Dear America: You should be mad as hell about this!

[abandonconflict]

I've heard the same argument stated almost exactly the opposite you wrote abandon. Why would the poor be in such lockstep with the democratic party. If you looked at the most screwed up, poorly educated, highest drop out rate, highest teen pregnancy rates, dirtiest, poorest cities they all have one thing in common. Democratic leadership for the last 3 or 4 decades. The once great cities like Philly, Detroit, DC, Baltimore, Cleveland have become blights.

I think the difference is, yours is a stated opinion backed by no facts while the other is awesomely obvious to anyone looking.

The GOP has had a near strangle hold on the nation in that time, who fucking cares what the municipalities elected in "once great cities"? Did Philly's Mayor declare war in Vietnam? Did Baltimore's Mayor start the fucking drug war? Did Detroit's Mayor give the richest 2% a fucking tax break?

 

[Dr Kynes]

We go back to the initial premise. Workers create wealth, no one else does, no one else can.

that is the craziest thing i ever read. workers WORK they dont "create wealth" labour extracts raw materials, works those materials into products and "middle class" jackoffs sell them. the "middle class" are now, and always have been merchants burghers, marketing assholes and service oriented entrepreneurs. Labour does not fall into any of these categories. Labour is Labour because thats all Labour has to sell, LABOUR! caling us the"workers" and arrtifically lumping labour with the middle class jackoffs who simply re-sell what labour produces is a falsehood. Labour doesnt create wealth labour creates the food, raw materials and products that the "middle class" sells to other assholes in the "middle class". the merchants and bankers "create wealth" through the illusion of transactional profit, currency manipulation, taxation and debt..

when salesdouches dont work,, nobody gives a fuck, when LABOUR doesnt work shit falls apart. you think anybody in the world would give two squirts of piss if madison avenue advertisers went on strike? fuck no, but right now, the idiotic ideas of dimwits in washington, leftist dreamers, greedy corporate dickwads, and yes, even the sainted "middle class" are conspiring to put the working class out of work. so everybody who shouts and whimpers abut the "plight of the middle class" should stop to consider its YOU who created our new consumer driven economy, and sold the country to the bankers and the chinese so you could buy tube-socks for $5 a dozen.

wealth is property, real property, not fiat currency, worthless bonds, interest on outstanding loans, or illusory stock market pricing. everything else is not wealth, it's monopoly money and a little plastic hotel on oriental avenue.

 

[Dr Kynes]

No, a market is the barter and channel of scarce resources. It does not of itself itself demand. Say's law is - Supply creates demand.

ha ha ha ha ha!! supply of shit doesnt create demand for shit. if that "law" were anything other than hot air i could sell chicken shit for $5 a pound.

demand drives entrepreneurs and producers to increase supply. if every farmer in the country grew only carrots this year, carrots would be cheap as fuck, not in demand, and brussel sprouts would cost more than a new gold watch.


you need to stop listening to economists. any idiot on a farm could tell you demand drives the producer, not the other way around. thats why a acre of tomatoes pays out better than an acre of cabbage. if cabbage sold as good as tomatoes, you bet your ass would be growing cabbages.

 

[cannabineer]

ha ha ha ha ha!! supply of shit doesnt create demand for shit. if that "law" were anything other than hot air i could sell chicken shit for $5 a pound.

demand drives entrepreneurs and producers to increase supply. if every farmer in the country grew only carrots this year, carrots would be cheap as fuck, not in demand, and brussel sprouts would cost more than a new gold watch.


you need to stop listening to economists. any idiot on a farm could tell you demand drives the producer, not the other way around. thats why a acre of tomatoes pays out better than an acre of cabbage. if cabbage sold as good as tomatoes, you bet your ass would be growing cabbages.

Open an organic/hydroponic gardening boutique. Branding is everything, and I'm sure those 16-oz bags of FreeBird will fly off the shelves. cn

 

[ginwilly]

sorry guys I forget sometimes when talking to the central planners how you guys think.

Without even pointing fault we would be spinning our wheels because I think fixing the big picture starts locally. Those once great cities used to be our shining examples of wealth and prosperity the average Joe could attain with a dream a plan and some know how mixed with elbow grease and some luck. If you can't see that these cities are a cancer that is eating away at the health of our country. Pointing fingers doesn't solve anything (blaming GOP for Detroit and DC is pretty f'in stupid but I digress).

I say the problems are best fixed at the local level. Unfortunately the people of those great cities will elect the same celebrity criminals over and over again. But hey, let's blame the boogeyman.

No these cities didn't do what you claim the GOP did, in fact they did the opposite. They went the dem way and raised taxes while expanding government and have basically cannibalized themselves. If we are blinded by our partisan hate or fall for the leaders excuse making and finger pointing (it sucks because of them, honest, we are great, it's all their fault) we will keep electing the same friggin idiots over and over.

Sorry about your blind hate for GOP or love for Dem or whatever is you have going on there. The GOP sucks, the Democratic party sucks, they are all pretty clueless and so damn corrupt, but keep pointing fingers.

Seriously, what is the reason you think those cities are bankrupt?

edit: was directed at abandonconflict but I think it fits pretty much all of us at times.

 

[Illegal Smile]

ha ha ha ha ha!! supply of shit doesnt create demand for shit. if that "law" were anything other than hot air i could sell chicken shit for $5 a pound.

demand drives entrepreneurs and producers to increase supply. if every farmer in the country grew only carrots this year, carrots would be cheap as fuck, not in demand, and brussel sprouts would cost more than a new gold watch.


you need to stop listening to economists. any idiot on a farm could tell you demand drives the producer, not the other way around. thats why a acre of tomatoes pays out better than an acre of cabbage. if cabbage sold as good as tomatoes, you bet your ass would be growing cabbages.

Says Law is real but its application is often grossly overstated. It works in some distorted markets, medicine being the best example. The consumer does not decide how often they see the Dr or what drugs they take or what tests they get. Healthcare is an example of supply creating its own demand (and maybe that is part of the problem with healthcare). But in general, I agree that demand drives production because production minus sales equals waste.

 

[desert dude]

The New Deal worked fine. People who were smart and contributed more to society became rich, everyone was doing ok.

You do realize that it was FDR's Supreme Court packing threat that led the Supreme Court to expand the commerce clause in Wickard V Filburn to allow the federal government to control and regulate almost everything. Wickard led directly to the drug war.

FDR was probably the worst president ever, at least in terms of undermining the foundation of the country.

 

[ginwilly]

ha ha ha ha ha!! supply of shit doesnt create demand for shit. if that "law" were anything other than hot air i could sell chicken shit for $5 a pound.

demand drives entrepreneurs and producers to increase supply. if every farmer in the country grew only carrots this year, carrots would be cheap as fuck, not in demand, and brussel sprouts would cost more than a new gold watch.


you need to stop listening to economists. any idiot on a farm could tell you demand drives the producer, not the other way around. thats why a acre of tomatoes pays out better than an acre of cabbage. if cabbage sold as good as tomatoes, you bet your ass would be growing cabbages.

my guess is he's listening to economic professors, not economists. You would think the very basic laws of supply and demand would be better understood on a commodities forum. The latest Nobel economist won because he proved Keynesian to be fairy tale stuff (as much proof as there can be in a soft science) so there is some hope.

 

[Dr Kynes]

The jobs are not in this country, they are over seas...because greedy people would rather max profit and use slave labor in other countries than to manufacture something here, you should know that simple economics could tell you , the money we are wasting in the Mid East could have paid China what we owe them...Then we should have implemented a massive tariff on any of the cheap shit being imported from there...Then we grow more industrial hemp and stop clearing so many forests and exporting our lumber to China. That creates jobs and keeps more of our natural resources. If we cut the defense budget in half that alone is enough money to provide universal healthcare to every citizen and leaving enough money to clean every natural water way up to provide cleaner water. This country has a massive amount of natural gas that can be extracted cleanly and sold and used...Every vehicle in this country should be running on nat gas and we could freeze the people who hate us the most completely, while not having foreign companies like BP or Big Polluters destroying out gulf and sea life..This is all common sense that is being held back because the greediest people in the country seem to have the most money and influence, they are putting money and greed ahead of their own countries well being.

so close to absolutely correct bro! just one minor thing, natural gas is a shitty way to power a car. methyl alcohol (wood alcohol) is the best way to power a car, it gives more power, and higher MPG, at cooler temps, with only CO2 and H2O as exhaust. spills evaporate and degrade in minutes and you can put out a methyl fire with plain water. Ethyl alcohol as a motor fuel was a retarded boondoggle, but Methyl does, has always and will forever work as expected.

thats why Nascar uses it, and so does indy racing, sprint car racing, motorcycle racing, and every drag racing division except nitro.

 

[abandonconflict]

sorry guys I forget sometimes when talking to the central planners how you guys think.

Without even pointing fault we would be spinning our wheels because I think fixing the big picture starts locally. Those once great cities used to be our shining examples of wealth and prosperity the average Joe could attain with a dream a plan and some know how mixed with elbow grease and some luck. If you can't see that these cities are a cancer that is eating away at the health of our country. Pointing fingers doesn't solve anything (blaming GOP for Detroit and DC is pretty f'in stupid but I digress).

I say the problems are best fixed at the local level. Unfortunately the people of those great cities will elect the same celebrity criminals over and over again. But hey, let's blame the boogeyman.

No these cities didn't do what you claim the GOP did, in fact they did the opposite. They went the dem way and raised taxes while expanding government and have basically cannibalized themselves. If we are blinded by our partisan hate or fall for the leaders excuse making and finger pointing (it sucks because of them, honest, we are great, it's all their fault) we will keep electing the same friggin idiots over and over.

Sorry about your blind hate for GOP or love for Dem or whatever is you have going on there. The GOP sucks, the Democratic party sucks, they are all pretty clueless and so damn corrupt, but keep pointing fingers.

Seriously, what is the reason you think those cities are bankrupt?

edit: was directed at abandonconflict but I think it fits pretty much all of us at times.

Cities are parts of a whole, each with something different to offer the whole and made of distinct groups. Some have resources, some are located along routes and some inhabit strategic locations such as ports. Many of the most populated and developed metropolitan areas were nothing more than camps two centuries ago. Many cities become gentrified as demand for real estate rises and many stagnate within a year if the military moves away. Why did the Mayans leave their cities?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Open an organic/hydroponic gardening boutique. Branding is everything, and I'm sure those 16-oz bags of FreeBird will fly off the shelves. cn

Shit you crack me up! i tell ya i would ove to do that, but setting up a business in california requires so much capital that you just cant do it without goin into serious debt. most of the hydro/gardening centers round here are focused on the hype ad bullshit of "Organic" nonsense, instead of natural farming. Fuck, you ca buy certified organic rotenone powder for your crops, and still have that big "O" on your certification (rotenone is a plant based biotoxin used to control pests in the 70's and 80' that nobody used for years due to its habit of being lethally poisonous to farm workers) heres the lowdown on this "organic" pest control product : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotenone


lulz, mildly toxic... catch a face full of the stuff when a cropduster forgets to shut off his sprayer, and youll fall off your tractor.
a couple farm workers have died from exposure to the stuff. meanwhile, DDT is banned (for the environment thanks to the work of fiction Silent Spring) despite being far safer than rotenone for every critter except insects.

 

[ginwilly]

Cities are parts of a whole, each with something different to offer the whole and made of distinct groups. Some have resources, some are located along routes and some inhabit strategic locations such as ports. Many of the most populated and developed metropolitan areas were nothing more than camps two centuries ago. Many cities become gentrified as demand for real estate rises and many stagnate within a year if the military moves away. Why did the Mayans leave their cities?

yes cities are part of the whole but I wouldn't treat your rotator cuff if you sprained an ankle even though they are both part of the whole. I also wouldn't blame your tennis elbow on sitting on the couch. If we can't be honest about why some of our major metropolises are flourishing and why other are floundering we'll never reach our potential. The people of Detroit have many excuses and point lots of fingers everywhere but the people of Detroit. Try to picture what Detroit would be like without those 1%ers the Fords and Illitches yet those type of people get blamed for the problems. There is no way the bus drivers, cops and firemen would be collecting 100k pensions without those families contributions.

The most partisan seem to have a deep lack of understanding of human nature. They will attach very negative personality traits we are all capable of having to "them". I really shouldn't get involved but I get sucked in by it. It's fun lol.

 

[cannabineer]

I remember rotenone. My dad had a duster of it for his garden some 40 years ago. The stuff is like quiet dynamite ... ideal for getting every fish in the river, if you don't mind the trace contaminant. cn

 

[Dr Kynes]

Says Law is real but its application is often grossly overstated. It works in some distorted markets, medicine being the best example. The consumer does not decide how often they see the Dr or what drugs they take or what tests they get. Healthcare is an example of supply creating its own demand (and maybe that is part of the problem with healthcare). But in general, I agree that demand drives production because production minus sales equals waste.

i never met a farmer who planned his planting based on anything other than the price he could get for the crop from actual buyers. If somebody offers me a contract to buy cow turds at $5 a bushel ill grab a shovel and start flippin. until somebody signs the contract though, cow turds are still only worth $20 - $50 a ton as fertilizer depending on location. thats real economics. theres lotsa doctors and dentists who sit on their humps because the people around aint sick. supply doesnt mean shit if nobody is buying.

 

[abandonconflict]

You do realize that it was FDR's Supreme Court packing threat that led the Supreme Court to expand the commerce clause in Wickard V Filburn to allow the federal government to control and regulate almost everything. Wickard led directly to the drug war.

FDR was probably the worst president ever, at least in terms of undermining the foundation of the country.

I'm ok with amendments that make sense (such as the Bill of Rights), I'm even ok with getting rid of the amendments that no longer make sense if it should become necessary. Progress will always be the highest one can aspire to. Besides, I am glad he threatened to pack the Supreme Court. His opponents were a bunch of conspiring dick heads and if there is one thing that fucks up a fun party it is a bunch of conspiring dick heads. Fucking colonial neocon dick heads.

 

[abandonconflict]

yes cities are part of the whole but I wouldn't treat your rotator cuff if you sprained an ankle even though they are both part of the whole. I also wouldn't blame your tennis elbow on sitting on the couch. If we can't be honest about why some of our major metropolises are flourishing and why other are floundering we'll never reach our potential. The people of Detroit have many excuses and point lots of fingers everywhere but the people of Detroit. Try to picture what Detroit would be like without those 1%ers the Fords and Illitches yet those type of people get blamed for the problems. There is no way the bus drivers, cops and firemen would be collecting 100k pensions without those families contributions.

The most partisan seem to have a deep lack of understanding of human nature. They will attach very negative personality traits we are all capable of having to "them". I really shouldn't get involved but I get sucked in by it. It's fun lol.

OK, anatomy analogy, then DC is the brain. Bad decisions lead to poor health in more than half of all health issues. It is a global economy.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I'm ok with amendments that make sense (such as the Bill of Rights), I'm even ok with getting rid of the amendments that no longer make sense if it should become necessary. Progress will always be the highest one can aspire to. Besides, I am glad he threatened to pack the Supreme Court. His opponents were a bunch of conspiring dick heads and if there is one thing that fucks up a fun party it is a bunch of conspiring dick heads. Fucking colonial neocon dick heads.

so the schecter bros were colonial dickheads? FDR tried to pack the court so he could get his way, not because the tea party wears tricorn hats. dude, get a fucking calendar, the neocon movement started in the late 80's, FDR was president in the 40's! fuck whats wrong with you kids?

 

[Dr Kynes]

OK, anatomy analogy, then DC is the brain. Bad decisions lead to poor health in more than half of all health issues. It is a global economy.

DC is the fundament of the anus of our country, not the brain.

Bad decisions are the cause of snowboarding crashes, base jumping injuries and drunk driving deaths, not cancer, viruses, bacterial infections, industrial accidents, or sunburn . what this has to do with the global consumer economy and wealth agreggation by a few megacorps is beyond logic.

 

[abandonconflict]

DC is the fundament of the anus of our country, not the brain.

Bad decisions are the cause of snowboarding crashes, base jumping injuries and drunk driving deaths, not cancer, viruses, bacterial infections, industrial accidents, or sunburn . what this has to do with the global consumer economy and wealth agreggation by a few megacorps is beyond logic.

North Carolina is absolutely the ass, and Fayetteville is the anus.

The conclusion that talk of cities makes no sense, is the conclusion I was trying to lead Ginwilly to. The mixing of names, neocon, colonialist and dickhead, is my colorful way of describing a certain ignorant mindset that people who oppose progress share. Maybe New York is the brain, maybe DC is.

Maybe logic consists more in rhapsody than rhetoric, the abstract concepts better conveyed in non conventional terms. If you don't want to understand it you won't.

 

[desert dude]

I'm ok with amendments that make sense (such as the Bill of Rights), I'm even ok with getting rid of the amendments that no longer make sense if it should become necessary. Progress will always be the highest one can aspire to. Besides, I am glad he threatened to pack the Supreme Court. His opponents were a bunch of conspiring dick heads and if there is one thing that fucks up a fun party it is a bunch of conspiring dick heads. Fucking colonial neocon dick heads.

I'm OK with amendments too. There was no amendment to expand the commerce clause, it was simply legislated by the Supreme Court. Thanks for the drug war, FDR.