Mycorrihza Myth

[poplars]

Interesting stuff...I think part of the issue is nutrient companies include Trichoderma in their formulas, but market it as a Myco product...Aurora's Oregonism, AN's Piranha, Botanicare's Zho...all of these product include both Mycorrhizae and Trichoderma fungi. People add these products, see results, and attribute their success to Mycorrhizae. The problem with these products is Trichoderma colonizes at a much faster rate than Mycorrhizae...and is so aggressive it actually feeds on Mycorrhizae...so at the end of the day, which strain (of fungus) is making your plants look so good? General Hydroponics has it right IMO...a Trichoderma/Bacillus product...and a stand alone Myco product. IMHO...if you're adding bloom nutrients...or especially boosters...stick with bacteria products and Trichoderma fungi...save the Mycos for super soil and/or outdoor gardens.

doesn't hurt to throw it all in and see what works... I believe certain plants will allow that to grow better than others, some plants may favor myco over trichoderma? who knows. either way it doesn't hurt to use a mix such as this and many people see AMAZING results.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

one product, OREGONISM XL.

Hey poplurs, can you check the back of you package for endo population numbers?..........I don't undestand why they include ecto's, they are for trees..

 

[richinweed]

a bucket of forest soil in my mix supplies all the myco's i need. i saw a 32 oz jar of myco for 225.00USD........lol.

4 sure , its good to see someone break free of all the cartoon crap. forest soil contains many benificials , it would seem thru reading that the bio load contains many different components, the ones that will do well in your enviroment will thrive while the others will simply become lesser components and dormancy....., ppl pay way to much for things that are readily available in our enviroment,

 

[ECHydroceuticals]

There are 3 areas of debate when it comes to these products...

1. Ecto Myco can't form a relationship with Cannabis.
2. Endo Myco won't colonize when adequate Phosphorus is available/present.
3. Trichoderma will dominate the rhizosphere...trumping the Mycos.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

vvvvvvvvvv quote vvvvvvvvvvv http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~siemann/pdf/Nijjer_AmMidNat2010_163.pdf

Mycorrhizal colonization frequency may change under different levels of soil fertility that
may alter the net costs and benefits received by plant hosts (Hetrick
et al., 1989a; Johnson,
1993; Johnson
et al., 1997; Marler et al., 1999). Changes in the relative benefits of
mycorrhizae to different plant hosts are important because they may influence plant species’
coexistence, biodiversity and ecosystem function of grassland communities (Hetrick
et al.,
1988; Hartnett
et al., 1993; Johnson, 1993; van der Heijden et al., 1998; Callaway et al., 2003).
Fertilization may decrease or eliminate the net benefits that mycorrhizae provide to infected
plants (manifested as increased growth and survival) because the plant’s cost of carbon
allocation to the fungus may not be offset by the benefits of hosting fungi when soil
nutrients are less limiting to the plant (Johnson et al., 1992, 1997; Johnson, 1993). Thus, we
predict that if fertilization reduces the benefits of mycorrhizae to plants, then plants will
decrease their frequency of association as fertilization increases (‘‘Production Hypothesis’’
hereafter, developed by Hetrick, 1991).

In addition, the overall benefit of mycorrhizae to plants may decrease with fertilization if
the fungal symbionts allocate more resources to growth and reproduction at the expense of
nutrient exchange with the plant host. If plants in high fertility soils allocate less carbon to
root exudates, mycorrhizal strains that are more aggressive colonizers may proliferate
because they convert more of the plant’s resources to internal fungal growth and respiration
instead of nutrient gathering and exchange (Peng
et al., 1993; Graham et al., 1996; Johnson

et al.
, 1997). For example, high fertility may promote shifts in fungal community

composition that promote the proliferation of less generous fungi. Rapid fungal colonizers
that can overcome plant control of mycorrhizal colonization rates and carbon allocation

would be at an advantage over slower fungal colonizers sensitive to plant regulation
(Johnson
et al., 1997). Rapid utilization of non-structural carbohydrates by aggressive fungal

colonizers would result in increased belowground costs to plants associated with the
construction and maintenance of intra- and extraradical fungal structures (Peng
et al., 1993;

Graham
et al., 1996). We predict that if fertilization reduces plant exudates and favors shifts

towards a more aggressive, mycorrhizal community composition, then fertilization will
increase the production of structures associated with growth and storage (hyphae and
vesicles) relative to those associated with the plant host (arbuscules and coils) (‘‘Investment
Hypothesis’’ hereafter, developed by Johnson, 1993; Johnson
et al., 1997, 2006).

If high fertility favors mycorrhizal fungi that reduce allocation to structures for nutrient
exchange between the fungi and plant (arbuscules and coils) and increase allocation to
structures for internal storage and growth (vesicles and intraradical hyphae), then the
benefits of the mycorrhizal symbionts for plant nutrition are anticipated to decrease
(Johnson
et al., 1997, 2003a).

 

[InfidelUniversity]

There are 3 areas of debate when it comes to these products...

3. Trichoderma will dominate the rhizosphere...trumping the Mycos.

Thanks man did not know this.....................

vvvvvvv quote vvvvvvv http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2011/02/trichoderma-in-hydroponic-systems/

[h=2]Trichoderma compatibility with Mycorrhizal fungi[/h]Arbuscular mycorrhizal (AMF) fungi are another wide spread, naturally occurring soil micro organism which forms a beneficial relationship with the roots of many plant species. Just as with Trichoderma species, enhanced growth and disease suppression has been well documented with the use of mycorrhizal fungi inoculated in the root zone of cropping plants [SUP](15)[/SUP] . Given that Trichoderma is such a strong predator and competitor of other species of fungi in the root zone, there has been concern in the past that negative interactions between Trichoderma and mycorrhizal inoculants could occur, thus making one or both fungi inactive and therefore incompatible. While numerous scientific studies have been carried out to determine if Trichoderma verses mycorrhizal antagonism does exist when both are introduced to the root zone of certain plant species, conflicting results have been reported.
The problem identifying if this sort of interaction does occur is that in biological systems there are multiple factors affecting the result. Not only are there many species of Trichoderma with different characteristics and abilities to predate other fungi, but mycorrhizal fungi also contain a number of species including Glomus claroideum, Glomus mosseae, Glomus intraradicesGlomus geosporum. Furthermore the conditions in which the fungi are introduced, the crop species tested, growing media, presence of other microbial life and a host of other factors affect the result of fungal interactions. While one study (Green et al, 1999) found that the Mycorrhizal fungi G. intraradices had an averse effect on Trichoderma harzianum, yet another study (Martinez-Medina et al, 2009) reported that combined inoculation with these two species provided better disease control results and a general synergistic effect than other Mycorrhizal species tested. and
Many other studies have found a synergist effect when Trichoderma was use in combination with certain species of Mycorrhizal fungi. It has been reported that dual inoculation of peat substrate with a mixture of 4 species of Mycorrhizal fungi and Trichoderma harzianum showed a significant effect on the growth and flowering of cyclamen plants [SUP](12)[/SUP], while another study found that more plant biomass was produced in a peat-perlite mixture when the mycorrhizal fungus Glomus mosseaeTrichoderma aureoviridae [SUP](13)[/SUP] . Other researchers have also reported that various microbial inoculants such as Trichoderma and others showed no negative effects on Mycorrhizal establishment [SUP](14)[/SUP], while others have reported that combinations of Mycorrhizal fungi species with Trichoderma harzianum and other beneficial fungi have a synergistic effect and give greater increases in growth and disease resistance when combined [SUP](15, 16, 17)[/SUP] . It has been suggested that the differing results reporting the influence of Mycorrhizal fungi on other micro organisms is probably not only due to the combination and species of Mycorrhizal fungi evaluated but also the conditions such as nutrient availability when the studies were carried out [SUP](20)[/SUP] . was combined with
The bulk of the scientific evidence suggests however that the species of Trichoderma and Mycorrhiza commonly used as inoculants in soil and hydroponics are compatible and potentially synergistic when used in combination. Trichoderma and Mycorrhiza carry out different but potentially very beneficial roles in the root zone of plants, involving not only protection from many pathogens, but also nutritional and growth benefits.





http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2433271?uid=3739560&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21100728212461

 

[InfidelUniversity]

break free of all the cartoon crap.

.................................

 

[ECHydroceuticals]

Nice read...yeah there seems to be quite a few conflicting studies out there...it's definitely a confusing relationship. There would be less of a debate if dispensaries were funding research instead of padding their pockets...ever come across studies on Hops? Close cousin to Cannabis...

 

[InfidelUniversity]

vvvvvvv quote, from Hemp Diseases and Pests: Management and Biological Control vvvvvvvv

http://books.google.com/books?id=cDCMiaORLYsC&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=hemp+and+mycorrhiza&source=bl&ots=bFS3GINXCX&sig=tgxLT3QagT4S8X2rWDZ_u_kXxGM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=bU6PT7KDAeWQiAKtrOGdAw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=hemp and mycorrhiza&f=false <<<great info here<<<<


In 1961 Mosse produced an atrificial relationship with VA in Cannabis by using an Endogone species. In 1997 McPartland and Cubeta documented naturally occuring VA mycorrhaza in feral hemp. They identified it as a Glomus species, probably ""Glomus Mossea"".............

 

[InfidelUniversity]

vvvvvv quote vvvvv

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=135447


I know some researchers who do work on mycorrhizae fungi. For a lab training course we examined some of the commercially available myrorrhizae innoculums. Most of them don't contain anything and are a total rip off. I can't remember the vendors though it was a long time ago. Anyway be careful with whom you buy from.
Odds are any plant that forms mycorrhizal relationships with fungi will be doing it regardless of whether or not you innoculate it. The only exceptions would be hydroponically grown plants and plants grown in sterilized soil (which may not remain sterile over the growth period but still..).
AM fungi in particular are everywhere. Endomycorrhizal fungi can be a bit more rare as far as I remember.

I know some fungi are very specific especially the endomychorizzae. I am a bit unsure how specific AM fungi are.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

ever come across studies on Hops? Close cousin to Cannabis...

OHHH, I like the way you think bro...............Check these links, no Endo strain is given tho...http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg04358.html

vvvvvvv quote vvvvvv


Mount Angel hops grower John Annen tried some spores to see if they would
help him root a difficult strain of hops in the greenhouse. He began using
them on everything after his success rate nearly doubled.

He said the hops treated with mycorrhizals have bigger root systems, need
less fertilizer and resist insects better, allowing him to skip one
application of insecticide.

"When I first heard about it I was very skeptical," he said. "I checked it
out with a few people at the college, field men, whatnot, and they told me
this was nothing new, it had been studied for years, but nobody went
anywhere with it. What this stuff can do is absolutely amazing."

Plants link up with specific fungi, so Mycorrhizal Applications makes
custom mixes for commercial clients in a liquid, powder or gel. The spores
can be mixed with potting soil, dripped on through irrigation, sprayed on
by crop-duster, or dropped in the soil at planting time.

The above-ground results produced by fungi could be achieved applying
fertilizer every two weeks, but 70 to 90 percent of nitrogen applied in
nurseries is not absorbed by the plants and ends up getting washed into
rivers, where it is a pollutant, Amaranthus said.

One inoculation of fungi lasts all year, costs pennies a plant, and
produces a bigger root system that is also resistant to disease.

"Nature has provided the template," Amaranthus said. "The problem is
education."








Here is a Hops and Phoshate vvvvvv quote vvvvvvv ..... A specific strain not determined. Low colonization levels in Hops.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/fr63157k34017w01/

In a continuing search for field sources of endomycorrhizal fungi that tolerate high levels of available phosphorus in soil, samples were obtained from long-established liberally fertilized hops (Humulus lupulus L.) and peppermint (Mentha piperita L.) fields. In hops fields, where extractable P (Bray) levels ranged from 21&#8211;196 ppm, spores of twoAcaulospora spp. and sixGlomus spp. were isolated. From peppermint fields with P levels of 44 to 244 ppm, spores of oneAcaulospora sp., fourGlomus spp. and oneGigaspora sp. were obtained. Vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizal (VAM) fungi were found colonizing most roots to some extent, despite the very high fertility of several sites. Although percentages of colonization in hops tended to be low, ranging from 0 to 9.3%, colonizations in peppermint roots were considerably higher averaging 26.5% between the sampled fields, notwithstanding P levels as high as 244 ppm. The functional benefit, neutrality, or detriment to plants of such high-P tolerant species remains to be determined.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

vvvvvvvvv Cannabis Glomus strain specific quote vvvvvvvvvvv From Microbeman

We all know that there is a plethora of products on the market with super attractive labeling and names. Super Ecto Screaming Eagle Myco, is fictional but representative of the crap one is confronted with. In reality if you are serious about getting endomycorrhizal fungi to colonize the roots of your plants you should know that, according to current science of which I am aware, there are only two known endomycorrhizal fungi species which colonize the roots of cannabis/hemp.

They are Glomus Intraradices and Glomus Mosseae. If you are looking for the maximum potential to colonize roots of this species, your chances go up with the higher spore/propagule count per gram. Unless you have a mix specifically formulated I know of no product which includes only these two fungal species.

 

[InfidelUniversity]

Here is a list of Products with Glomus intraradices and Glomus mosseae and their spore count; Please correct any mistakes or add to the list. Liquid products i just used 1ml/1gram conversion. Myke Pro - Ps3
ENDOMYCORRHIZAL (AM) FUNGI (spores/g) (spores/lb) Glomus intraradices 3 200 1 452 800 Myke - MGreenhouse WP

ENDOMYCORRHIZAL (AM) FUNGI	(spores/g)	(spores/lb)
Glomus intraradices:	800	363 000

Humbolt Nutrients - White Widow
Glomus intraradices 11,300 spores/ml <<<<????<<<<
Glomus mosseae 11,000 spores/ml
H.N.-Myco Madness spore/gram
Glomus intraradices 2.5/gram
Glomus mosseae 2.5/gram
H.N.- Myco Maxum spores/gram
Glomus int. 14/gram
Glomus mosseae 14/gram





G.H. Subcultur-M spores/gram
Glomus intraradices 14/gram 6,35o/lb
Glomus Mosseae 14/gram 6,350




Plant Success - Orca spores/gram/ml liquid

Glomus intraradices 18/gram
Glomus Mosseae 18/gram




Xtreme Gardening - Mycos spores/gram

Glomus intraradices 53/gram



Advanced Nutrients - Parana spores/gram

Glomus intraradices 78/ml Liquid
Glomus mosseae 78/ml
Glomus intraradices 34/gram Powder
Glomus mosseae 34/gram



Soil Moist- Mycorrhiza spores/gram

Glomus int. 17/gram
Glomus moss. 17/gram





Botanicare - ZHO spores/gram

Glomus int. 37/gram
Glomus moss. 37/gram

 

[johnyutah]

The mother load........ thats what this is..... Hey!!! I found it! I got the mother load on the fungi info-mation!!!

So Advanced has the highest count? I wonder if this is because their research is aimed at cannabis? What does it mean to have living vs I guess, "not living", fungi? Even if Advanced says there is ##grams in sauce, how much of this is active and useful? I have no idea what I'm talking about, but if this makes sense to you let me know...




The best thing about college-- it teaches you the value of sources. Excellent use of information and application here, I wish i know what to do with it; Soon enough I will. Sounds to me like a microscope, some extra time, and a few months, and someone could write a really good paper on the benefit of compost tea used on indoor cannabis plants >>I would read it... better yet i wish There was a sight that would publish papers specifically on marijuana, and then distribute it to the public for free. when i say papers i mean of a scholarly papers like the ones that are stored in databases for college. I love having access to that stuff.....I love getting high in the morning

 

[InfidelUniversity]

So Advanced has the highest count? I wonder if this is because their research is aimed at cannabis? What does it mean to have living vs I guess, "not living", fungi? Even if Advanced says there is ##grams in sauce, how much of this is active and useful?

Out of the ones I found spore counts for, Humbolt Nut. White Widow might be the highest(need weight oh one mill to get spores/gram ratio), then Myke Ps3, the Myke Greanhouse WD, and then Parrana......

In all Myco products the mycorrhiza are in the dormant stage. Apon touching roots they will then come out of dormancy from chemical signitures given off by roots exudates. Best application would be directy on roots....

 

[johnyutah]

ok So I have been looking for the best product.... you say humolts got the juice/powder/whatever it is/ I will get it. I am trying to develop an indoor organic method for apartment growers like myself. It may take a few years and for now i am just gathering info. What i HAve found is the amount of cooking is very important and then the following applications of teas and micros assist the environment in the soil in turn feeding your plants. Organics is very involved, but the research i am doing for growing MJ will greatly benefit me when i finally purchase my farm.fruits, veggies, nuggets, and honey bees!!!!

and worm shit

 

[ECHydroceuticals]

GH's SubCulture B is legit...thinking about giving Earth Juice's BioZeus a try...we'll see

 

[InfidelUniversity]

ok So I have been looking for the best product.... you say humolts got the juice/powder/whatever it is/ I will get it. I am trying to develop an indoor organic method for apartment growers like myself. It may take a few years and for now i am just gathering info. What i HAve found is the amount of cooking is very important and then the following applications of teas and micros assist the environment in the soil in turn feeding your plants. Organics is very involved, but the research i am doing for growing MJ will greatly benefit me when i finally purchase my farm.fruits, veggies, nuggets, and honey bees!!!!

and worm shit

W.W. numbers seem too high? Something is up. Myke is great just got to figure out how to get it....Super high spore counts are usually for seed coating in big ag...Granular is easier to work with when transplanting for us. Adding powder to water then top feeding isn't a good idea, it gets filtered out on the surface.....

Sweet bro land is what a man needs. Best growing info is where your at, we are the new world farmers!.....Bees kick ass, those things do so much for the human race. These are my favorite bee keeping vids. Olds school shit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upbONroWPic ......and this euro crazy bitch style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKTvp1lupHY&feature=relmfu

 

[johnyutah]

Thanks, for the vids... skeps are sick! some how some way the slave wage culture in the USA has consumed much of the old "school". The appeal for americans is material shit they don't need and over consume. It is directly reflected in the health and lifestyles of many people......By european culture holding on to "old school" ways of farming --it is really the way of the future. I am getting a farm now and getting out of the city so I can become self sufficient. plus I truly believe that in the next 20 years there will be such a dramatic shift in energy use in the US, that besides the people in with the big $$$ --energy companies who will save themselves by simply reinvesting in renewable resource> and in turn > continue to rape the nation instead of helping it proper>> Tesla had a plan to put energy in the air, but Edison put in a wire so people could be charged for it. Can you imagine if the entire world had free renewable energy, and clean water!!!! if this is something that you believe cannot happen, you are a greedy capitalist pig, who should be cooked on a stick......Capitalism is plants the idea that if your rich, you obviously didn't work hard enough<< this is obviously not the case when the wage laborers are always the ones working, while the greedy ones play golf< what a game for fuckhead!!! frisbee golf is way better, and disk are cheap>>>>>, but it is time to think of man as a whole, not just see your fellow man as an obstacle...we should all grow together.

-- local farmers are going to be the new way of life. The USA cannot continue to screw it up with monoculture/pesticides/ and slave wage labor in this bottlenecked society! The truth of it is, that if you can make 50k on a small farm(combined income) you will be much further ahead than the dumbass making 6 figures paying the 900 dollar range rover payment, and taking out the 30 year home loan, eating crap and getting fat. If i could just find a way to surf still!!!!! I do love the ocean...and HI is way too much$$$ u think milk is expensive~~ however

sorry for the rant and sorry for clouding up the thread.... I <3 you infidel!!!! I am about to get so high off a ginormous dab!!! right after i smoke this joint!!! happy 420 MF'ers



Legalize it for the kids!

 

[Rising Moon]

Hey everyone,

I did a little experiment last time I brewed some AACT.

I had just received my fungi perfecti mycos powder, and without thought, mushed it in with my worm castings.

To my surprise a couple days later, I found this growing on my "tea bag"

Looks like nothing Ive ever seen, and Ive been brewing teas for years...

Almost mushroom looking...

But, this is the first time I added the mycos...

What do you all think?

I am not sure that I will do this again, as I cannot really see how this would make my teas better...

I will just have to mix the powder in with the soil next round.

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