ! it's not "stuck" in oil,wax,or budder after processing.
my soxy extractor has been on the shelf since the day I saw I could qwiso and get stellar results, comparitively. I'm not knocking the equip, great forever piece necessary for the alchemist, but not for the pot head. theres old coffee pot rice cooker methods too, but thats old school tar shit product. This extract is near pure active compound and wax free. there is no mold spores or sugars, or chlorophyls, or starch, or anything except what matches polarity with butane the fastest. it is the premium extract solvent for marijuana currently, not egotistically. c02 extraction yields less, but has the added benefit of costing 10k and not being flammable.

I do not wear gloves when extracting, or have fans running, or ever hear or smell butane. there is no exposure, and it allows proper recycling of the extract solvent. without fumes ever. I have run 14 runs with the same 400grams of butane with only a 70 gram loss of solvent. This goes along way in value added, if you've paid for vector you know. I think you should challenge the tamisium design patent, and sell it here cheaper first. his base model is a thousand dolars, cmon man, whats your labor rate ? machined stainless steel, several 30$ safety valves, a luxury custom fit padded case, perfect tested weldments, stainless braided hose, stupid simple, and will last forever. I got some lawn work over here if you're interested dude? working in industry briefly will show you what custom work, testing, certification,safety protocols, patent research, patent fee, printing and insurance really costs. this thing is worth twice what he charged me.

All I said when I looked at the machine is that it works like a giant soxhlet extractor, the concept is really similar, if not the same. I have no interest in selling anything, just providing free information about devices the generaly public might not know about. While I will admit if you wish to use n-butane this system is far the best out there. But when it comes to other solvents it provides no clear advantage and many clear disadvantages imho.

I think having a non-bias opinion with any new instrument is very important, and there are people who would prefer not to use butane, and hexane is a solvent which given enough time will evaporate off, especially under a vacuum. Or people who would wish for a cheaper alternative, and do not mind playing around with a few more variables.

Final Note:

I suggest everyone get a vacuum chamber to dry their product, safer and easier then using hot water bath.

Cheers

 

[dontexist21]

sorry, I have a reflux contraption, not sohxlet, sorry, used acetone in it, naptha too.

I have frozen the vessel with the herb inside, no noticeable differences to me. theres not a whole lot of wax with just a few minutes of extraction. but I have frozen the extract, removed the wax, and got a cleaner product for sure, taffy like.

Ahh I see, well a soxhlet, works differently from what I can imagine you used. The herb would be put into a column, alot like the tanisium. The solvent is pored on the column and when it goes through the material it is then filtered with a cloth or mesh into a flask. The flask would be a warm water bath, temp will vary on solvent. The solvent vapor then travels up a separate tube hitting a condenser with water going through it and back down the column. The condenser can have ice cold water running through it allowing for cold solvent which would be less likely to collect wax, regular water works to, but colder the solvent less wax gets collected. It can continue doing this over and over again till you believe the product is ready. Where the solvent can then be distilled into another flask and product purified if you wish.

I would think that this method would give a lot less wax since the solvent is cold and product filtered. I am in the process of planning a building a small home lab, so hopefully in the next few months when I can get my cash and supplies ready.

Cheers

 

[Matt Rize]

Good read on hexane from the govt. Hexane exposure has serious health risks, more so than butane from my research.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp113.pdf

1.4 HOW CAN n-HEXANE ENTER AND LEAVE MY BODY?
n-Hexane can enter your body through your lungs if it is in the air you breathe. It can also enter your body through your stomach and intestines if it is in your drinking water or food, or through your skin if you come into contact with it. How much n-hexane enters your body depends on how long you are exposed and the amount to which you are exposed.
Once you inhale n-hexane, it goes into your bloodstream and is carried to all the organs in your body. Enzymes in your liver break down n-hexane. If you are exposed to high concentrations of n-hexane over a long period, one of these breakdown products may cause damage to your nervous system. Most of these breakdown products leave your body in the urine within a day or two. n-Hexane and its breakdown products are not stored in your body.
1.5 HOW CAN n-HEXANE AFFECT MY HEALTH?
Almost all the people known to have had their health affected by exposure to n-hexane used it at work. In the 1960s and early 1970s several outbreaks of nerve disorders occurred among shoe workers in Japan and Italy. Doctors determined the disease was caused by the workers breathing air containing high concentrations of n-hexane. The n-hexane came from glues and solvents the workers used in assembling the shoes. In one group of workers in Japan, it was estimated that the workers who became ill had been breathing air containing 500-2,500 parts n-hexane per million parts air (500-2500 ppm) for 8-14 hours a day for 6 months to several years. The frost symptom that the affected workers had was a feeling of numbness in their feet and hands. This was followed by muscle weakness in the feet and lower legs. If exposure continued, the symptoms grew worse. In some workers, paralysis of the arms and legs developed. When the affected workers were examined by doctors, the nerves controlling the muscles in their arms and legs were found to be damaged. The medical term for this condition is “peripheral neuropathy” (peripheral means outside the brain and spinal cord; neuropathy means nerve damage). Fortunately, once the workers were removed from exposure to n-hexane they recovered within 6 months to a year, although some of the more severely affected did not fully recover for 1-2 years.n-HEXANE 5 1. PUBLIC HEALTH STATEMENT
Poor ventilation of the work area was a major factor in all of these cases. Workers who became ill usually worked in their homes or in very small workshops. Since the 1970s workplace ventilation has been improved and levels of n-hexane in the air have been lower. There have been very few cases of nerve damage from n-hexane since 1980. A few people have also suffered nerve damage from “sniffing” products containing n-hexane. Like cases in the workplace, the number of cases due to sniffing has fallen since the 1970s.
It is not known if oral or skin exposure to n-hexane can cause these effects in people. There have been very few documented exposures to n-hexane by these routes in people.
To protect the public from the harmful effects of toxic chemicals and to find ways to treat people who have been harmed, scientists use many tests.
One way to see if a chemical will hurt people is to learn how the chemical is absorbed, used, and released by the body; for some chemicals, animal testing may be necessary. Animal testing may also be used to identify health effects such as cancer or birth defects. Without laboratory animals, scientists would lose a basic method to get information needed to make wise decisions to protect public health. Scientists have the responsibility to treat research animals with care and compassion. Laws today protect the welfare of research animals, and scientists must comply with strict animal care guidelines.
When rats are exposed to n-hexane in the air, they show signs of damage to their nervous systems very similar to those seen in people who became ill after workplace exposure. As in people, these effects in rats depend on the concentrations of n-hexane in air and how long exposure lasts. Studies in rats showed that a breakdown product of n-hexane (called 2,5-hexanedione) causes the nerve damage, not n-hexane itself. Testing for 2,5-hexanedione in the urine can be used to determine if a person has been exposed to potentially harmful amounts of n-hexane. Studies in rats also showed that n-hexane can cause nerve damage when given orally in very large doses.
n-HEXANE 6 1. PUBLIC HEALTH STATEMENT
At very high levels of n-hexane in air (1,000-10,000 ppm), signs of damage to sperm-forming cells in male rats occurred. Damage to the lungs occurred in rabbits and mice. People have rarely been exposed to these high levels of n-hexane, so it is not known if these effects would occur in people.
It is not known if exposure to n-hexane can affect fertility in people. Experiments done with animals that were fed or breathed in n-hexane did not show any effect on fertility.
There is no evidence that exposure to n-hexane increases the risk of cancer in people. No reliable information is available on whether n-hexane causes cancer in animals. In an animal experiment with commercial hexane (which contains n-hexane), an increase in liver cancer was found in female mice after exposure for 2 years. No increase was found in male mice or in rats of either sex. Commercial hexane is a mixture, and we do not know what parts of the mixture caused the cancer in the female mice. n-Hexane has not been characterized for carcinogenicity by the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC), or the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).
1.6 HOW CAN n-HEXANE AFFECT CHILDREN?
This section discusses potential health effects from exposures during the period from conception to maturity at 18 years of age in humans. Potential effects on children resulting from exposures of the parents are also considered.
Harmful effects from exposure to n-hexane have mainly occurred in adults. This is because most known cases have occurred in workers. However, it is probable that if children were exposed to n-hexane at levels that cause harmful effects in adults, similar effects would occur. We do not know whether children differ from adults in their susceptibility to health effects from n-hexane exposure. Only a few animal studies have compared the effects of n-hexane between adults and young animals. In these studies, the young animals were somewhat less likely to have harmful
n-HEXANE
7
1. PUBLIC HEALTH STATEMENT
effects on their nervous system from breathing n-hexane than the adults, but more likely to die from a large oral dose.
Experiments in rats and mice have shown little effect of n-hexane exposure on the development of the fetus. It is probable that n-hexane and its breakdown products can cross the placenta and also be excreted in breast milk, but no accurate measurements have been made in people. n-Hexane and its breakdown products have been detected in the fetus when pregnant rats were exposed to n-hexane.