Europe Timeline 3 months

[Harrekin]

What would you personally rather own: $100,000 in US dollars (or Euros, or Yen, or you choose), or $100K worth of gold?

I'd rather just trade my fake, easy to acquire money for gold, yet keep some of said fake money for liquidity...not many places accept gold sadly.

I do accept that a sub-currency based on gold or gold being legal tender alongside a fiat currency are valid options, but you could NEVER back a currency the size of the dollar for example with gold.

 

[Balzac89]

Well there is no other real commodity that can hold value like Gold and having faith in paper printed by a private bank that charges intrest on said currency loaned to government. Golds value is held in its relative rarity to most other commodities. MAybe in the future we can use chickens to sell stuff cause I don't know anyother system that would work as well as a gold/silver backed currency.

 

[Harrekin]

Well there is no other real commodity that can hold value like Gold and having faith in paper printed by a private bank that charges intrest on said currency loaned to government. Golds value is held in its relative rarity to most other commodities. MAybe in the future we can use chickens to sell stuff cause I don't know anyother system that would work as well as a gold/silver backed currency.

Again, where do you get all the silver/gold from to back this currency? You can't use paper gold, it has to be the physical metal.

 

[NoDrama]

That's not exactly true, at all. Some countries' in the EU are rocking a 300-400% trade deficit, and that's only the deficit they admit to! What's the US's deficit? (I"m seriously not sure, lol). I think it's around 7% of GDP though?

The US Deficit is more than 100% of GDP.

Deficit = $15.6 TRILLION
GDP=$14.59 TRILLION

 

[NoDrama]

I'd rather just trade my fake, easy to acquire money for gold, yet keep some of said fake money for liquidity...not many places accept gold sadly.

I do accept that a sub-currency based on gold or gold being legal tender alongside a fiat currency are valid options, but you could NEVER back a currency the size of the dollar for example with gold.

You can EASILY back all US Paper money with gold, all you gotta do is revalue gold. $60,000 an ounce for starters.

 

[Harrekin]

You can EASILY back all US Paper money with gold, all you gotta do is revalue gold. $60,000 an ounce for starters.

Lol, yeah, just revalue it

A subcurrency backed with gold is totally possible, you could have Federal Reserve dollars and a gold backed "United States Dollar" with both as legal tender, however the total money supply wouldn't that big. I think Italy have the largest sovereign gold reserves at approx 650 bill EUR (at "today" rates).

 

[NoDrama]

The USA has the largest gold reserves, Italy is #4 after the International Monetary fund at #3 and Germany is at #2.

USA has 3 times as much gold as Italy.

 

[Harrekin]

The USA has the largest gold reserves, Italy is #4 after the International Monetary fund at #3 and Germany is at #2.

USA has 3 times as much gold as Italy.

I stand corrected and shown once again that the news people can't even get simple facts right.

But the USAs gold reserves are still what? 12/13 trillion short of the annual US Fed Govt Budget alone?

 

[Balzac89]

The United States has no silver in its vault only gold. What do you purpose we do Harrekin? I still think the chickens idea might sufice.

 

[NoDrama]

Lol, yeah, just revalue it

A subcurrency backed with gold is totally possible, you could have Federal Reserve dollars and a gold backed "United States Dollar" with both as legal tender, however the total money supply wouldn't that big. I think Italy have the largest sovereign gold reserves at approx 650 bill EUR (at "today" rates).

Lets see, world was on a gold standard for 5000 years, on a paper standard for 41. HMMMM yep, gold not doable....LOL pleeeaase.

Why would you back federal reserve dollars with gold from the Treasury? That would be STOOOOOOOOPID to the max. That would be like giving all your money to the alcoholic gambling addicted bum standing on the corner.

You would back US Treasury dollars with US Government held gold instead.

OR, maybe, just maybe the reason that the world central banks are the largest BUYERS of gold right now is because they can see the writing on the wall? No fiat currency ever lasted long, They can reduce the value of the Federal Reserve note to zero overnight, but you can never have a price of zero for gold.

 

[beardo]

It would make more sense if govts minted their own currency and if tax payers paid taxes to their govt to fund govt spending and spending was limited to tax revenue-
That sounds like a solution

 

[InCognition]

Cryptocurrency, you mean a currency backed by absolutely nothing is going to form part of your "sound currency"?

I know you're excited cos you just discovered Rawn Paul and Bitcoins, but you still havnt come up with an asset that has a real world value to back your "sound currency", you just keep telling me I don't understand while offering nothing of value.

There are plenty of assets to back real world currency, including gold. I offer nothing of value to you, because again, monetary philosophy goes right over your head, in regards to how a nation might possible orchestrate the proper workings of a real asset-back currency.

You have no apparent understanding of how sound currency needs to work in relation with a logarithmically created asset. Without that understanding, you'll never understand how proper monetary policy should work. The way it works in America now is not how it should work, and every nation across the face of this earth will most likely find that out the hard way, over and over again, just like many have before.

Your paper currency is actually much worse than a properly-established cryptocurrency would ever be. Sound currency can possess worth if it stands for nothing else other than it's sound-integrity. Yes, integrity is indeed an asset, it's just not tangible. Cryptocurrencies could be backed by physical assets as well.

Just because your unable to comprehend a system beyond the monopoly money that we use today, doesn't make any other system non-doable, it just highlights your ignorant thought process. The currency we use today is not sound, and is backed by no assets - tangible or non-tangible, therefore it's not even on the same playing field as a potentially proper cryptocurrency which could possess either properties.

Telling you what a sound asset is, would be like trying to tell a blind kid what the Statue of Liberty looks like. It's apparently impossible at this point in time, so why would I continue to bother when you have absolutely no clue?

 

[InCognition]

It would make more sense if govts minted their own currency and if tax payers paid taxes to their govt to fund govt spending and spending was limited to tax revenue-
That sounds like a solution

Yup, this would work. Unfortunately politicians will do what they are great at... spending money that is not theirs. Spending so much that they have found it necessary to break the fundamental rule you just posted above.

And people think it's crazy to bring a sound, asset-backed, currency back into play to defeat this sort of money-manipulation. What's more crazy, is not trying to change the current system of currency and monetary policy we practice now. Oh well, some people don't like to change things, and instead like to take a nose-dive into the ground, in order to figure out they were wrong.

 

[Harrekin]

Lol, more cock-babble from Cock-Technician. You still havnt named an asset that could back a currency to replace the Dollar/Euro and keep an adequate money supply in circulation.

Id love a solid "backed" currency, but realistically speaking, there isn't enough gold to back a modern currency. It should be monetized alongside our current currency tho.

It's my pragmatism versus your pure idealism on this one, and acting like you're smarter cos I disagree doesn't make you look smarter, it makes you look like a typical California ex-lefty but current Ron Paul fanboy

If you wanna follow a real Libertarian without bullshit pie in the sky ideas, follow Gary Johnston, at least he got nominated

 

[InCognition]

Lol, more cock-babble from Cock-Technician. You still havnt named an asset that could back a currency to replace the Dollar/Euro and keep an adequate money supply in circulation.

Id love a solid "backed" currency, but realistically speaking, there isn't enough gold to back a modern currency. It should be monetized alongside our current currency tho.

It's my pragmatism versus your pure idealism on this one, and acting like you're smarter cos I disagree doesn't make you look smarter, it makes you look like a typical California ex-lefty but current Ron Paul fanboy

If you wanna follow a real Libertarian without bullshit pie in the sky ideas, follow Gary Johnston, at least he got nominated

I have named assets, you just have ignored them or ignorantly shunned them for reason you're not even ware of yourself. I'm not sure if you caught my jist on a potential cryptocurrency system, and how it can hold sound-value based off a non-tangible asset we call integrity. Maybe you don't believe that integrity in a currency backed by none other that such, is sound, but it surely would be.

The currency we hold now is backed by nothing other than the value of promises which exponentially diminish in value due to devaluation, and debt which exponentially increases for the same reason. A currency that is backed by a promise and/or debt is not sound when the promises are worth less every day, and the debt is worth more every day. No other currency could be any less sound.

There is enough gold to back a modern currency, it would just have to be drastically revalued. Of course this would not be the proper solution to enact aggressively, as anyone holding gold would essentially bear the benefits of the greatest transfer of wealth in history, if such an event occurred. If it were to be done the logistics of doing it without blind-sidedly robbing anyone who doesn't hold gold, would be difficult, but that's not to say it could not be done.

Then again the greatest transfer of wealth in history has already occurred. The banks are, and have been the beneficiary of this wealth transfer for a long time... and it's all due to the US dollar.

 

[NoDrama]

there isn't enough gold to back a modern currency.

There is plenty of gold to back all currencies, there is more refined gold right now than at any time in history, and tomorrow there will be even more.

 

[Harrekin]

I have named assets, you just have ignored them or ignorantly shunned them for reason you're not even ware of yourself. I'm not sure if you caught my jist on a potential cryptocurrency system, and how it can hold sound-value based off a non-tangible asset we call integrity. Maybe you don't believe that integrity in a currency backed by none other that such, is sound, but it surely would be.

The currency we hold now is backed by nothing other than the value of promises which exponentially diminish in value due to devaluation, and debt which exponentially increases for the same reason. A currency that is backed by a promise and/or debt is not sound when the promises are worth less every day, and the debt is worth more every day. No other currency could be any less sound.

There is enough gold to back a modern currency, it would just have to be drastically revalued. Of course this would not be the proper solution to enact aggressively, as anyone holding gold would essentially bear the benefits of the greatest transfer of wealth in history, if such an event occurred. If it were to be done the logistics of doing it without blind-sidedly robbing anyone who doesn't hold gold, would be difficult, but that's not to say it could not be done.

Then again the greatest transfer of wealth in history has already occurred. The banks are, and have been the beneficiary of this wealth transfer for a long time... and it's all due to the US dollar.

You realise a currency that is backed by nothing other than "integrity" is a fiat currency right? If your problem is with the Federal Reserve just say so, but a fiat currency that is controlled properly and in a transparent fashion is the most practical solution for today. Gold standard just isn't practical anymore and it's a joke term to modern economists.

Its a bit sad that you and NoDrama jumped on my "there's not enough gold" comment, use your brains, I was clearly referring to the fact there's not enough gold held in sovereign reserves to back an extremely large currency like the USD There must be hundreds of trillions of dollars in circulation.

Just try fix the current system, add a gold-backed sub currency and stop humping turtles with Old Mc Ronald, as I said before, if you want a pragmatic libertarian to worship, GJ is a far better choice (and less likely to die any day soon).

 

[NoDrama]

Its a bit sad that you and NoDrama jumped on my "there's not enough gold" comment, use your brains, I was clearly referring to the fact there's not enough gold held in sovereign reserves to back an extremely large currency like the USD There must be hundreds of trillions of dollars in circulation.

Revalue the gold, its not like it hasn't been done before. You do realize that all the gold in US possession is being valued at the set price of gold before Nixon closed the window right? It is valued at $35 an ounce because it was REVALUED to that sum by FDR, previously it was SET at about $20. Make the US Dollar backed by gold and the new dollar will purchase 10,000 times as much as it did before. They could revalue gold to $1 per ounce and 1 ounce of gold would buy you a car, thus $1 dollar would buy you a car. The price is an arbitrary number, its the value of the underlying commodity that matters. With a gold backing there wouldn't be massive inflationary pressure anymore.

You don't have to actually carry the physical metal around, you use warehouse notes called DOLLARS that you can turn into the treasury for the actual metal if you like.

 

[Harrekin]

You make a much more reasoned argument than Cock Technician, I still think there's huge practical implications but I got some nice Amnesia and just can't think, lol.

Tried to do some simple coding earlier, big mistake, was like a retard trying to do it.

 

[nontheist]