t2kallday
Active Member
does anyone have an estimate on my yeild???
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trichomedome
Active Member
The best time regardless of what your doing with it/them is when it,s in veg otherwise they grow a bit strange for the 1st 3/4 weeks then there fine. atb Tcdwhen is the best time to clone a plant for a sog or scrog grow? cant seem to get an answer
trichomedome
Active Member
A lot
well done, Ime you can,t take clones after week 6 but as fmily said reveging a flowering plant is simple enogh that,s what i do to save a strain/pheno. atb Tcd
woodsmantoker
Well-Known Member
Howdy Scroggers!
Time for Q&A's with the Woodsmantoker~
First I would like to thank all of the fine help around these parts, you folks have been a great help to the community.
I would also like to say, I have not gotten any "New" questions in quite a while and thus have stayed mostly quiet while others chime in. All new members or new to scrog, I suggest you take some time to skim through the thread. Its long these days I know, but worth the effort I assure you. From the start of this thread up to current date I believe most anything you want to know about scrog is detailed. New information emerges in time and is more spread out through the pages, but basic concepts repeat themselves quite a bit and should not take much time to find. As you will notice, I post from time to time updates for the "image bank" here at ETS/SUPP titled (Scrog Images From Around The Globe). Viewing these can also answer countless questions you may have. Mostly the images consist of finished work, but I also include some work in progress, images that share concepts or ideas in visual form. The more time you spend with these images, the more you gain especially if your a visual learner like many of us are. For those who do well with written descriptions, I urge you to read through some of the more elaborate posts and conversations. If you find something you would like to cross reference, feel free to shoot me your questions, I would be happy to give you my opinion. Others here are great help and may have the answers you are looking for, if not, post your questions for me with a title to that effect and I will catch you up to speed as soon as I am available.
Sorry I have been away so much folks,
I am currently teaching in Michigan (medical cannabis cultivation classes and weekend ScrOG workshops) at local compassion clubs, and have started a new company called Scrog Technologies. Were making portable/adjustable/roll away single plant scrog pods and are just getting on the market with them (special orders only at present time, were backed up) so time has not been something I have much of these days however, I will always make time for my scrog fiends online, and will continue this thread as long as I may.
As for topping/fimming/super cropping/LST and any other training technique you can find or dream up, ALL are contingent upon the particular plant used and its response. Not all plants respond well to various types of stress or any "training" at all for that matter. From Various Genotypes to particular phenotypes each and every variation may exhibit anything from slight to dramatic differences. Some respond with outstanding results and become "Scrog Strains" while others get labeled "stressless preferred" and move into more suitable gardens for that type of plant. While some plants may not respond well to "training" methods, all cannabis plants can be supported via trellising and gain the advantage of protection and support. Where the term "Scrog" is coined as method or technique of which for most means the utilization of training, the bottom line is that trellising has been a tool used by gardeners for a very long time and very good reason. Where training may be slightly limited in cannabis cultivation, the concept of trellising in its self applies well to cultivation of quality
and quantity so as we feel, a screen/net/mesh/fence/web etc., has its place in the ganga garden regardless.
In response to recent questions: I would like to note the importance of flat screening.
Where it is obvious through experimentation and reviewed journals etc. that other variations of trellising cannabis such as "V-scrog, U-scrog, Stadium, Vertical, etc." all typically produce a similar result in relation to flat. The differences are not always as notable to the inexperienced, and often continue to be missed long after a gardener is convinced they are on to something "bigger better badder". Typically these methods are attempting to key in on another control aspect of how we garden such as the shape of the bulbs we use, or the pattern or footprint left by light hoods and reflectors. As we can prove, light is not always cast evenly with these pieces of equipment, and thus it leads us to believe that we can better utilize the energy by adapting to the shape at which the light is cast. The problems with these variations in my opinion is simple; no matter what you gain in changing the shape from flat, you loose via consequent production of bi-product (ie. Stem). When a plant recognizes its relative position to gravitational pull (gravatropism) it positions its self accordingly to bare the burden of weight/force by turning vertically. Through evolution of the stem structure, its design is much like a 2x4 or I beam. Vertically, the amount of pressure it can withstand is immense. When turned horizontally however the amount is dramatically less. During flowering, if the colas position is anything other than vertical, the response is the same as when LSTing (bending branches); Auxins are released and the plant uses energy on stem production in order to accommodate the increasing pressure from flower production and gravitational force. This lends to the theory that to gain the most from low stress training, it must be done during the vegetative cycle. To gain the most uniform and ideal flower structure possible without unusable stem mass production, flowering must be done vertically. "I don't know about you folks, but I don't use the stems for anything other than tea, and the best tea stems are small lush bud stems" (however I have been known to grind stem and press it into a brick that is used in my furnace however, its not my goal... YET)
Does Vertical Scrog have its place somewhere in someone's garden for any reason not previously discussed? Of course, don't limit yourself. To grow as a gardener, you increase your knowledge and add to your "bag of tricks" making your abilities and understanding that much more diverse. If your interested in expanding your knowledge and ability to apply various concepts to meet your own particular needs, explore!
As for weight guessing your crop:
A "good" scrogger will produce around or just over a pound per plant using a 1000watts of light (nearly the same using 600watt digital these days) and a 4'x4' area with most good scrog friendly strains. If your within your first few runs with scrog, I would say 8 ounces or better and your doing well. Its not hard to do well with scrog, typically those who produce less have more issues in the actual gardening aspect rather than being less effective with training or utilization of a screen. If I had to guess T2kallday, you will pull a pound near or around, you will be trimming for a while however (strain dependent) .
SIDE NOTE FROM SCROG TALK: for my less informed scroggers; Given the right conditions, a cannabis plant can re-root during any time of its life cycle given adequate conditions. As others have pointed out, the time period of which it takes to revert back to a normal vegetative pattern, is what varies. This can also vary from strain to strain. Example: Just took a Death Cheese bud that would have been put into a trimmer, and instead dipped its stem in a rooting gel and put it off to the side as a new clone (root cube, set in perlite, in a Dixie cup set in another cup, sandwich baggie over the top and pinched between the two cups to create a mini green house, one corner cut off the bag for air circulation...fyi). A week or so later it had rooted, and after a month, its now a large vegging plant outdoors. (bet the guy who had me helping trim, had no idea I would end up with his cut just from being at his trim party_that's the ropes with re-vegg, tissue culture presents a whole new game when it comes to gathering new genetics...)
If anyone has further questions - ? Feel free...
Woodsmantoker~
Time for Q&A's with the Woodsmantoker~
First I would like to thank all of the fine help around these parts, you folks have been a great help to the community.
I would also like to say, I have not gotten any "New" questions in quite a while and thus have stayed mostly quiet while others chime in. All new members or new to scrog, I suggest you take some time to skim through the thread. Its long these days I know, but worth the effort I assure you. From the start of this thread up to current date I believe most anything you want to know about scrog is detailed. New information emerges in time and is more spread out through the pages, but basic concepts repeat themselves quite a bit and should not take much time to find. As you will notice, I post from time to time updates for the "image bank" here at ETS/SUPP titled (Scrog Images From Around The Globe). Viewing these can also answer countless questions you may have. Mostly the images consist of finished work, but I also include some work in progress, images that share concepts or ideas in visual form. The more time you spend with these images, the more you gain especially if your a visual learner like many of us are. For those who do well with written descriptions, I urge you to read through some of the more elaborate posts and conversations. If you find something you would like to cross reference, feel free to shoot me your questions, I would be happy to give you my opinion. Others here are great help and may have the answers you are looking for, if not, post your questions for me with a title to that effect and I will catch you up to speed as soon as I am available.
Sorry I have been away so much folks,
I am currently teaching in Michigan (medical cannabis cultivation classes and weekend ScrOG workshops) at local compassion clubs, and have started a new company called Scrog Technologies. Were making portable/adjustable/roll away single plant scrog pods and are just getting on the market with them (special orders only at present time, were backed up) so time has not been something I have much of these days however, I will always make time for my scrog fiends online, and will continue this thread as long as I may.
As for topping/fimming/super cropping/LST and any other training technique you can find or dream up, ALL are contingent upon the particular plant used and its response. Not all plants respond well to various types of stress or any "training" at all for that matter. From Various Genotypes to particular phenotypes each and every variation may exhibit anything from slight to dramatic differences. Some respond with outstanding results and become "Scrog Strains" while others get labeled "stressless preferred" and move into more suitable gardens for that type of plant. While some plants may not respond well to "training" methods, all cannabis plants can be supported via trellising and gain the advantage of protection and support. Where the term "Scrog" is coined as method or technique of which for most means the utilization of training, the bottom line is that trellising has been a tool used by gardeners for a very long time and very good reason. Where training may be slightly limited in cannabis cultivation, the concept of trellising in its self applies well to cultivation of quality
and quantity so as we feel, a screen/net/mesh/fence/web etc., has its place in the ganga garden regardless.
In response to recent questions: I would like to note the importance of flat screening.
Where it is obvious through experimentation and reviewed journals etc. that other variations of trellising cannabis such as "V-scrog, U-scrog, Stadium, Vertical, etc." all typically produce a similar result in relation to flat. The differences are not always as notable to the inexperienced, and often continue to be missed long after a gardener is convinced they are on to something "bigger better badder". Typically these methods are attempting to key in on another control aspect of how we garden such as the shape of the bulbs we use, or the pattern or footprint left by light hoods and reflectors. As we can prove, light is not always cast evenly with these pieces of equipment, and thus it leads us to believe that we can better utilize the energy by adapting to the shape at which the light is cast. The problems with these variations in my opinion is simple; no matter what you gain in changing the shape from flat, you loose via consequent production of bi-product (ie. Stem). When a plant recognizes its relative position to gravitational pull (gravatropism) it positions its self accordingly to bare the burden of weight/force by turning vertically. Through evolution of the stem structure, its design is much like a 2x4 or I beam. Vertically, the amount of pressure it can withstand is immense. When turned horizontally however the amount is dramatically less. During flowering, if the colas position is anything other than vertical, the response is the same as when LSTing (bending branches); Auxins are released and the plant uses energy on stem production in order to accommodate the increasing pressure from flower production and gravitational force. This lends to the theory that to gain the most from low stress training, it must be done during the vegetative cycle. To gain the most uniform and ideal flower structure possible without unusable stem mass production, flowering must be done vertically. "I don't know about you folks, but I don't use the stems for anything other than tea, and the best tea stems are small lush bud stems" (however I have been known to grind stem and press it into a brick that is used in my furnace however, its not my goal... YET)
Does Vertical Scrog have its place somewhere in someone's garden for any reason not previously discussed? Of course, don't limit yourself. To grow as a gardener, you increase your knowledge and add to your "bag of tricks" making your abilities and understanding that much more diverse. If your interested in expanding your knowledge and ability to apply various concepts to meet your own particular needs, explore!
As for weight guessing your crop:
A "good" scrogger will produce around or just over a pound per plant using a 1000watts of light (nearly the same using 600watt digital these days) and a 4'x4' area with most good scrog friendly strains. If your within your first few runs with scrog, I would say 8 ounces or better and your doing well. Its not hard to do well with scrog, typically those who produce less have more issues in the actual gardening aspect rather than being less effective with training or utilization of a screen. If I had to guess T2kallday, you will pull a pound near or around, you will be trimming for a while however (strain dependent) .
SIDE NOTE FROM SCROG TALK: for my less informed scroggers; Given the right conditions, a cannabis plant can re-root during any time of its life cycle given adequate conditions. As others have pointed out, the time period of which it takes to revert back to a normal vegetative pattern, is what varies. This can also vary from strain to strain. Example: Just took a Death Cheese bud that would have been put into a trimmer, and instead dipped its stem in a rooting gel and put it off to the side as a new clone (root cube, set in perlite, in a Dixie cup set in another cup, sandwich baggie over the top and pinched between the two cups to create a mini green house, one corner cut off the bag for air circulation...fyi). A week or so later it had rooted, and after a month, its now a large vegging plant outdoors. (bet the guy who had me helping trim, had no idea I would end up with his cut just from being at his trim party_that's the ropes with re-vegg, tissue culture presents a whole new game when it comes to gathering new genetics...)
If anyone has further questions - ? Feel free...
Woodsmantoker~
t2kallday
Active Member
Thanks woods,very informative! Its great to have a real pro around to really ANSWER questions. Thats sweet what you did with the bud! Im going to try that with my mr nice cuz i dont want to lose the genes of this plant i have. I have a question when you say a pound per plant in a 4 by 4 with 1000 watts... do you mean a pound from one plant screened out to a 4 by 4? cuz theres no way i cud have pulled 9 pounds from this tent from one light? what are some super potent high yeilding scrog friendly strains??? Another question is how the hell are people pulling 1 gram per watt! im doing scrog with 1000 watts hps plus 3000 lumens in side lighting, perfect temp and humidity,light feeding schedule of advanced nutes,and u say ill get near or around 454 grams!!!!dam i thought i was a decent grower!!! gotta be hydro and co2.huh?!? Id like to know how i can yeild 1ooo grams for every 1000 watt light...is this possible? or are some of these peeps that claim to do it regurarly or even pull 1200 grams off a 600 watt?!? look up 420haze on this site that dude pulls WEIGHT? thanks peace
Nitegazer
Well-Known Member
Excellent treatment of the scrog shape issue, Woodsman. Thank you-- you just saved me lots of time. I may still experiment, but my expectations will be to learn, rather than increase yeild.
One thing that I would like to mention is that the 1g/watt estimate is a good rough guideline, but there are so many factors in play, including veg time, strain grown and square footage. I would be less impressed with a grower of Big Bud, having 8 weeks of veg time resulting in 1g/watt than a grower with Durban Poisen and 2 weeks of veg achieving .5 grams/watt.
The best measure of achievement for you is based on your limiting variable. If you have limited space, look to your grams per sq.ft., if you have limited lighting look to grams per watt. If you have limited funds, measure your sucess by grams per dollar invested.
One thing that I would like to mention is that the 1g/watt estimate is a good rough guideline, but there are so many factors in play, including veg time, strain grown and square footage. I would be less impressed with a grower of Big Bud, having 8 weeks of veg time resulting in 1g/watt than a grower with Durban Poisen and 2 weeks of veg achieving .5 grams/watt.
The best measure of achievement for you is based on your limiting variable. If you have limited space, look to your grams per sq.ft., if you have limited lighting look to grams per watt. If you have limited funds, measure your sucess by grams per dollar invested.
t2kallday
Active Member
"The best measure of achievement for you is based on your limiting variable." I like that! I think my limiting factors are genetics,hydroponic, and no sealed room! So yea i guess your right mabye if i had more funds i could achieve 1 gram per watt. And im not greedy i just think why waste energy if you can be yeilding more. Its not about how much bud i get im all about efficiency
t2kallday
Active Member
Quality is the number ONE factor of course! thanks bro!!! heres some nug porn...View attachment 2230441View attachment 2230442View attachment 2230443View attachment 2230444View attachment 2230445View attachment 2230446View attachment 2230447View attachment 2230448View attachment 2230449View attachment 2230450View attachment 2230451View attachment 2230452View attachment 2230453View attachment 2230454View attachment 2230455View attachment 2230456View attachment 2230457View attachment 2230458View attachment 2230459View attachment 2230460View attachment 2230462View attachment 2230463
t2kallday
Active Member
I just hope i get more than 1.8 ounces per plant!!!( I have 9 plants in a 5 by 5 area in 5 gallon pots!) that would be a pound!!! i was thinking more like three ounces per plant average!!! that was the whole point of doing scrog!!! if im not yeilding mor than lst and supercropping then whats the point of scrog!!! i think ill yeild more!but time will tell...
masterKush91
Member
Hey everybody there certainly are some great grows on this section! Definitely the best porn on all the site lol. But here I am on day 24 on WW and Im just wondering what you pros think of my grow.
Attachments
DaSmokinBear
Active Member
here's an update...day 43 12/12
Enjoy
Enjoy
ctwalrus
Active Member
i would like to know your opinion specifically on vertical scrogs..
and your opinion as to if i should top my plants whether they are in a vert or horizontal grow either way
Nitegazer
Well-Known Member
Read post 3348 (one page back from this one). Woodsman just wrote a comprehensive response to that query-- don't make him have to repeat himself.
flowamasta
Well-Known Member
ey scroggers 
can't sleep.....could you if you were me ???
day 48 now!!!!! gotta love scrogging. i couldn't think of any reason not to!!!
can't sleep.....could you if you were me ???day 48 now!!!!! gotta love scrogging. i couldn't think of any reason not to!!!
t2kallday
Active Member
day 51 i cant wait to chop!!! im going to give one full feed of iguana juice bloom some root innoculant and hygrozyme...looks like im getting a few deficiencies so ima give a full feed then final phase em, water with plain water one last time and get started on chopping some cheese( probly around 56 days)! I got alot of trim to do so ill chop a plant per day leaving mr and kushes to go till week 10. I want to let some of the cheese go a little longer as well, i want till 30 to 40 percent amber just to be sure there arent any clear trichs left and calyxes are SWOLL to the max.I also like the ful onn narcotic feel you get when you smoke some ripe nugs! the bag appeal also goes up the longer you wait...golf ball crystals and teardrop calyxes!. I dont have the funds to wait on all nine but some of the cheese are looking ready with a few amber trichs most the others are milky. im trying to get a loan so i dont have to chop so we will see what happens...heres some day 51 porn!!!
woodsmantoker
Well-Known Member
Yes, one plant, 1000watts at 4 x 4... around 1lb. Maybe more, maybe less. I would say your in that park... I have never been good at the guess game.
"super potent scrog friendly strains?" Cheeses do well and are great meds for many folks, the Kushes do well as you may be able to pick out, Hybrids on both sides can shine in scrog. White Strains dominated the scene for a while, you name it. Check out TGA's Vortex, Sub tests his at 18% THC I believe (dont quote me) but we just had a test come back with 21%THC and 4% CBD in another mix (not supersoil). I have ran that plant in scrog since 2007. The OG crosses have seem to shown good face in scrog and kick a few folks back a notch, Larry likes it. Diesels do wonders, there are too many to name.
"Another question is how the hell are people pulling 1 gram per watt?" - I think you should ask em.
"is this possible?" - Sure.
woodsmantoker
Well-Known Member
:') I don't know why I was thinking 4' for your screen but your more likely closer to your guess. See... leave it to me to guess... thats what ya get
Woodsmantoker~
woodsmantoker
Well-Known Member
masterKush91,
Welcome to ETS/SUPP,
I like em all!
How do you like scrog?
She might be a wee shy on Nitrogen, thats likely the yellowing from the bottem up (center out in scrog). Nice though pal! Thanks for the share! Keep us posted. I ran WW for many years, its a good scrogger.
Woodsmantoker~
Welcome to ETS/SUPP,
I like em all!
How do you like scrog? She might be a wee shy on Nitrogen, thats likely the yellowing from the bottem up (center out in scrog). Nice though pal! Thanks for the share! Keep us posted. I ran WW for many years, its a good scrogger.
Woodsmantoker~
woodsmantoker
Well-Known Member
I have 8 or so 1000 watt cool tubes sitting in closet... they are dusty, and in boxes.
~But as for topping, its a tool brother. You learn it and know how and when to use it. As with Fimm. They both do different things and shape things differently. Each strain responds differently and you would be best knowing your plant first, but who doesnt experiment right? IF your new, live to learn a while its a blast.
Woodsmantoker~