Keynesian Economics

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Yes, using Government spending as part of the formula for GDP is in error. Using GDP growth to set monetary policy is also broken because you can always have a positive GDP as long as government spends enough. Since Government cannot raise taxes enough to offset this deficit without massive discontent, they resort to other insidious schemes such as Inflation and check kiting.

By devaluing the currency, government can pay off a significant portion of its debt by stealing the purchasing power of all the citizens, this is done by inflating the money supply which causes prices on real goods to go up.

By continually rolling over debt ad infinitum and just printing more bonds to pay for it all is really not any different than kiting checks over and over. By paying for one check with another and just paying the service fee (Bond Coupon rate) every time you kite another. This will happen until the wheels fall off our economy because there is NO political will in the leadership to make the hard choices.

Mathematically the debt is impossible to pay and sometime in the future the USA will default on its obligations, that is when the real suffering begins. Greece will start the ball rolling, and while Spain gets ready to be next, the EU will slump which will cause the US Dollar to gain alot of strength. Commodity prices will deflate, but then after the EU economy is thoroughly cooked, it will be our turn. Watch as those same depressed commodity prices skyrocket and the dollar index dives, inflation will skyrocket, bond coupons will skyrocket also, but hardly anyone will buy them after being eviscerated in most markets and having been left with mere pennies on the dollar.

Of course, the whole world might come to a stop if the derivatives scheme comes undone. Derivatives are hedged with CDS instruments. If countries default those CDS will be paid. You don't want to know how badly the world will hurt if that happens and all of a sudden people are wanting their slice of the $4.2 Quadrillion derivative pie. Make no mistake, if the black swan of the derivative market having the bottom fall out, means every economy in the world will be pretty much crushed. It would make the Great Depression seem like a holiday for many.

The USA practices Neo-Keynesian economics, not Keynesian. Even Lord Keynes said that his ideas would not work if the country had too much debt. Keynes specifically stated that government MUST pay off it's debt during the good times in order to be able to create it during bad times. We don't do that, we just keep adding to the debt, especially after VP Dick Cheney stated that "Deficits don't matter". Even Clinton didn't pay any of the debt off, he just fucked around with the accounting of it to hide some and move some off the balance sheet to look good.

Money isn't power, the ability to create and spend that money for services and items is what brings power, you don't think the politicians are going to give that up do you? Right now they can just buy your votes, it's so easy especially after the 17th Amendment was passed and Senators were to be elected by the easily duped public. All in the name of "Democracy".
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Yes, using Government spending as part of the formula for GDP is in error. Using GDP growth to set monetary policy is also broken because you can always have a positive GDP as long as government spends enough. Since Government cannot raise taxes enough to offset this deficit without massive discontent, they resort to other insidious schemes such as Inflation and check kiting.

By devaluing the currency, government can pay off a significant portion of its debt by stealing the purchasing power of all the citizens, this is done by inflating the money supply which causes prices on real goods to go up.

By continually rolling over debt ad infinitum and just printing more bonds to pay for it all is really not any different than kiting checks over and over. By paying for one check with another and just paying the service fee (Bond Coupon rate) every time you kite another. This will happen until the wheels fall off our economy because there is NO political will in the leadership to make the hard choices.

Mathematically the debt is impossible to pay and sometime in the future the USA will default on its obligations, that is when the real suffering begins. Greece will start the ball rolling, and while Spain gets ready to be next, the EU will slump which will cause the US Dollar to gain alot of strength. Commodity prices will deflate, but then after the EU economy is thoroughly cooked, it will be our turn. Watch as those same depressed commodity prices skyrocket and the dollar index dives, inflation will skyrocket, bond coupons will skyrocket also, but hardly anyone will buy them after being eviscerated in most markets and having been left with mere pennies on the dollar.

Of course, the whole world might come to a stop if the derivatives scheme comes undone. Derivatives are hedged with CDS instruments. If countries default those CDS will be paid. You don't want to know how badly the world will hurt if that happens and all of a sudden people are wanting their slice of the $4.2 Quadrillion derivative pie. Make no mistake, if the black swan of the derivative market having the bottom fall out, means every economy in the world will be pretty much crushed. It would make the Great Depression seem like a holiday for many.

The USA practices Neo-Keynesian economics, not Keynesian. Even Lord Keynes said that his ideas would not work if the country had too much debt. Keynes specifically stated that government MUST pay off it's debt during the good times in order to be able to create it during bad times. We don't do that, we just keep adding to the debt, especially after VP Dick Cheney stated that "Deficits don't matter". Even Clinton didn't pay any of the debt off, he just fucked around with the accounting of it to hide some and move some off the balance sheet to look good.

Money isn't power, the ability to create and spend that money for services and items is what brings power, you don't think the politicians are going to give that up do you? Right now they can just buy your votes, it's so easy especially after the 17th Amendment was passed and Senators were to be elected by the easily duped public. All in the name of "Democracy".

I dont know whether to *like* this or cry... but it is too true...
 

ThatGuy113

Well-Known Member
Yes, using Government spending as part of the formula for GDP is in error. Using GDP growth to set monetary policy is also broken because you can always have a positive GDP as long as government spends enough. Since Government cannot raise taxes enough to offset this deficit without massive discontent, they resort to other insidious schemes such as Inflation and check kiting.

By devaluing the currency, government can pay off a significant portion of its debt by stealing the purchasing power of all the citizens, this is done by inflating the money supply which causes prices on real goods to go up.

By continually rolling over debt ad infinitum and just printing more bonds to pay for it all is really not any different than kiting checks over and over. By paying for one check with another and just paying the service fee (Bond Coupon rate) every time you kite another. This will happen until the wheels fall off our economy because there is NO political will in the leadership to make the hard choices.

Mathematically the debt is impossible to pay and sometime in the future the USA will default on its obligations, that is when the real suffering begins. Greece will start the ball rolling, and while Spain gets ready to be next, the EU will slump which will cause the US Dollar to gain alot of strength. Commodity prices will deflate, but then after the EU economy is thoroughly cooked, it will be our turn. Watch as those same depressed commodity prices skyrocket and the dollar index dives, inflation will skyrocket, bond coupons will skyrocket also, but hardly anyone will buy them after being eviscerated in most markets and having been left with mere pennies on the dollar.

Of course, the whole world might come to a stop if the derivatives scheme comes undone. Derivatives are hedged with CDS instruments. If countries default those CDS will be paid. You don't want to know how badly the world will hurt if that happens and all of a sudden people are wanting their slice of the $4.2 Quadrillion derivative pie. Make no mistake, if the black swan of the derivative market having the bottom fall out, means every economy in the world will be pretty much crushed. It would make the Great Depression seem like a holiday for many.

The USA practices Neo-Keynesian economics, not Keynesian. Even Lord Keynes said that his ideas would not work if the country had too much debt. Keynes specifically stated that government MUST pay off it's debt during the good times in order to be able to create it during bad times. We don't do that, we just keep adding to the debt, especially after VP Dick Cheney stated that "Deficits don't matter". Even Clinton didn't pay any of the debt off, he just fucked around with the accounting of it to hide some and move some off the balance sheet to look good.

Money isn't power, the ability to create and spend that money for services and items is what brings power, you don't think the politicians are going to give that up do you? Right now they can just buy your votes, it's so easy especially after the 17th Amendment was passed and Senators were to be elected by the easily duped public. All in the name of "Democracy".
I agree with you. I just wish more people knew how it all worked so that more responses would be like this one. Human incompetence is always the reason theories struggle or fail when applied to the real world. Its like choosing between three different boats to go down a river on. The only caveat is that they all have a leak, you just have to attempt to choose the best boat but its not always clear. Its just a shitty situation in either boat. China seems to have figured out how to balance the theocracy of the party with the cooperation of capitalistic economies. They might make it the longest out of the group. I have a feeling the world spotlight is about to shift to South East Asia and surrounding countries who are just starting to tap into international economics for their own good.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Yes, using Government spending as part of the formula for GDP is in error. Using GDP growth to set monetary policy is also broken because you can always have a positive GDP as long as government spends enough. Since Government cannot raise taxes enough to offset this deficit without massive discontent, they resort to other insidious schemes such as Inflation and check kiting.

By devaluing the currency, government can pay off a significant portion of its debt by stealing the purchasing power of all the citizens, this is done by inflating the money supply which causes prices on real goods to go up.

By continually rolling over debt ad infinitum and just printing more bonds to pay for it all is really not any different than kiting checks over and over. By paying for one check with another and just paying the service fee (Bond Coupon rate) every time you kite another. This will happen until the wheels fall off our economy because there is NO political will in the leadership to make the hard choices.

Mathematically the debt is impossible to pay and sometime in the future the USA will default on its obligations, that is when the real suffering begins. Greece will start the ball rolling, and while Spain gets ready to be next, the EU will slump which will cause the US Dollar to gain alot of strength. Commodity prices will deflate, but then after the EU economy is thoroughly cooked, it will be our turn. Watch as those same depressed commodity prices skyrocket and the dollar index dives, inflation will skyrocket, bond coupons will skyrocket also, but hardly anyone will buy them after being eviscerated in most markets and having been left with mere pennies on the dollar.

Of course, the whole world might come to a stop if the derivatives scheme comes undone. Derivatives are hedged with CDS instruments. If countries default those CDS will be paid. You don't want to know how badly the world will hurt if that happens and all of a sudden people are wanting their slice of the $4.2 Quadrillion derivative pie. Make no mistake, if the black swan of the derivative market having the bottom fall out, means every economy in the world will be pretty much crushed. It would make the Great Depression seem like a holiday for many.

The USA practices Neo-Keynesian economics, not Keynesian. Even Lord Keynes said that his ideas would not work if the country had too much debt. Keynes specifically stated that government MUST pay off it's debt during the good times in order to be able to create it during bad times. We don't do that, we just keep adding to the debt, especially after VP Dick Cheney stated that "Deficits don't matter". Even Clinton didn't pay any of the debt off, he just fucked around with the accounting of it to hide some and move some off the balance sheet to look good.

Money isn't power, the ability to create and spend that money for services and items is what brings power, you don't think the politicians are going to give that up do you? Right now they can just buy your votes, it's so easy especially after the 17th Amendment was passed and Senators were to be elected by the easily duped public. All in the name of "Democracy".
Well said. :clap:
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Well the counter argument to my argument is that during recessions, consumption is less than equilibrium therefore government should supplement the deadweight loss by consuming. However this theory fails to address several issues:

Government spending further hinders consumption and investment regardless because of taxation and inflation.
Government spending will continue after the recession.
Inflationary methods of spending is damaging to our currency.
Government spending creates bureaucratic institutions.
Government spending invites fraud, waste, and abuse.


I think stimulus spending, if anything, prolongs the agony.
Inflationary spending also guarantees huge malinvestment.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
I agree with you. I just wish more people knew how it all worked so that more responses would be like this one. Human incompetence is always the reason theories struggle or fail when applied to the real world. Its like choosing between three different boats to go down a river on. The only caveat is that they all have a leak, you just have to attempt to choose the best boat but its not always clear. Its just a shitty situation in either boat. China seems to have figured out how to balance the theocracy of the party with the cooperation of capitalistic economies. They might make it the longest out of the group. I have a feeling the world spotlight is about to shift to South East Asia and surrounding countries who are just starting to tap into international economics for their own good.
You mistakenly believe the system is failing those who created it. Quite the opposite I'd argue.
 

RoninAmok

Active Member
Fuck you you hybrid driving yuppie motherfukcer. That there GDP equation tooook errrrjobs!!!!!!!!!!!!! bongsmilie


If u don like free market economic principles, then youuuuu can geeeeeeeeeettt outtt


And folks who make statements such as in the above need to have the stonies to come do it themselves , I'm tired of hearing that shit regardless of WHICH side it comes from , so sorry clown but this country IS NOT for ONE group that marches in lockstep with each other.

And that includes the mindless drones such as yourself that fock behind a given candidate , be it O'Bullshitbama , RipEmOffandHowRomney , Sanctified(asknHe'lltellyou)Santorum , or PoliticallyPrurientPaul..ALL of whom are a buncha corrupt assholes.

Why *ANY* of y'all would think that a SINGLE one of these assholes has the " best interest " of the public at large or indeed the common man " at heart" is beyond me.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
And folks who make statements such as in the above need to have the stonies to come do it themselves , I'm tired of hearing that shit regardless of WHICH side it comes from , so sorry clown but this country IS NOT for ONE group that marches in lockstep with each other.

And that includes the mindless drones such as yourself that fock behind a given candidate , be it O'Bullshitbama , RipEmOffandHowRomney , Sanctified(asknHe'lltellyou)Santorum , or PoliticallyPrurientPaul..ALL of whom are a buncha corrupt assholes.

Why *ANY* of y'all would think that a SINGLE one of these assholes has the " best interest " of the public at large or indeed the common man " at heart" is beyond me.

If you read any post from this thread but this one you would know that was an attempt at humor. troll.
 

RoninAmok

Active Member
If you read any post from this thread but this one you would know that was an attempt at humor. troll.


You have no humor , you're just yet another whining Paulista Lemming who expects everyone to march in lockstep behind your Clown Prince. Who himself understands *neither* the Keynesian OR the Austrian school of thought as regards economics.


Rather interesting that you like to throw your weight around , ya seem to crumble right quick though.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
You have no humor , you're just yet another whining Paulista Lemming who expects everyone to march in lockstep behind your Clown Prince. Who himself understands *neither* the Keynesian OR the Austrian school of thought as regards economics.


Rather interesting that you like to throw your weight around , ya seem to crumble right quick though.
Lol....:clap:
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
Exactly............................no further discussion of Economics , of any school of thought. Crumble , crumble........

Its hard to argue with something that has no substance bongsmilie . Ive been trolled before believe me. With my sig and avatar all of you anti-paul prejudging jackasses attack me, it is funny though. I never claimed to know everything, and an excellent tool of learning is discussion. I learn a lot from these boards believe it or not. Happy trolling.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
And folks who make statements such as in the above need to have the stonies to come do it themselves , I'm tired of hearing that shit regardless of WHICH side it comes from , so sorry clown but this country IS NOT for ONE group that marches in lockstep with each other.

And that includes the mindless drones such as yourself that fock behind a given candidate , be it O'Bullshitbama , RipEmOffandHowRomney , Sanctified(asknHe'lltellyou)Santorum , or PoliticallyPrurientPaul..ALL of whom are a buncha corrupt assholes.

Why *ANY* of y'all would think that a SINGLE one of these assholes has the " best interest " of the public at large or indeed the common man " at heart" is beyond me.
I see you have not watched South Park.

[video=youtube;768h3Tz4Qik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik[/video]
 

RoninAmok

Active Member
Its hard to argue with something that has no substance bongsmilie . Ive been trolled before believe me. With my sig and avatar all of you anti-paul prejudging jackasses attack me, it is funny though. I never claimed to know everything, and an excellent tool of learning is discussion. I learn a lot from these boards believe it or not. Happy trolling.



Standard Paulista Used Dodge Number 43............ " you have no substance" , they sing this one in a Chorus Line in a vain attempt to make it come true.

Note that there is ZERO address of specifics. A thread on economics , but ZERO direct address of Paul's economic policies , the Paulista's all seem to be lined up at the KoolAid booth and the Mindless Faux Libertarian Candy stand.

That seems just a MUCH more productive approach than actually directly addressing ANY of the issues.
 

RoninAmok

Active Member
I see you have not watched South Park.

]


No you don't " see" , you're making an erroneous assumption. And you fail to " see" that many others don't " see" any humor in the promotion of a thorough and complete FAKE as some sort of Demi-God.


I ain't joing the Paulista Personality Cult...............sorry.
 

Parker

Well-Known Member
Note that there is ZERO address of specifics. A thread on economics , but ZERO direct address of Paul's economic policies , the Paulista's all seem to be lined up at the KoolAid booth and the Mindless Faux Libertarian Candy stand.

That seems just a MUCH more productive approach than actually directly addressing ANY of the issues.
Because you are uninformed of Ron Pauls economic policies is your fault. Your posts you have no substance to them, no thought process just because.

Many years before the housing collapse Austrian economics told us it would happen. These are the same people who told us of the stock market bubble and crash before the great depression.
Austrain economics says to allow the free market to take it's course and quit having governmebnt manipulate the economy so their buddies can make it big, all off of the backs of the working person. Getting government out of spending and lowering taxes got us out of the depression of 1920. Taxes and spending were cut by 40 percent over two years time and unemployment went from 12 to under 4. So next time you spew garbage about Ron Paul and Austrian economics bring something factual to the table instead of hollow talking head points.

There is a bond bubble going on now too. Austrian economics mentions this. That is something else you don't know.
 

lifegoesonbrah

Well-Known Member
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....................yeah I'm from South Texas , Paul's HOME district and I'm " unaware of Paul's economic policies"......ROTFLMAO.


Oh and I know othing about the Austrian school of economic thought , this coming from a guy who can't even SPELL A U S T R I A N correctly and spouts the SAME rehashed PLAGIARISED Von Mises that your Clown Prince Paul spouts...


And of course YET more of the typical assumptions native to Paulista Lemmings , you'll of course NOW be able to provide **verifiable PROOF** that I'm " unaware of the bond bubble"..


As typical of Pussy Paulistas you're still attacking the individual rather than address the GLARING set of WARTS your man wears surrounding these issues.

So your argument is that he misspelled Austrian one time? Do you have anything to say about Keynesian Theory relative to government spending? Because that is what this thread is about, not Ron Paul. If you want a Ron Paul hate thread, there is plenty of them, take a pick. Quit spamming nonsense.

Othing is not a word.
 
Top