Isn't Homosexuality Abnormal?

[WileyCoyote]

Please address posts 52 and 53

OK, give me a chance to review them, and I will respond.

 

[WileyCoyote]

Natural selection is the mechanism by which we see certain alleles increase or decrease in frequency within a given population. Considering that neither you or anyone else has demonstrated that homosexuality is controlled by genes directly or even only one way as there could be multiple paths to become gay, you have not confirmed anything.

One of the leading hypotheses is that hormonal interference during certain crucial fetal developmental periods may play a role in making a person gay. This could be completely under the control of the mother carrying the fetus and have absolutely nothing to do with the genotype of the child.
Another possibility is that genes that contribute to being gay are linked with other genes like impeccable fashion sense... okay bad joke. But seriously, if there are gay genes closely linked to other genes that give us certain desirable traits, then those genes will be passed down more often as a by-product, an accident of linkage as a recessive trait.

I don't know if there are "gay genes" or not. Probably not is my guess. But SOMETHING makes certain people be born with a desire to have sex with members of their own sex...which serves to prevent (or reduce, in the case if bisexuals) their their procreation...which is counter to the second-strongest desire of most animals (yes, we are animals) - to pass ones genes on.

 

[WileyCoyote]

These are all reasonable statements. Where you got into trouble with most people is when you said these lines



Mother nature endowed many homosexuals with healthy reproductive systems. Furthermore, following your premise, we would have to assume mother nature finds something wrong with old people or anyone who is naturally sterile. Your logic is so loose that we could use it to also assume that, since mother nature gives human cancer, she must not want humans around. Underneath all of this is the fact that empirical evidence casts serious doubt on homosexuality being simply a matter of genetics, therefore natural selection must not be the only mechanic involved and may in fact be incidental.



If I am hearing you right, you are now saying something a little different than what this line would suggest. You are saying that you personally find male homosexuality as disgusting and repellent as the idea of pedophilia. That is kinda like me saying that I find the idea of eating cow tongue to be as disgusting as eating rotted roadkill. I wouldn't be saying those who eat cow tongue are abnormal, or that they would share any traits with someone who would eat roadkill.


In the end, the one criticism you have of gay male sex is the same criticism that could be said about any of the sex any of us have. Any sex act that is performed by any couple is going to be disgusting to someone somewhere. If you masturbate, then you are not only thwarting nature yourself, you are deeply disgusting many people around the globe. It would seem that personal distaste is a poor way to distinguish what sex acts are appropriate and which are not. If you think about it, you will see that pedophilia is distinguished as wrong by far more criteria than simply being repulsive.

Yeah, OK, I probably didn't come across as I intended...I am not saying that homos are bad...While I am saying that pedophiles are bad...however the desires of both seem to be counter to the second-strongest desire of all (or most) animals...to procreate. and yes I realize that many homos and peds procreate.

 

[WileyCoyote]

Yeah, OK, I probably didn't come across as I intended...I am not saying that homos are bad...While I am saying that pedophiles are bad...however the desires of both seem to be counter to the second-strongest desire of all (or most) animals...to procreate. and yes I realize that many homos and peds procreate.

And I'll go as far to say that bisexuality is probably not counter to nature. Bisexuals do have the desire to pass their genes on.

Again, I have no hatred toward gays. I'm just trying to see humankind in the context of nature. Maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think so.

 

[Darwin Riddle]

^^^ I'm telling ya!! They say the ones who worry about it the most...are the ones suppressing certain urges....

 

[WileyCoyote]

Oh well, time to go out to eat. I'll see you all in the funny papers in the morning.

 

[UncleBuck]

My dear Uncle Buck! So good to hear from you again.

No, I don't relish the idea of another man's member, especially if as big as mine, straightening out my colon. My proctologist does a very nice job of that every 5 years with his hose pipe.

as big as yours?

it doesn't get any more homo than telling other guys about your penis unprompted and constantly alluding to gay sex.

 

[UncleBuck]

Oh well, time to go out to eat. I'll see you all in the funny papers in the morning.

go figure.

when the subject comes around to wiley's clear latent homosexual urges, he gets uncomfortable and all of a sudden has to leave.

i bet he'll be back to talk about homosexuality and tell us about his penis and describe things he'd like to try tomorrow.

 

[Heisenberg]

Are you guys really OK with literally turning this thread into a bigger dick contest?

 

[Darwin Riddle]

don't forget pedophiles......

 

[mindphuk]

I don't know if there are "gay genes" or not. Probably not is my guess. But SOMETHING makes certain people be born with a desire to have sex with members of their own sex...which serves to prevent (or reduce, in the case if bisexuals) their their procreation...which is counter to the second-strongest desire of most animals (yes, we are animals) - to pass ones genes on.

Again, this is incorrect and you are not acknowledging the fact that animals do not feel a need to procreate, they feel a desire toward sex. Sex usually leads to procreation in nature which is why sexual reproduction is successful. You cannot however equate sexual desire with the desire to procreate. If you look at young males, the most virile of our species, they tend to desire to have sex with as many woman as possible while not getting attached to any. Woman, OTOH, have a desire for long-term relationships. From an evolutionary standpoint this makes since since that is what is necessary for raising a child but it is not procreation or raising children that give woman their emotional desire for close relationships. You seem to be confusing the goal of genes, which is to survive long enough to make as many copies of itself to continue on and the results that various genes have on the vehicle in which they find themselves, plant or animal. Do you really think that when plants and animals mate they understand that it is this action that will produce offspring? Like you say, humans are merely animals. Just because we can intellectually and consciously connect the sexual act with procreation does not mean that procreation is what we desire.

 

[TogTokes]

crazy topic

 

[Padawanbater2]

Again, this is incorrect and you are not acknowledging the fact that animals do not feel a need to procreate, they feel a desire toward sex. Sex usually leads to procreation in nature which is why sexual reproduction is successful. You cannot however equate sexual desire with the desire to procreate. If you look at young males, the most virile of our species, they tend to desire to have sex with as many woman as possible while not getting attached to any. Woman, OTOH, have a desire for long-term relationships. From an evolutionary standpoint this makes since since that is what is necessary for raising a child but it is not procreation or raising children that give woman their emotional desire for close relationships. You seem to be confusing the goal of genes, which is to survive long enough to make as many copies of itself to continue on and the results that various genes have on the vehicle in which they find themselves, plant or animal. Do you really think that when plants and animals mate they understand that it is this action that will produce offspring? Like you say, humans are merely animals. Just because we can intellectually and consciously connect the sexual act with procreation does not mean that procreation is what we desire.

Where does the desire to procreate come from? Sex, the physical part of it is instinctual, right? Is there an innate sense of wanting to raise a family or have children, according to science?

 

[mindphuk]

Where does the desire to procreate come from? Sex, the physical part of it is instinctual, right? Is there an innate sense of wanting to raise a family or have children, according to science?

There seems to be a stronger desire to have children that many woman have if they haven't had a child as they approach an age where it becomes more difficult and dangerous. However, some of this can be attributed to psychological effects although there might be some instinctual component under the control of genes. Once you have children, there is are parenting instincts that kick in but most of those tend toward protection of offspring and not necessarily an actual desire to have more children. I will try to look up if there have been any studies on this.

 

[Heisenberg]

removed

If homosexuality is a disease then why is it not considered so by any field of medicine or health care? Why do we not have drugs that can correct the illness? What is the proposed mechanism of this disorder? I am assuming you have easy answers for these, cosnidering how simple you say it is.

It seems more likely that rather than put any thought into the subject, you are simply regurgitating your knee-jerk prejudice.

 

[bombasticson]

Why do you even care what two adults do in the privacy of their own home. I'll never get the "anti-gay" culture that is so prevalent here. Unless they're fucking each other in the ass on your couch, then why the fuck do you even care?

What you fail to realize is the when a kid grows up seeing two men or women kissing he will take it as normal and will most likely be gay also... Do gay people make straight babies?

 

[Heisenberg]

What you fail to realize is the when a kid grows up seeing two men or women kissing he will take it as normal and will most likely be gay also... Do gay people make straight babies?

Wow, so what you are really telling us us that your own sexuality is so fragile that if you see enough men kiss you will want to do it yourself. The only thing that keeps you from doing it is the stigma that it is abnormal. You want to keep this stigma alive because you assume a teenage boy's sexuality is as influential as yours, and calling it abnormal is the only way to get him (or you) to resist.

This would be the implications of your logic.

 

[bombasticson]

Wow, so what you are really telling us us that your own sexuality is so fragile that if you see enough men kiss you will want to do it yourself. The only thing that keeps you from doing it is the stigma that it is abnormal. You want to keep this stigma alive because you assume a teenage boy's sexuality is as influential as yours, and calling it abnormal is the only way to get him (or you) to resist.

This would be the implications of your logic.

Actually what I said was kids man kids, when kids grow up with two dads or two moms what do you think happens... Most times those kids will turn out to be gay or have some serious issues. Thats why more and more gay people come about because kids who have developed their sexual urges yet see gay men on tv or in the street and they get messed up from it man. Do you really think its normal to want to have sex with a guy if you are a guy... That sh1t is taboo man and even though its legal it will always be

 

[Heisenberg]

Actually what I said was kids man kids, when kids grow up with two dads or two moms what do you think happens... Most times those kids will turn out to be gay or have some serious issues. Thats why more and more gay people come about because kids who have developed their sexual urges yet see gay men on tv or in the street and they get messed up from it man. Do you really think its normal to want to have sex with a guy if you are a guy... That sh1t is taboo man and even though its legal it will always be

What I am challenging is your assertion that sexuality can be influenced by observing affection in others. Are you saying that if you grew up seeing men kiss all the time, you would be kissing men today? What you are speaking of isn't desire, it is inhibition. If someone doesn't like penis, then they don't like penis. It's not a matter of simply being too ashamed to try it, which is what you seem to be suggesting. Growing up seeing that same-sex coupling is normal simply removes inhibition, creates a mind open to different ideas, but does not foster any sort of sexuality that isn't present already.

I am also wondering how you explain the numbers of homosexuals that were raised in strictly heterosexual households. How many gay girls grew up watching women kiss men yet found they didn't like it themselves? Your logic seems pretty shoddy, and as far as I am aware, it's not backed up by any statistical or psychological evidence. As I said, it seem more likely that this is simply evidence of the back-flips your brain has to do in order to justify prejudice.

 

[Heisenberg]

Ok man the whole gay thing makes no sense to me vaginas feel much better then ass and breast feel much better then chest anyone who says otherwise has mental problems man. And alot of homos come about because they were molested or something

So anything that doesn't make sense to you is a mental illness? It's simply a matter of taste. Do you get hung up when someone doesn't like the same ice cream as you? The only thing you have really expressed is that you are not very imaginative and don't place much importance on compassion and understanding.

And statistically, the great majority of boys who were molested by older men grow up to be straight. In fact, we find about the same number of homosexuals in this group (the victims) as we do in any other random group of people. Being molested often creates many mental problems and sexual issues, but there is no evidence that it fundamentally changes sexual orientation. There just isn't any persuasive evidence that what you think is true.