NeerGreen: New Era grow #1

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Thank you, dirtsurfr!
...I decided to try something for the last coupla weeks. I just swapped the HPS out and reinstalled the MH. Since the "stretch" is over and the leaves are visibly senescing, I want to put the theory to the test ... been reading that blue and UVA in late flower packs the trichomes on. Let's see. cn
 

shnkrmn

Well-Known Member
I've been running an hps and an mh side by side for some time. I can't see any difference in growth or frostiness from one side of my table to the other.

Nothing packs on the trichomes like late flowering. . . .
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Cn on Halle can you just add a drop or two of soap to reduce the soil tension?

I had occasion to test that today. I was all worried about whether or not I should use dish soap. I checked Halle two hours ago, and the poor dear was droopy, and her fan leaves had a limp feel to them. Yesterday evening, the "lift test" showed a fair bit of weight still. So I took 4 liters of tap water with 1 drop of "Ajax" dish soap (not antibacterial!) and watered her. Some did run through, and I sat there like a complete dork, using a 5ml pipette to lift the runoff back into the pot from the tray I use for watering. (... 596, 597, add some more water, DANG, one, two ...)
She felt a bit heavy when she was bone-dry and i was carrying her to the watering station. So I learned that part of the pot weight was, uhm, pot. "It wasn't there before." :dunce:

Alice was still firm, but her soil was also parched. I mixed some nute for her with RO water, since she looks like she'll be harvested after Halle. There was a fair bit of run-through there as well, and I sat there with a pipette and a goofy look. I'm sure the goofy look did some of the work.

I just checked Halle, and her leaves are beginning to fill and raise themselves. Cannabis might be a desert plant, but these hothouse hybrids resemble wild-type weed the way a Yorkie resembles its lupine ancestor.
I DID notice some amber trichomes on both ladies the other day. I found elsewhere on this site that the trichomes on the sugar leaves can mature more quickly than the ones on the calyces. So, for now, I've stayed the Pruning-shears of Ultimate Truth. cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
What happened :/ looked damn good!
The data oopsie of March 16th happened. It knocked the threads back to about Feb 12 iirc. I had some lovely photoessays, and I just never went through the trouble of retrieving them from Google caches. Neither plant stretched very much. Halle built these awesome fat mango-sized dense colas that smelled divine but smoked ~meh~. Alice (der Hindenbud) grew twelve main stems with stringier, more sativa-esque colas that had a rather unpleasant smell, sometimes plasticky, like freshly-cut schedule 40 ABS pipe, sometimes like those lemon-lime urinal cakes when they're almost new. A few weeks' cure hasn't improved the odor/flavor profile much, but both batches of bud are decently (for Halle) and quite decently (for Alice) stony. In fact, I broke an 18-day T-break two days ago, and i tripped absolute spiky balls on bubble made from Alice's sugar trim.

I promise to assemble a few pics from the lost period and provide a full post-mortem, but later. cn
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
The data oopsie of March 16th happened. It knocked the threads back to about Feb 12 iirc. I had some lovely photoessays, and I just never went through the trouble of retrieving them from Google caches. Neither plant stretched very much. Halle built these awesome fat mango-sized dense colas that smelled divine but smoked ~meh~. Alice (der Hindenbud) grew twelve main stems with stringier, more sativa-esque colas that had a rather unpleasant smell, sometimes plasticky, like freshly-cut schedule 40 ABS pipe, sometimes like those lemon-lime urinal cakes when they're almost new. A few weeks' cure hasn't improved the odor/flavor profile much, but both batches of bud are decently (for Halle) and quite decently (for Alice) stony. In fact, I broke an 18-day T-break two days ago, and i tripped absolute spiky balls on bubble made from Alice's sugar trim.

I promise to assemble a few pics from the lost period and provide a full post-mortem, but later. cn
You know you did have some incredible photo essays, trimming was especially nice.

I must admit I to am disappointed in the Nirvana genetics. I'm actually cleaning out the flower room and mulching about a dozen plants. It is taking a great deal of fortitude to actually toss them under the mower :( but what I grew didn't work for my pain so for me there's no reason to produce more bud that doesn't help.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
So two weeks ago, I was given a marvelously cool thing: seven cuttings of Cali Connection "Pre-98 Bubba Kush" feminized.
This inspired me to make a cloner. Eleven years ago I had good success using a cheapo cloner I made from a small Rubbermaid container and a couple of airstones. I recreated it more or less, but discovered that my air combo (a pump rated at ~300 gph driving a 4" round airstone, the sort that looks like an air hockey puck) didn't make enough mist. The next morning, my cuttings were drooping badly and one was wilted practically flat. So i quickly put the cuttings into a small tub, a vase essentially, of tap water fortified with a splash of K-L-N and some peroxide. Remarkably, even the wilted-flat cutting recovered most of the way. I'd already dumped it in the trash, but the person who'd given them to me gave me very sage advice: Try to revive it; you'd be amazed. I was amazed, and that cutting is still in play!

I also decided that I was going to build an aerocloner modeled after the popular units, both commercial and DIY, that use water pumps and Raindrip spray heads. I already had the water pump from my abortive rDWC attempt, and 1/2" PVC pipe and bits are cheap. So I cut three 4 5/8" lengths for the manifold's legs, since I dedn't want to rely on the pump as a load-bearing member. Here is the finished manifold ...

camdump 12jun03 002.jpg
... and with the pump on. I'd planned on using Red Hot Blue Glue for plumbing, but the fit of the pats is nice and tight, and the unit ran leak-free after a dry assembly. So I didn't bother gluing. I'm actually relieved, because I cannot imagine that Red Hot Blue Glue is exactly a plant tonic. The stuff reeks of tetrahydrofuran, an aggressive and somewhat toxic solvent. No glue; yay!
camdump 12jun03 003.jpg
The babies went into 1 1/2" neoprene collars that I'd snipped a small wedge-shaped hole into, because to my fingers the unmodded cruciform cut in the collars was a bit tight. They'd survived in their vase, but had not formed roots.
So May 31st I got the Béâärocloner 1.1 up and running. The cuttings liked it and maintained their turgor after the first night, and the next ...

Today I checked them. They are starting to yellow somewhat, and only one of the seven shows root bumplies. in fact, a couple had some bacterial slime on their cut ends.

So I drained the cloner (the manifold by simply popping off an end cap and slowly twirling the manifold until no more water came out) and sponged everything down with a solution of dish soap and a splash of 29% peroxide. I refilled the tub with ~3 gal tap water (mine is typically about 100 ppm, so I didn't bother setting up the RO unit) and added 20 ml of the peroxide.
I also delicately de-scummed the cuttings that had picked up a bit of slime, and I gently rubbed some rooting powder (0.1% indolebutyric acid) on the six stems that didn't yet show root bumplies.
Here they are, assembled. The (unfortunately blurry) close-up shows the one with the incipient roots. It's the one by the pump's power cord.
camdump 12jun03 004.jpgcamdump 12jun03 005.jpg
The unit fully assembled, luxuriating under two CFLs in the dedicated clone/reveg closet.
I sure hope these youngsters all develop roots! I'm heartened that one of them has started.
camdump 12jun03 001.jpg

I am also trying to plan this grow. I didn't really intend to have a grow on during The Hot, since I try to save money on the AC by running it as infrequently as possible. This house isn't insulated, :cuss:
So now my big question is: another soil grow, or soillless? I was very pleased with the Fox Farm "Happy Frog" soil initially, but it ran out of nutrient halfway through the grow, and I had to nute it like a hydro grow. That worked, but I'm wondering if I should go soilless. The clone source was running Sunshine Mix #4, and I was impressed with how easy it was to handle. Feeding was essentially just pouring nutrient into each pot and letting the waste drain into a catch bucket under an e&f tray.
So I'm wondering ... which is the better tactic for a grow under hot conditions? Soil, or soilless?

cn
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
......snip........
So I'm wondering ... which is the better tactic for a grow under hot conditions? Soil, or soilless?

cn
I don't think it makes any difference, soil or soilless, each will buffer the roots from heat so whatever you have on hand or whatever is easier to get. You can water the same way. Congratulations on those clones. I hope you get one to root. All you need is one and you can clone more.

I'll be interested to see how the heat goes. I can not believe that marijuana will die from the heat. Stress yes, lower yield yes but I think it will survive. I'm betting my entire grow on that this summer. So far my room has been idling around 93 to 95 and the plants look good and are still growing. They want more water and I'm thinking about adding environmental misters but we'll see.

Also how are those mini spray heads working for you? They just dribbled for me. I had to move to these:
http://www.mrdrip.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=07-082-100 their shipping was a little high at $11. But I got them in 2 days and at 100 pieces I'm paying about .25 each which is 1/3 what the hydro store was selling them for.
 

mellokitty

Moderatrix of Journals
So now my big question is: another soil grow, or soillless? I was very pleased with the Fox Farm "Happy Frog" soil initially, but it ran out of nutrient halfway through the grow, and I had to nute it like a hydro grow. That worked, but I'm wondering if I should go soilless. The clone source was running Sunshine Mix #4, and I was impressed with how easy it was to handle. Feeding was essentially just pouring nutrient into each pot and letting the waste drain into a catch bucket under an e&f tray.
So I'm wondering ... which is the better tactic for a grow under hot conditions? Soil, or soilless?

cn
what i'm getting from your bolded sentence is that you might be happier in soilless -- more control/less guesswork.
especially if you're still doing those custom blend nutes of yours (still jelly!)

the biggest i've encountered from running a "too-hot" room is pests (although to be honest i can't really say i've ever run a full show in the 90+ range)..... for instance, spider mite risk goes up exponentially after 80degs or so.....
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
......snip.......
the biggest i've encountered from running a "too-hot" room is pests (although to be honest i can't really say i've ever run a full show in the 90+ range)..... for instance, spider mite risk goes up exponentially after 80degs or so.....
Ugh I hadn't even thought about pests. LOL something else to worry about ha!
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Bubble hash: a tiny treatise, page 1

The starting point: 94 grams of bone-dry Indica bud.

camdump 12jun11 001.jpg
I placed this into my extra-speshul bubble bucket with some water and ice.
camdump 12jun11 002.jpg
I then beat the bejeezus out of it with a paint paddle chucked into my cordless Panasonic.
I would agitate for 3-5 minutes, then run the extract through four stacked bubble bags:
220µm (work bag, blue), 190µm (green), 73µm (goldenrod) and 25µm (pale blue).
I agitated seven or eight times before the yield in my 73 (main) bag petered down to almost nothing.
I found that I could beat the absolute poop out of the chilled soup in my churn and not have the veg. matter break down.
Some ended up in the tiny amount of 220 "take" but could easily be post-processed through a fine stainless-mesh tea strainer.
camdump 12jun11 003.jpg
So here is the cleaned, combined take from all three bags, labeled for your convenience.
I worked over the course of a day, storing the churn in my fridge in between drill sessions.
A valuable bit of equipment for transfer and washing the screens of the bags: a spray bottle, 1 quart, filled with iced water.
camdump 12jun11 004.jpgcamdump 12jun11 005.jpgcamdump 12jun11 006.jpgcamdump 12jun11 007.jpg
I took the green, wrung-out "curd" from the work bag and set it into the sun to dry. Today was hot, dry and cloudless, and the residue went bone-dry within three hours.
Note the weight loss upon drying! Some is of course in my glasses, but much must have ended up as solubles in the wash/work water. That stank by the way ... of a mix of weed, boiled greens and some sort of overripe fruit.
The drying curd smelled *just* like the poured-off waste from steamed broccoli. Ew.
camdump 12jun11b 001.jpg
I will post a follow-up showing the drained and dried bubble hash. I got a small amount of 190 retentate (filtrant), a nice whack of 73 and a reasonable amount of 25 (after a few cycles of suspension and settling to remove turbidity). The 25 is pale beige, while the coarser fractions are toasty-brown.
cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Bubble hash, a tiny treatise, part 2

The 25 was first onto the drying screen.
It was too viscous to drain quickly, so i contented myself with making it into pastilles.

camdump 12jun11c 001.jpg
The 190 was too coarse - it clogged my pipet.
The 73, now ... it makes the most wonderful drip shapes. Do you like my little bubblegarden?
camdump 12jun11c 002.jpg
The shapes are ephemeral; they collapse quickly under their own weight. But they do seem to indicate <cough!> the trippy qualities of this lovely refined product.
camdump 12jun11c 003.jpg
cn
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Bubble hash - a tiny treatise, part 3 of 3.
The product finally dried down to a leathery solid that smells faintly wonderful. First, the 190µm, which stayed fairly light in color.

camdump 12jun13 003.jpg
The 73µm fraction was the main one. i had to play balance-pan Jenga, and the numbers will say why. I consider this an outstanding yield, esp. since I stopped short of tailing to zero or risking significant green impurity. I also love the drip shapes.
camdump 12jun13 001.jpg
Third we have the 25µm "take". This started out quite pale but air-dried to be the darkest of the bunch.
camdump 12jun13 002.jpg
Last (and least) i have a few prills of something I got by allowing the 25µ supernatant to settle. This is visibly green in good light, but still hashy. I'll smoke it first.
camdump 12jun13 004.jpg

So about 15.3 grams total product from 94 grams of somewhat stemmy bud. I didn't expect to do so well, and it is a pure credit to the grower. (Not myself.)
cn
 

Derple

Well-Known Member
Fast forward to the year of our Lord Two Triple-ought. I'd made a very good friend (I wonder where he is now ... he hasn't returned my twenty phone messages) who suffered from a variety of ills, including depression and a propensity to panic. He smoked modern pure sweet seedless bud, and on a trip to visit him on Oregon I broke my promise with great ceremony.
This was also the heady time when California's Prop 215 promised to be the sharp end of the wedge that would sunder the darkness of the Anslinger era. I listened to my friend's supply woes, and i decided that I was going to make a go of this. At the time I was married, and I'd enlisted the spouse's support. (That story ended up turning slowly and irreparably sour.)
After converting a homemade back compartment of a garden shed into my secret lab OAR a 'try (cue Frankenstein laugh) and becoming a member of Overgrow (still have the t-shirt!!!) I started with soil ... big cheezy plastic pots from Home de Pot filled with garden-variety (sic!) potting soil. I wish i could remember what seedbank I used, but I ordered 10 beans each of "Kimo Sno-Bud" and "Northern Lights #5". My Google searches for Kimo Sno-Bud are coming up dry, so i can't even find out more about it.
Nine Sno-Bud germinated, and five of these were girls. Only one NL germed, and fortunately she was a girl also. After about five months I discovered the oh so special joys of trimming a harvest and ended up with about four ounces of rather nice smoke. I assayed a Sno-Bud nug. It was 11% THC by extraction and gravimetric analysis (weight, basically) of the refined THC. The crude heated extract (essentially bho) was an honest 89% by weight THC. The NL#5 didn't yield much, but oh did it smell hashy.

I then decided I wanted to try hydro. I lived close to a rather good hydro store ... thse guys were mega helpful, and they steered me toward NFT. I set up an ebb&flood table for veg under a 250W MH lamp with the combo hood/ballast. The flowering room, about 4x7 feet, got 2x600W HPS in glazed hoods. For a strain I selected Bros Grim "Cinderella 99".
The other thing that I did was research hydro nutrients. I bought a lovely book, "Plant Nutrient facts for Hydroponics & How to make your own Fully Formulated Plant Nutrient" by Jim McCaskill , published by Foothill Hydroponics, N. Hollywood CA 91601. Using formulae in that book, along with individual nutrient ppm guidelines for cannabis gleaned from web searches, I devised my own salt fert recipes for veg and flower. I compounded these out of entirely ACS reagent salts, available to me because at the time i was still a pro lab chemist. My experiment was to grow a thorougly controlled non-organic crop from seed to bud. I used deionized distilled water and MES (morpholinoethanesulfonic acid) as a non-metabolizable buffer.
All ten beans popped, and they did well in veg for about 6 weeks. They took to my 100% artificial nutes like seals to surf. I transferred them to the NFT gutters, veg'd them a little bigger under the HPS, then flowered them. I was left with 5 femmes, four nice ones and a runt. I kept a small male branch alive and chucked pollen at a pair of lower branches for my very own cindy F1 seeds. Those buds seeded while none others did. I still have the seeds, although after several HOT Rednekistan summers I doubt their viability.

I yielded a bit over a pound of meticulously-groomed bud from that grow. I presented it to a San Fran dispensary where i had an "in" thanks to an Overgrow acquaintance. Even after I disclosed my zero-organic policy, my bud still got top marks, as evidenced by the fact that I sold that pound at their highest purchaser rate.

Very soon after that grow finished, I lost my job and had a full-scale nervous breakdown that led me to where I am today ... a shadow of my former self, relentlessly depressive after every med (incl. green) failed me, alive only by grace of SSDI.
Now that I am really truly alone for the first time since college, that gret pioneer spirit (fuck it, got nothing to lose) kicked in, and I'm almost finished completing my new grow facility. More about that anon. cn
Like reading a book, well written man, very well written.
I think I might've found your Kimo Snow, it seems to have been out breeded by hybrids of it, but I googled around, and found a link which I hope might help you.

http://canadianhempco.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_135&products_id=1511

Looking forward to updates man, subbed. bongsmilie
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Many thanks, Derple. I've since discovered that the Kimo Sno-Bud came from a defunct seedbank called Medical Marijuana Seeds. They had a green cross logo ... cn
 

noob78

Active Member
Awesome thread cannabineer. You have a very interesting journey to get here. Glad you came around enough to share some of your story with us,thanks. Very, Very jealous of your knowledge of chemistry to be able to make your own nutes. That is genius, but catching up on your thread I feel like you are quite the smart man. IF you have answered this question already Im sorry, but since you know chemistry, do you fine tune the feedings with your special mix, meaning do you have certain compounds to work for certain deficiency or is that in your veg mix and flower mix. Sorry for rambling on canna.respect
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Awesome thread cannabineer. You have a very interesting journey to get here. Glad you came around enough to share some of your story with us,thanks. Very, Very jealous of your knowledge of chemistry to be able to make your own nutes. That is genius, but catching up on your thread I feel like you are quite the smart man. IF you have answered this question already Im sorry, but since you know chemistry, do you fine tune the feedings with your special mix, meaning do you have certain compounds to work for certain deficiency or is that in your veg mix and flower mix. Sorry for rambling on canna.respect
Noob, thank you for your kind words! The base recipes are from some work i did eleven, twelve years ago. I grew a batch of Cindy 99 from seed to finish on those. I didn't encounter any deficiencies. My rDWC attempt failed, so i have not yet had the opportunity to do more testing and tuning. I figure the micros are "set". It's the tier-two macros, Ca, Mg, S ... where I still feel I need to do some work. Maybe this winter I'll do a proper hydro grow. Maybe. cn
 

noob78

Active Member
Noob, thank you for your kind words! The base recipes are from some work i did eleven, twelve years ago. I grew a batch of Cindy 99 from seed to finish on those. I didn't encounter any deficiencies. My rDWC attempt failed, so i have not yet had the opportunity to do more testing and tuning. I figure the micros are "set". It's the tier-two macros, Ca, Mg, S ... where I still feel I need to do some work. Maybe this winter I'll do a proper hydro grow. Maybe. cn
Ok thanks, And if I maybe so bold to say this but I know if you want a proper hydro grow you figure it out you nebula's beyond my wisdom. plus rep
 

bowsa

Well-Known Member
Like reading a book, well written man, very well written.
I think I might've found your Kimo Snow, it seems to have been out breeded by hybrids of it, but I googled around, and found a link which I hope might help you.

http://canadianhempco.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_135&products_id=1511

Looking forward to updates man, subbed. bongsmilie
ya man u a weed nerd 10000 posts mabe u should write a book oh u just robbed me of my morning reading this hope to see you on the weed nerd a littel more
 
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