trayvan martin

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
i never noticed if you took a side in all this, but has your opinion about what happened changed since hearing zimm's growing list of lies?
My side is, "I don't give a fuck." It's just fun watching the show from both sides. But, his lying doesn't prove guilt or innocence. I always hated that about the "justice" system. The majority of people will lie if it means getting set free. But lying gets you jail time too even if you're found not guilty and someone else lied. But because the person who lied about you wasn't under oath, you get 5 years perjury, while the other guy gets to laugh in freedom. Bud Dwyer is dead, those scum who lied just went,"Damn, what a pussy!"

If you knew 100% no one saw you somewhere, you didn't do it but were there, and you also don't know who did it. Your saying you were there gets you a trial and months of your life taken away. It still won't find the culprit. Why would you tell the truth?

Some innocent until guilty.

No one can prove shit in this case. Even if Z is found guilty, he'll get it reversed in appeal. If he's guilty, no one can prove that. You can't use the excuse he's an idiot, should've minded his own busines, this could've been prevented or he lied.

The same can be said of Martin. Had he been a good boy he would've not been suspended and at home with dad. Had he just told nutty Z he was visiting daddy. Had he not hit Z.

Had I picked different numbers, I'd have won that $200 million Mega Millions.
 

ginjawarrior

Well-Known Member
My side is, "I don't give a fuck." It's just fun watching the show from both sides. But, his lying doesn't prove guilt or innocence. I always hated that about the "justice" system. The majority of people will lie if it means getting set free. But lying gets you jail time too even if you're found not guilty and someone else lied. But because the person who lied about you wasn't under oath, you get 5 years perjury, while the other guy gets to laugh in freedom. Bud Dwyer is dead, those scum who lied just went,"Damn, what a pussy!"If you knew 100% no one saw you somewhere, you didn't do it but were there, and you also don't know who did it. Your saying you were there gets you a trial and months of your life taken away. It still won't find the culprit. Why would you tell the truth?Some innocent until guilty. No one can prove shit in this case. Even if Z is found guilty, he'll get it reversed in appeal. If he's guilty, no one can prove that. You can't use the excuse he's an idiot, should've minded his own busines, this could've been prevented or he lied.The same can be said of Martin. Had he been a good boy he would've not been suspended and at home with dad. Had he just told nutty Z he was visiting daddy. Had he not hit Z.Had I picked different numbers, I'd have won that $200 million Mega Millions.
only things relevent to trayvan is what his actions that night were and theres no evidence apart from zimmermans word as to how it happenedzimmerman on the otherhand shot someone that fact is beyond reasonable doubt. but zimmerman is claiming self defense as a special defense i'd say its very important if he's lying or not
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
not as damning as a history of violence and killing an innocent kid.

what you're trying to do is the only way to make this work: treat martin with the presumption of guilt.

too bad he was an innocent kid with no history of violence doing nothing wrong. and even if he was jumping out of a house when zimm saw him, that is no excuse for zimm's actions.

douchebag.
No, I am not treating Martin with the presumption of guilt. Your whole analysis relies upon questioning Zimmerman's character. I don't know if that approach will fly in court, but if it does do you think Martin's character will be off the table?

Zimmerman claims that he saw a suspicious character who he thought was casing houses for a burglary. The neighborhood was plagued by burglaries, hence Zimmerman's suspicions were reasonable. Martin, a few months before, had a back pack with ten women's rings and a screw driver in it. The most reasonable interpretation of that is that Martin stole those rings by burgling homes. This further solidifies that Zimmerman's suspicions were justified, though it does nothing to indicate that Martin was a burglar on the night he was shot.

Zimmerman called the SFD non-emergency line to report his suspicions and stayed on the line during the whole incident. Zimmer voluntarily gave a statement to the police after the incident that explained what happened. Those are not the actions of a man who murdered someone. Zimmer was battered, Martin was not. Martin's knuckles were skinned up, Zimmer's hands were pristine. There were 45 seconds of recorded screams for help. Martin was seen by witnesses pounding on Zimmer. All of these facts are corroborated by the physical evidence and by Zimmer's statement to the police immediately after the incident.

Prosecutor Corey bypassed the grand jury and simply charge Zimmer with murder 2. Why would she do that? Because she knew she had a flimsy case that a grand jury would reject? Corey's affidavit of probable cause to make the murder 2 charge contains literally nothing in the way of probable cause, although it does contain some (intentionally ?) loaded words such as "profiled". It looks like this prosecution is being carried out simply to assuage moral outrage and to prevent civil unrest, i.e, it is simply politically motivated.

Personally, I am not willing to lynch an innocent man simply because a bunch of gun-o-phobes don't like the SYG laws, or because they think its time for some retribution for the black man. Neither you, nor anybody else, has the right to assault somebody and attempt to beat them to death with impunity.

You and several others on this thread are trotting out allegations that are even flimsier than Corey's. Stuff that is easily explainable, like the "smothering" thing and pretending like it somehow shows Zimmer's guilt. Martin clamped his hand over Zimmer's mouth either to smother Zimmer, or, more likely, just to stop his screaming, Zimmer pushed Martin's hands away and moments later shot Martin dead.

I will be surprised if this ever goes to trial, a fair minded judge (maybe there is one) can't possibly look at the prosecution's case and conclude that it supports anything except simple self defense on Zimmer's part. Martin assaulted Zimmer, that seems beyond argument. Zimmer feared for his life and shot Martin dead. Simple self defense, and justified under SYG in Florida.

The only caveat I will offer is this: maybe the prosecution has some real evidence that refutes all of the simple facts of the case laid out above, and I will happily change my mind on this if there is any credible evidence that refutes all of the very compelling evidence cited above. I don't believe Corey has any such evidence, though, because if she did she would have taken it to a grand jury, and the affidavit of probable cause would have actually contained some probable cause.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
No, I am not treating Martin with the presumption of guilt. Your whole analysis relies upon questioning Zimmerman's character. I don't know if that approach will fly in court, but if it does do you think Martin's character will be off the table?
martin's completely non-violent past will be on the table along with zimmerboy's violence-riddled past.

but my analysis is not reliant upon zimm's character alone. his actions that night are sufficient, his history of violence and getting himself involved is just icing on the cake.

Zimmerman claims that he saw a suspicious character who he thought was casing houses for a burglary. The neighborhood was plagued by burglaries, hence Zimmerman's suspicions were reasonable. Martin, a few months before, had a back pack with ten women's rings and a screw driver in it.
and zimmerman was supposed to know this how? :dunce:

Zimmerman called the SFD non-emergency line to report his suspicions and stayed on the line during the whole incident.
until the part where he went off looking for martin so that he could detain him.

Zimmer voluntarily gave a statement to the police after the incident that explained what happened. Those are not the actions of a man who murdered someone.
except that many murderers who fancied themselves good liars have fucked themselves this exact way. :dunce:

Martin's knuckles were skinned up...
listen to the interrogation. serino clearly lets on that martin's one little imperfection does not exactly correspond with zimmerman's tall tale that he was punched approximately 25-30 times.

really dude, you need to familiarize youself with the evidence in this case, until then you are making yourself look like a jackass.

Martin was seen by witnesses pounding on Zimmer. All of these facts are corroborated by the physical evidence and by Zimmer's statement to the police immediately after the incident.
we don't know if this was martin defending himself or not. we do know the injuries appear completely non-life threatening.

...loaded words such as "profiled".
that's because zimm profiled martin. umm, duh?

It looks like this prosecution is being carried out simply to assuage moral outrage and to prevent civil unrest, i.e, it is simply politically motivated.
then explain why serino wanted manslaughter BEFORE this was ever a news story.

anyone who tries to say this is "politically motivated" is displaying, in the most subtle and coded of ways, their acceptance of bigotry.

Personally, I am not willing to lynch an innocent man...
see what i just said above. talk about loaded words.

simply because a bunch of gun-o-phobes don't like the SYG laws, or because they think its time for some retribution for the black man.
and there it is. we all just hate guns or have white guilt.

thanks for exposing your bigotry. calling this case "politically motivated" is too subtle, you just had to come on out and say that you basicaly just don't like black people all that much and feel that they get some kind of special rights when that is anything but the case here.

Neither you, nor anybody else, has the right to assault somebody and attempt to beat them to death with impunity.
and there you go treating martin with the presumption of guilt again.

you do not know that an assault was occurring. there is every reason (and more) to believe that martin was defending himself from a vigilante with a gun who was trying to detain him for no reason.

but in your mind, that scenario is impossible, because you are a bigot who just assumes that martin must have been an angry, violent black guy, despite his complete and utter lack of violence in his his past.

You and several others on this thread are trotting out allegations that are even flimsier than Corey's. Stuff that is easily explainable, like the "smothering" thing and pretending like it somehow shows Zimmer's guilt. Martin clamped his hand over Zimmer's mouth either to smother Zimmer, or, more likely, just to stop his screaming, Zimmer pushed Martin's hands away and moments later shot Martin dead.
that's just ONE of dozens of lies that zimmer told.

that you believe it is a reflection on your lack of intelligence.

I will be surprised if this ever goes to trial, a fair minded judge (maybe there is one) can't possibly look at the prosecution's case and conclude that it supports anything except simple self defense on Zimmer's part.
says the self righteous bigot.

Martin assaulted Zimmer, that seems beyond argument.
only to people who treat the black kid with the presumption of guilt.

i find it much more likely that martin was defending himself against a mentally unbalanced vigilante with a gun who was trying to detain him.

Zimmer feared for his life and shot Martin dead. Simple self defense, and justified under SYG in Florida.
self defense doesn't apply when you get out of your place of safety and chase a kid around with your gun, dumbass.

The only caveat I will offer is this: maybe the prosecution has some real evidence that refutes all of the simple facts of the case laid out above, and I will happily change my mind on this if there is any credible evidence that refutes all of the very compelling evidence cited above. I don't believe Corey has any such evidence, though, because if she did she would have taken it to a grand jury, and the affidavit of probable cause would have actually contained some probable cause.
you just exposed yourself as a bigot through and through with your self righteous douchebaggery laid out above.

fuck you.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You care to bet that this goes to trial or Zimm pleas out...it will be one or the other
he also thinks that a kid with no history of violence who ran away from zimm was assaulting, rather than defending himself from, a mentally unbalanced vigilante with a gun and a history of violence who was chasing him around.

in other words, he's treating martin with the presumption of guilt, and ignoring completely the actions and histories of both men. he chooses to base his assumptions on something else entirely.

then he has the nerve to say that anyone who disagrees with his lopsided analysis is just a gunaphobe or caving to white guilt or something.

in other words, DEAsert dude just exposed himself for the self righteous bigot that he is.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
The Zimm will pay for his crimes. You have to believe Zimm for him to get off. He has told to many lies. His story does not add up. How many lies does one tell before you say he is dishonest. I guess when he was telling and showing his story he forgot that 911 tapes would refute some of what he says. I hope this trial let cameras in the court room
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
The Zimm will pay for his crimes. You have to believe Zimm for him to get off. He has told to many lies. His story does not add up. How many lies does one tell before you say he is dishonest. I guess when he was telling and showing his story he forgot that 911 tapes would refute some of what he says. I hope this trial let cameras in the court room
his written statement does not match his video statement, which does not match his interrogations, which do not match later interrogations.

but listening to DEAsert dude, this is all just politically motivated black retribution and zimmerman is a saint.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
martin's completely non-violent past will be on the table along with zimmerboy's violence-riddled past. but my analysis is not reliant upon zimm's character alone. his actions that night are sufficient, his history of violence and getting himself involved is just icing on the cake. and zimmerman was supposed to know this how? :dunce: until the part where he went off looking for martin so that he could detain him. except that many murderers who fancied themselves good liars have fucked themselves this exact way. :dunce: listen to the interrogation. serino clearly lets on that martin's one little imperfection does not exactly correspond with zimmerman's tall tale that he was punched approximately 25-30 times. really dude, you need to familiarize youself with the evidence in this case, until then you are making yourself look like a jackass. we don't know if this was martin defending himself or not. we do know the injuries appear completely non-life threatening. that's because zimm profiled martin. umm, duh? then explain why serino wanted manslaughter BEFORE this was ever a news story. anyone who tries to say this is "politically motivated" is displaying, in the most subtle and coded of ways, their acceptance of bigotry. see what i just said above. talk about loaded words. and there it is. we all just hate guns or have white guilt. thanks for exposing your bigotry. calling this case "politically motivated" is too subtle, you just had to come on out and say that you basicaly just don't like black people all that much and feel that they get some kind of special rights when that is anything but the case here. and there you go treating martin with the presumption of guilt again. you do not know that an assault was occurring. there is every reason (and more) to believe that martin was defending himself from a vigilante with a gun who was trying to detain him for no reason. but in your mind, that scenario is impossible, because you are a bigot who just assumes that martin must have been an angry, violent black guy, despite his complete and utter lack of violence in his his past. that's just ONE of dozens of lies that zimmer told. that you believe it is a reflection on your lack of intelligence. says the self righteous bigot. only to people who treat the black kid with the presumption of guilt. i find it much more likely that martin was defending himself against a mentally unbalanced vigilante with a gun who was trying to detain him. self defense doesn't apply when you get out of your place of safety and chase a kid around with your gun, dumbass. you just exposed yourself as a bigot through and through with your self righteous douchebaggery laid out above. fuck you.
This is UnclePissyPants taking the high road. lol
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
You care to bet that this goes to trial or Zimm pleas out...it will be one or the other
I doubt Zim will plead out unless there is evidence that has not yet been exposed.

Will it go to trial? That's a tougher question to answer. As Alan Dershowitz said after seeing the affidavit of probable cause, "a fair judge will dismiss these charges", but this is no ordinary case. Al Sharpton is stirring the pot and the president has put in his two cents worth. The Black Panther Party put a price on Zimmerman's head. Two of the major networks phonied up evidence to make Zim look like a racist, and to make it look like he was uninjured. That is a potent combination of forces all calling for Zimmerman's head. It will take a truly courageous judge to do the right thing in these circumstances, especially when he can just let a jury decide and then be blameless.

If it goes to trial what is the likely verdict. The facts all call for acquittal, but a whole lot of people want Zim's head, evidence be damned; just look at this thread. That's why my prediction is a hung jury.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
It will take a truly courageous judge to do the right thing in these circumstances...
you're a racist retard.

we've got a self defense claim here being put forth by a mentally unstable, drug-addled vigilante with a history of violence and a propensity for bad judgment and lying.

and to you, this means taht it MUST not go to trial, and if it does, an injustice has been done?

racist. retard.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
you're a racist retard.

we've got a self defense claim here being put forth by a mentally unstable, drug-addled vigilante with a history of violence and a propensity for bad judgment and lying.

and to you, this means taht it MUST not go to trial, and if it does, an injustice has been done?

racist. retard.
I guess me and Alan Dershowitz are just racists because we are able to look at the facts presented by the prosecution and realize there are none.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I guess me and Alan Dershowitz are just racists because we are able to look at the facts presented by the prosecution and realize there are none.
no, you're a racist because of your continued assumption that martin assaulted zimmerman, when the fact is that we don't know if it was self defense or not.

considering martin had no history of violence and was running away and zimmerman had a long history of violence and was searching for him, your continued assumption that it was assault is retarded. not to mention that you decry the fact that people like al sharpton don't want this questionable case quietly swept under the rug. you leave hints everywhere. you've exposed yourself.

congratulations.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Dershowitz is an interested party, and the epitome of a moral weathervane. He was instrumental in getting Simpson and Anthony acquitted iirc. He doesn't give a rodent's pelvis about Zimmerman or Martin. he senses the opportunity for another fame-enhancing high-deflection shot here. I would not consider Dershowitz to be interested from any higher principle than Enlightened Self-interest. cn
 
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