Atheists

[ginjawarrior]

Hmmm...seriously, I've never heard of that. But, I don't get out much. This is meaningful to me that you have the reaction. I have to admit from the list, I'm having a hard time understanding just when I swerved into "woo" (funny word) Can you point a particular number and reference.

I assure you, I'm not attempting to do more than describe as baldly as possible. But, should I just say xyr2 or some variable placeholder that has no significance or meaning? Isn't that Scientology for example? Looks like woo, quacks like woo, must be woo.
Is that what you mean? For the largest scale items I place my words as plainly as possible but you may be substituting more charged words or building extra charge into my words, perhaps because of this definition. I'm only asking you to consider that.

I do find the reaction quite interesting. I would like to see why it creates a great deal of confusion? Do you subscribe to the idea there is nothing besides the inner dialog in here? Is it my fault all the good words are taken and abused?

im of the idea that my conscious thought is just a small part of what makes me me the mammoth portion goes to my subconscious mind which as cannabineer said was thinking meat, a process of chemical reactions which guides my body and shaped the thoughts of my conscious mind.

out of that list i'd say you were a
3

If we can perceive Now that extends beyond existence even, without causality, then there IT is.

I just want to emphasis the need for utter completeness in this view of Now.

It requires a rather large shift of the definition of "I" and therefore identity itself.
The human body is not I.
The brain is not I.
All identity is not I.
Information about me is not I.
Leaves only the blistering light of Self that's not subject to entropy. Much more like everything than nothing.

and extra marks on this one for getting quantum (strong mark of woo not in list) in this one

And I'm not seeking any other knowledge but Now. So not talking about life after death. I'm talking about merging deep into the quantum entangled stillness of Now to perceive additional Knowledge of Self. Hard to explain. Real to experience.

its not out and out hardline woo but with just a few tweaks it would be indistinguishable from the heavy woo


dont get me wrong i think the power of our subconscious mind is highly underestimated by most people. they don't realise that nearly everything that they do which is a learned ability is carried out by the subconscious (your not good at something if you have to think about what your doing while doing it) and that techniques to shut off the internal chatter of the conscious mind could be beneficial for alot of people its just the
"quantum" and "The human body is not I. The brain is not I." brings up the alarm bells of woo

i liked this look at the subconscious
[youtube]LM_iiPFkNas[/youtube]

 

[ginjawarrior]

I think when our discussions do not pretend to contain answers, but rather interpretations, then the subject doesn't really matter. If it's simply a naked expression of what is in your brain, then it's nothing more than an attempt to describe the world. If actual woo took this stance, well most of it wouldn't exist.

If someone says, 'this is what I think and I don't expect it to mean anything to anyone but me', what more could you ask for?

i wasn't trying to ask for anything really i just saw similarities between the ideas and pointed them out. perhaps the tone came across slightly different from intended

 

[overgrowem]

gullible...............?

Ghosts exist I've seen at least 3. The first was hard to spot,#2 was easier and #3 made himself known to me.One way to experience a ghost is go to a fire where an old wood frame building is burning but not to far gone. If there is a ghost (often is) he will be forced out, will be PISSED and will let U know it...

 

[Doer]

Ginga fair enough i see the swerves now.
A few tweaks and no woo
nothing even similar
no need to upset anyone
Thanks

 

[tyler.durden]

Ghosts exist I've seen at least 3. The first was hard to spot,#2 was easier and #3 made himself known to me.One way to experience a ghost is go to a fire where an old wood frame building is burning but not to far gone. If there is a ghost (often is) he will be forced out, will be PISSED and will let U know it...

...........

 

[ginjawarrior]

Ginga fair enough i see the swerves now.
A few tweaks and no woo
nothing even similar
no need to upset anyone
Thanks

lol while i enjoy being contentious i rarely get upset by it

 

[Doer]

lol while i enjoy being contentious i rarely get upset by it

No, sorry, I didn't mean you. I was typing from my silly iPhone. Now, at a real keyboard I say that upset was the shorthand for confused and made to think of woo. Don't want that, not pushing that. But it does seem interesting that
a real experience exposed to language can come out sounding woo. And then there is the chicken and egg question.

But, may I be allowed some license since the thread is about Atheists and God, Religion and such? You see the conundrum about describing a subjective experience? For some, not you probably, just saying that it is subjective is enough for dismissal.

Aren't Christian and Atheist somewhat alike here? They both insist their's is the Objective experience.

 

[tyler.durden]

No, sorry, I didn't mean you. I was typing from my silly iPhone. Now, at a real keyboard I say that upset was the shorthand for confused and made to think of woo. Don't want that, not pushing that. But it does seem interesting that
a real experience exposed to language can come out sounding woo. And then there is the chicken and egg question.

But, may I be allowed some license since the thread is about Atheists and God, Religion and such? You see the conundrum about describing a subjective experience? For some, not you probably, just saying that it is subjective is enough for dismissal.

Aren't Christian and Atheist somewhat alike here? They both insist their's is the Objective experience.

All experiences are subjective, as all data we receive is processed through our own filters, preferences and biases. and I don't think that most atheists here are insisting that their experience is objective. I think we're touting a better methodology to get to the closest approximation of true objective reality. Skepticism, critical thinking, science, etc.. These methods are superior to religious dogma, and other unsupported forms of woo, in getting to the closest approximation of reality imho. Even with these shared methodologies leading to the same conclusions, each atheist here will experience the reality of that knowledge subjectively.

There's nothing wrong with speaking about any subjective experiences, as long as we don't present it as objective reality without adequate support. I don't think you were doing that. It seems like you were relating your subjective experience without presenting it as anything more...

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Ghosts exist I've seen at least 3. The first was hard to spot,#2 was easier and #3 made himself known to me.One way to experience a ghost is go to a fire where an old wood frame building is burning but not to far gone. If there is a ghost (often is) he will be forced out, will be PISSED and will let U know it...

Burning down buildings is not the way to prove ghosts, but if I see a burning building I'll be sure to keep my eye out for pissed off spirits... I find it funny that all the hardcore atheists never had a supernatural experience, or if they have then they convince themselves there just seeing things because what they seen contradicts their die-hard beliefs... Maybe theres some kinda rule where ghosts arent suppose to expose themselves to narrow minded shit heads because it would prove something that they should of figured out on their own lol who knows though, I guess their needed in this world to a certain extent.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Burning down buildings is not the way to prove ghosts, but if I see a burning building I'll be sure to keep my eye out for pissed off spirits... I find it funny that all the hardcore atheists never had a supernatural experience, or if they have then they convince themselves there just seeing things because what they seen contradicts their die-hard beliefs... Maybe theres some kinda rule where ghosts arent suppose to expose themselves to narrow minded shit heads because it would prove something that they should of figured out on their own lol who knows though, I guess their needed in this world to a certain extent.

All PEOPLE have never had a supernatural experience. Your perception, preconceived notions (all the movies you've seen, stories you've heard), and personal bias lead you to believe what you might have experienced was a ghost. That's it. People who experience what they think are ghosts aren't stupid or crazy, they just aren't aware of or can't accept the explanation. It isn't enough, people want to think they've seen a ghost. Just look at your own post, it's screaming "I've seen a ghost and stupid dumb stupid atheists haven't, they're dumb, that makes me spiritually superior!".

Yet again, we're the closed minded ones...

The idea of ghosts is so logically absurd it's not even worth explaining, and if you took more than a moment to actually consider all the implications that come along with ghosts existing, you would realize that.

What would be the point of a ghost? Why wouldn't it go to Heaven or Hell, assuming the soul exists, which would be the 'ghost'?

I bet your ghost was wearing clothes too, huh? How do you explain that? What, the guys clothes died along with him?


Have you ever seen 1408? I'm John Cusack's character, your ghost stories don't impress me, buddy..

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

All PEOPLE have never had a supernatural experience. Your perception, preconceived notions (all the movies you've seen, stories you've heard), and personal bias lead you to believe what you might have experienced was a ghost. That's it. People who experience what they think are ghosts aren't stupid or crazy, they just aren't aware of or can't accept the explanation. It isn't enough, people want to think they've seen a ghost. Just look at your own post, it's screaming "I've seen a ghost and stupid dumb stupid atheists haven't, they're dumb, that makes me spiritually superior!".

Yet again, we're the closed minded ones...

The idea of ghosts is so logically absurd it's not even worth explaining, and if you took more than a moment to actually consider all the implications that come along with ghosts existing, you would realize that.

What would be the point of a ghost? Why wouldn't it go to Heaven or Hell, assuming the soul exists, which would be the 'ghost'?

I bet your ghost was wearing clothes too, huh? How do you explain that? What, the guys clothes died along with him?


Have you ever seen 1408? I'm John Cusack's character, your ghost stories don't impress me, buddy..

That top paragraph is a perfect example of people trying to rationalize the supernatural lol thank you for posting an example =)

 

[cannofbliss]

All PEOPLE have never had a supernatural experience. Your perception, preconceived notions (all the movies you've seen, stories you've heard), and personal bias lead you to believe what you might have experienced was a ghost. That's it. People who experience what they think are ghosts aren't stupid or crazy, they just aren't aware of or can't accept the explanation. It isn't enough, people want to think they've seen a ghost. Just look at your own post, it's screaming "I've seen a ghost and stupid dumb stupid atheists haven't, they're dumb, that makes me spiritually superior!".

Yet again, we're the closed minded ones...

The idea of ghosts is so logically absurd it's not even worth explaining, and if you took more than a moment to actually consider all the implications that come along with ghosts existing, you would realize that.

What would be the point of a ghost? Why wouldn't it go to Heaven or Hell, assuming the soul exists, which would be the 'ghost'?

I bet your ghost was wearing clothes too, huh? How do you explain that? What, the guys clothes died along with him?


Have you ever seen 1408? I'm John Cusack's character, your ghost stories don't impress me, buddy..

your post was clear, concise, logical, and full of good sense...

unfortunately... something tells me that logic and reason, sadly doesn't work when communicating to the religious or the superstitious...

 

[cannofbliss]

what does (insert your favorite deity here) need with a starship???

had to find two vids to complete the scene here for all you trekkies...

[video=youtube;QkT1-N0VqUc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkT1-N0VqUc[/video]

 

[cannofbliss]

then second part here...

[video=youtube;vweSLmSgO-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vweSLmSgO-k&feature=related[/video]

 

[cannofbliss]

THEN just replace the word "starship" with YOU thats right the religious the superstitious...

what does a supposed "all powerful being" need with you so "you" may "carry its wisdom"...

AND it turns out that the "supposedly all powerful" being depicted here IS ACTUALLY YOU... IN YOUR MIND so you view yourself as "carrying the so called "power of superiority... and then you the religious act "in violence" to anyone who doubts your beliefs"...

you are the ones that "think you are acting in "said deity's" will when in FACT its just your OWN will...

mull that one over why dont ya???

 

[Padawanbater2]

That top paragraph is a perfect example of people trying to rationalize the supernatural lol thank you for posting an example =)

Supernatural - happens OUTSIDE of nature. Nature encompasses all of existence, so please, tell me, what was your supernatural experience?

 

[overgrowem]

Burning down buildings is not the way to prove ghosts, but if I see a burning building I'll be sure to keep my eye out for pissed off spirits... I find it funny that all the hardcore atheists never had a supernatural experience, or if they have then they convince themselves there just seeing things because what they seen contradicts their die-hard beliefs... Maybe theres some kinda rule where ghosts arent suppose to expose themselves to narrow minded shit heads because it would prove something that they should of figured out on their own lol who knows though, I guess their needed in this world to a certain extent.

.....Don't burn a building, U might become the target of a ghosts rage.A rage that could become a life threatening situation to anyone nearby.I saw this first hand.Your idea that ghosts don't expose themselves to jerks may have merit.When a ghost revealed himself (communicated with) to me I was just the person at that place at that time,but I was in the prosses of doing a kind deed .That may be why the ghost came forward?...Looks like some good thinking on your part....

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Supernatural - happens OUTSIDE of nature. Nature encompasses all of existence, so please, tell me, what was your supernatural experience?

Well I had more than a few, the main ones dont have to do with ghosts but it is of that nature I guess. Its not like telling you of such things is going to convince of anything, its just going to further confirm your opinion of me, which is BAT-SHIT-CRAZY lol.

 

[overgrowem]

That top paragraph is a perfect example of people trying to rationalize the supernatural lol thank you for posting an example =)

...This guy is a poster child for your thoughts....

 

[Heisenberg]

[video=youtube;9L2lDHNmRFw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L2lDHNmRFw[/video]