WARNING! Digital/ Electronic ballasts can get you busted! The A.M. radio test!

Tranceus

Active Member
ok i just found out how to stop the interruption first let me tell you guys what i did. I live in a trailer wrapped in tin, i went into my growroom and i hooked up a radio about 9 ft from where my digital ballist is, i unplugged my ballast and i turned on the radio to the best AM channel i could find that was clear, i plugged in my ballast and listened closely and i could hear my ballast powering up through the speakers and i heard the interruption very clearly. so after realizing that my ballast causes radio interference i went to the outside of my tin trailer and hooked up my radio again. this time the radio was positioned about 6 ft from the ballast but was shielded by a tin wall. i did the test over again and heard no interference, i tried it multiple times on different channels and never heard any interference. so i by doing this have found a solution to all of our problems and tin is a very effective solution. if you dont live in a tin building that is a shield then just simply get some tin sheeting a build a box around your ballast and your problem should be solved. Also as a precautionary measure ill be building a tin box for my ballast and ill even post a DIY for you guys in the DIY section when i do it in a couple days. I really hope this helps you guys out and grow safely.
 

ANC

Well-Known Member
While we are talking about balasts, for those who use magnetic ballasts, are you aware that the capacitor in it has a limited lifespan, especialy if it uses a dryfilm cap rather than the canned oil types...
This cap sets up the power factor... think of it as percentage of power it puts through versus how much it uses... So first symptom is a rise in power bill, and then as it degrades further the light output will be reduced as well, but you might need a light meter to spot this... The capacitors are not that expensive, about $10 to $20 depending on source.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
just use an electronic ballast or digital ballast guys they are the best just make sure you make a tin box fuck magnetic ballasts they are bullshit
 

B.B.V.C.

Well-Known Member
Lumatek users should be ok if you have a fairly new ballast, this is right off of their website
[h=4]R.F emissions[/h]Lumatek E-Ballasts are now internally RF shielded and can be used with standard System Cord sets as available in each country worldwide. Our ballasts produce the least amount of EMI (electro- magnetic interference) of any electronic ballast and conform to all international Electro-magnetic emission standards. This applies to all blue and purple models of the Lumatek. The older silver models which employed earlier technology (at the time industry leading) can be upgraded for current models (and the highest EMI standards) at reduced purchase costs; for details please contact us by e-mail or if you are in the USA or Canada tel U.S 1 415 233 4273
 

Tranceus

Active Member
super fucking expensive for some inner tin or some built in jammer
Lumatek users should be ok if you have a fairly new ballast, this is right off of their website
R.F emissions

Lumatek E-Ballasts are now internally RF shielded and can be used with standard System Cord sets as available in each country worldwide. Our ballasts produce the least amount of EMI (electro- magnetic interference) of any electronic ballast and conform to all international Electro-magnetic emission standards. This applies to all blue and purple models of the Lumatek. The older silver models which employed earlier technology (at the time industry leading) can be upgraded for current models (and the highest EMI standards) at reduced purchase costs; for details please contact us by e-mail or if you are in the USA or Canada tel U.S 1 415 233 4273
 

stak

Well-Known Member
ok i just found out how to stop the interruption first let me tell you guys what i did. I live in a trailer wrapped in tin, i went into my growroom and i hooked up a radio about 9 ft from where my digital ballist is, i unplugged my ballast and i turned on the radio to the best AM channel i could find that was clear, i plugged in my ballast and listened closely and i could hear my ballast powering up through the speakers and i heard the interruption very clearly. so after realizing that my ballast causes radio interference i went to the outside of my tin trailer and hooked up my radio again. this time the radio was positioned about 6 ft from the ballast but was shielded by a tin wall. i did the test over again and heard no interference, i tried it multiple times on different channels and never heard any interference. so i by doing this have found a solution to all of our problems and tin is a very effective solution. if you dont live in a tin building that is a shield then just simply get some tin sheeting a build a box around your ballast and your problem should be solved. Also as a precautionary measure ill be building a tin box for my ballast and ill even post a DIY for you guys in the DIY section when i do it in a couple days. I really hope this helps you guys out and grow safely.
an easier solution is to not be a cheap ass person buying the lowest priced ballast you can find on ebay or amazon and instead go with a quality ballast that does not cause RF interference.
 

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
just use an electronic ballast or digital ballast guys they are the best just make sure you make a tin box fuck magnetic ballasts they are bullshit
Once you have run either an electronic or digital ballast for more than 2 decades than you can talk shit, but remember that it all started with a magnetic core ballast. They are far more reliable and you can fix them, open up your digital and see what you can fix, absolutely nothing. No replacing the simple capacitor or even fixing the board, its all covered so you can't do anything to it. I run both at the moment, but i know when my magnetic goes out odds are damn good i can fix it. My electronic goes and i am just replacing it with the old tried and true magnetic ballast.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
i ran 12 magnetic ballasts from 2006 to 2009 so i know plent about them, i personally prefer the electronic and digital ballasts, they are very suffecient and they pay for themself in 12 weeks after they are purchased 10 fold, i like to do stuff myself but there is no way to really monitor the output of a magnetic ballast and its more of a hassle than anything to even mess with them anymore.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
some people dont have much money to start off with so a simple solution to a simple problem that can save you 200 dollars works just as well right? I was just trying to help, sounds like we got a couple people on here that need to go smoke a fucking joint and pull their panties out of their asses.
an easier solution is to not be a cheap ass person buying the lowest priced ballast you can find on ebay or amazon and instead go with a quality ballast that does not cause RF interference.
 

TruenoAE86coupe

Moderator
Do you do anything besides talk shit?
Clearly you ran 12 magnetic ballasts for 3 years, you obviously took all your profits and bought that awesome tin trailer... :dunce:
 

stak

Well-Known Member
some people dont have much money to start off with so a simple solution to a simple problem that can save you 200 dollars works just as well right? I was just trying to help, sounds like we got a couple people on here that need to go smoke a fucking joint and pull their panties out of their asses.
I'm on disability and that means my income is ridiculously limited. On top of that I'm a cheap ass too. But I choose to do things a little smarter. I find the best product that works for my situation then I find the cheapest possible price I can at the most reputable place possible. That way I have a top shelf, reliable product that was made by a good company that will stand behind their product and honor their warranty. I won't buy the cheapest thing I can find and hope it works or that I can rig it to work.

And I usually have a bong in my lap when I post here so I don't think a joint is going to make a difference.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
i acually had a 2 story house with waterfront property in florida before property value went to shit and the mortgage went upside down, 340 thousand dollars paid with 230 left owed and the value went down to 160, it wasnt worth paying for anymore so i gave it up and moved on.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
so what your saying is that i need to not try and help people and be a dick about everything? Is that what being a part of the community is? you can tell people to be more cautious in what they buy without being rude thats all im saying. I feel like the guy that picked up someone in need of help on the side of the road only to get shot in the head and pushed out of my car.
I'm on disability and that means my income is ridiculously limited. On top of that I'm a cheap ass too. But I choose to do things a little smarter. I find the best product that works for my situation then I find the cheapest possible price I can at the most reputable place possible. That way I have a top shelf, reliable product that was made by a good company that will stand behind their product and honor their warranty. I won't buy the cheapest thing I can find and hope it works or that I can rig it to work.

And I usually have a bong in my lap when I post here so I don't think a joint is going to make a difference.
 

Corso312

Well-Known Member
Good info...but I thought all lights cause interference with am radio? I listen to am sports talk often for background noise while working around the house and most lights seem to cause some interference...I don't like Dig ballasts because they are not reliable.. I have had some that shut off when they get a lil warm..while the magnetic ones can run forever at high temps...Ballsy move letting that dude in the house like that, I would have told him I will let him in sometime next week between wednesday and friday between noon and four...like they tell their customers:fire:.
 

Tranceus

Active Member
lol yeah i woulda came up with some reason not to let him in as well but its hard to think when your freaking out and scared also lol.
Good info...but I thought all lights cause interference with am radio? I listen to am sports talk often for background noise while working around the house and most lights seem to cause some interference...I don't like Dig ballasts because they are not reliable.. I have had some that shut off when they get a lil warm..while the magnetic ones can run forever at high temps...Ballsy move letting that dude in the house like that, I would have told him I will let him in sometime next week between wednesday and friday between noon and four...like they tell their customers:fire:.
 

cannav0re

Member
does anyone know why it gives out radio waves? i dont get it. its just suppose to power stuff. so whats with the radio waves? maybe a magnetic coil inside of it? but the old one is magnetic ballast and this new one is digital, does it still have that coil? and why would it have radio waves when the old magnetic ones does not have radio waves? i have this thing about radio waves. since those experts say that too much cell phone can give you cancer. imagine a room filled with these waves and interacting with them every day..... nothing is worth risking getting cancer over.
 

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/blocking-rf-noise-from-digital-ballasts.13090/

Read up.

"Ok, the title is pretty simple. If your running a digital ballast. There is a chance your producing RF noise. If your running a shitload of them. Good chance your keying a large signal and maybe causing problems with the person next door."

Using WiFi blocking paint. Additionally as a musician I can tell you we deal with interference at all times even using humbuckers! Hence my choice to continue to use my old EM systems.

Also consider making a box out of thick copper sheet (on eBay of course) to house your ballast to block the signal there. But consider your light wiring as an antenna which sends as well as receives RF signals.
 

ItsSaturday

Well-Known Member
Ok guys I recently had a pretty close call that could have easily been avoided if I was more informed, so my goal here is hopefully that a mod help me get this post stickied so more people can view it and prevent the problem that I had to face recently.

Let me start off by telling you the situation and a little about my setup. I have 2 different digital ballasts running 600 watts each. You can switch them from mh to hps by changing bulbs. I bought both ballasts on eBay for under $200 each from different sellers, and they are both different brands. THESE BALLASTS ARE WHAT CAUSED MY PROBLEM. This isn't due to the fact that I didn't do research, the information just wasn't available because it is a little known problem that isn't talked about much on these forums.

So here is what happened:
One day I'm surfing the internet and my internet connection goes out. I look outside and there is a truck belonging to my cable internet provider working on a power line, so I wasn't really alarmed. . . . . . .UNTIL I GOT THE KNOCK ON MY DOOR!
The cable technician told me that there was a major disturbance in their cable line coming from my house that was affecting the service of my neighbors and was eating bandwidth and causing signal to get lost in my house. He brought me to his truck and showed me a graph on his computer. He told me that "There is something major going on in your house," and asked me if I had messed with any cables recently or done anything major in the last few days. I just told him the first thing that came to my mind which was that I had an electrician in my house recently and he might have messed something up. When he went back to his truck I had my wife run downstairs to my grow room and turn off the lights, rip up my plants, take down the lights, and throw everything in rubbermade totes. My room is a sealed room built into my basement that is hard to see the door unless you are looking for it. Anyhow, by the time the technician came back from his truck he asked if he could come in and trace my cable wire to make sure that a loose cable wire wasn't causing the problem. I let him in and he came in my basement (right after I smoked a bowl down there, mind you. I also had my wife spray some lysol disinfectant down there to mask the scent). He did find that there were some cable splitters and old wires from where I used to have cable tv but now I only need one wire for my cable modem since I am using Satelite for my tv now. He fixed the cable so that only 1 line was running in my house with no splitters. He then went back to his computer in his truck and said "Well, I don't know if it was something you did or something I did but the problem is fixed." He left shortly after that and for the rest of the night no amount of weed or beer could calm me down from how nervous I was. The man was a foot or two from my grow room door. The good news is I was only one week into this grow and I didn't lose much except I did pay $100 for 10 seeds and I was growing 8 at the time. All it takes is one loudmouth technician see something illegal in your house and you could be toast, so I consider myself lucky that I was actually home at the time of day he showed up and that I handled the situation swiftly and decisively. Just think about it, this guy gets paid to drive around and look for strange radio frequencies. Couldn't a cop use the same technology to bust you with if you aren't careful?

What I've learned since this close call:
While this was happenening and after it was over with I did a search online of "grow light cable interference." If you do this you will see MANY forum posts and websites showing people who have had this problem. What was actually happening is the digital ballasts I had were sending out MASSIVE AMOUNTS of radio waves which interfere with RF, or radio frequency. I also found out that some ballasts do come with RF shields. I do not know if these shields remove 100% of the radio interference or not, all I know is my ballasts must not have had RF shields installed. I also learned that cables and electronics in your house, and even sometimes in your neighbor's houses can be affected by the emissions of digital ballasts. It can even cause service interruption or bad service to your tv or your neighbor's tv while the lights are running. A post I read in a different forum was saying that he thought it was funny that the neighbor was complaining to him about the crappy tv reception between 8am and 8pm, which was the exact time when he was running his lights.

It's a good thing there is a way we can test our ballasts:
Finally, I want to share with everyone the test I found on the internet that can be used to confirm if you are getting RF interference in your grow room. If you know an electrician he may have access to some kind of RF meter that tests frequencies, but don't worry you don't need that. All you need is a radio with the capability to be set to A.M. I call this the A.M. radio test.
You can use F.M. radio for the test as well, but A.M. is affected much more noticeably and therefore is better for the test. All you have to do is bring your radio to your grow room and plug it in. Then set it to A.M. and find the clearest station possible. Once this is done, turn on or plug in your digital ballast. If your ballast is one of the bad ones then the radio station will immediately get very fuzzy. The brighter your light gets as it powers up the more it will make the station turn into static. You can do the same test by turning on the radio next to your closest active cable line and then turning on the ballast, then you can see if the RF interference can reach your cable wires and alert the company that there is a problem. If your radio stays clear then you have nothing to worry about and be glad that you bought a quality product.

In conclusion:
I have since sold my digital lights on eBay and gone with 100% cfl grow lights. I would prefer to use my digital lights but why risk it when you can get similar results and use way less power with cfls. If you or anyone you know uses digital ballasts, please tell them about this problem and have them do the A.M. radio test. What happened to me could happen to anyone, except this time you wouldn't be home, or you would be out of air freshener, or the technician could see your room and report you. I know this post is pretty long but I thank you for reading it and I welcome comments from people who know more about this problem or want to know about it. Hopefully I have helped someone here. Take Care, -ATL
Wrap Your digital ballasts completely in brass screen. Also wrap up about 6 inches to 1 foot of your power cords. It will create whats called a faraday cage. Once this is done you will not have any more interference. I had the same issue years ago and thats what my cable guy told me to do. It worked like a charm and now I can even listen to the raido in my house without any static... LoL Cell phone doesn't work for shit anymore though but I don't really like talking to people on the phone so it works out great for me.
 

fssalaska

Well-Known Member
Digital ballasts are not switchable theres no need for a switch they are digital and can fire MV/MH/HPS and LPS lights without a switch. Also make sure your ballast is not grounded to your Tv cable. .

Radio Frequency Interference ("RFI") and Electro- Magnetic Interference ("EMI")

Since electronic ballasts are operating at considerably higher frequencies than standard ballasts, they may create interference problems within communications systems. Many electronic ballast manufacturers have issued disclaimers on their product if used in conjunction with power line carriers. The FCC has established an acceptable level for class A applications, but ballasts operating in the high range of this standard can still cause problems in today's workplaces, particularly if the cabling is unshielded...and this is a fairly common situation.

There are some ballasts available, however, that operate in the low range of this standard and which will cause no problems, even in sensitive situations.



Typically, one is focused on what is going to ha ppen to light output and current draw when converting to T-8 lamps in conjunction with an electronic ballast. (There are a couple of series of T-8 lamps...both are rated 32 watts but one exhibits both higher lumen output and higher color resolution.) Input wattages of 58-62 are pretty standard for an electronic ballast and two 32 watt T-8 lamps. Typical decent ballast factors (the percentage of a lamp's rated lumens which will be driven out by the ballast) range from 91-96.
If 3 and 4 lamp ballasts are considered, input wattages per lamp will be lowered...but so will the ballast factor! Our experience with 3 and particularly 4-lamp ballasts (regard-less of manufacturer) has been that they are statistically less reliable than 2-lamp ballasts. Increased efficiency often comes at a cost of lower light levels and higher replacement costs.

It is a well-known fact that by utilizing a softer-starting mechanism, the expected life of fluorescent lamps is significantly extended. Rapid-start mechanisms preheat the lamp's electrodes before the required voltage for striking the arc is applied. Instant-starting a lamp, on the other hand, applies the jolt of required voltage without a warm-up period. As one would expect, instant-starting is much harder on the electrode, erodes it prematurely and results in predictably fewer lamp starts before failure. Although lamp replacement cost is not a particularly large percentage of the overall cost of lighting a facility (the dominant portion of cost, by far, is found in the light bill), it is the cost of most concern to a maintenance department since they don't pay the utility bills.

Patterns of usage determine whether or not a facility needs to be concerned with a ballast's starting mechanism. If a facility has long, uninterrupted burn times, then instant starts will have only a minimum effect on lamp life , and one can predict "reasonable" replacement cost values. Many facilities, however, have adopted the policy of turning out lights in unoccupied spaces, even if they are to be unoccupied for short periods. Management edicts and occupancy sensors ensure that this energy savings occurs. This policy results in lots of starts for the lamps. Because a typical instant-start ballast may give only 10,000 starts before the lamp fails vs. say, 50,000 starts for a soft-start ballast, the trade-off is clearly defined.

"Crest Factor"-- Lamp current Crest Factor directly impacts lamp life. It is defined as peak current divided by average current as delivered by the ballast to the lamp(s). Most lamp manufacturers recommend or require a crest factor of < 1.7 and note that 1.414 is a perfect current sine wave...simply as good as it gets for maximal lamp life. So, while "crest factor" deals with the impact of current or amperage on projected lamp life, the impact of voltage is primarily addressed through the starting mechanism3. Parallel vs. Series-Wired Circuits.

Historically, series-wired circuits have been rapid-started and parallel circuits have been instant-started.
The advantage of parallel-wired lamps is that, should one burn out, the other lamps in the fixture continue to function at full strength and the fixture still has sufficient light coming out of it to illuminate the workspace. If the lamps are on a series- circuit, however, and one lamp fails, they both shut down and the fixture ceases its function.

Many of today's office spaces draw their primary light from a single overhead fixture. If this fixture is a series-wired 2- lamper, the implications are obvious. On the other hand, when the "goodness" of parallel circuitry is coupled with instant-starting (as it usually is), the facility operator should be aware of the trade-off...i.e., assurances of continuous light and uninte rrupted productivity may be at the expense of lamp replacement costs.

The facility operator who is concerned with both reason-able lamp life and uninterrupted lighting will be looking for an electronic ballast that is both soft-starting and parallel wired.

Of course, if a facility has a "rapid-response" to lamp failure, potential problems of either system are neutralized. In the case of series-wired, the light is restored promptly and in the case of parallel-wired, the ballast's operating characteristics are maintained. (When one lamp burns out on a parallel circuit, the ballast's load characteristics change and so do some important criteria...namely Harmonic Distortion ("HD") increases and expected ballast life is reduced...both are good reasons to quickly replace the failed lamp).



This particular operating characteristic has been brought pretty much under control as far as the ballasts themselves being generators of dangerously high levels of harmonic distortion. The fact is, a well-structured lighting retrofit will drastically lower the volume of current drawn down by the lighting system. Since the percentage of HD generated by today's crop of electronic ballasts is lower than the standard magnetic ballasts they replace, the overall effect is, almost without exception, a lowered volume of HD in the electrical distribution system as a result of the retrofit.

Still, with the proliferation of non-linear loads, harmonic distortion of any magnitude may create an operating problem. Lowered volume of HD is obviously better than higher, particularly if it can be achieved without sacrifice. We are convinced, however, that it is almost always better to completely eliminate HD through filtering so that proper functioning by all loads requiring a relatively clean sine wave is assured.
 
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