A US Teenager Who Grew Up In Denver Was Executed WITHOUT TRIAL With a DRONE

[Dr Kynes]

I think were all missing the point here. The real question we should be asking is: are we creating more terrorists than we are killing? If history is our teacher than we know that vengeance is a powerful motivator for violence.


BTW Dr. Kynes, Wikipedia is not a valid source for any argument. Middle school teaches you to properly cite sources better than that.

when i was in middle schoool there was no wikipedia, and if we had this argument, i would have to drag out hardcopy of magazines encyclopedias and newspaper clippings. wikipedia is a fine source for a background gloss, but certainly not definitive.

a wikipedia article can offer information to better tailor a google search, such as palestinian patty's real name, or the correct spelling of abdulrachman immam al awalakis bin shamseere bin williamson.

i use wikipedia regularly to get welsh spellings for creating passwords. it's not useless, just not the only tool.

 

[Dr Kynes]

So I guess you still mis-understood, I do not believe in Market Anarchy nor Libertarian exclusively, I was simply arguing as if I did believe in both and gave arguments for both sides, but it turns out I was arguing for Market Anarchy more because less people supported that. I made the exact same libertarian argument you made and you perceived that you were arguing with me when I argued the exact same thing as you. You weren't disagreeing with me at all and basically got all flustered over nothing so much that you did so again even after I added a posts clarifying my intent.

Also, sorry this is not a chat room and I make edits in a short windows. I am a computer programmer, I write programs and then fix the errors or make additions afterwards (I don't delete or change what I said completely, only make clarifications). No offense, just bad habbit, we are allowed a very short windows to edit our posts.

again i shall restate my position:

Anarcho-Fill-In-The-Blank-ism is NOT a political philosophy. it is marxism in a fancy new dress that changes colors so opponents cant identify it. it's still the same old bullshit, but proponents deliberatly avoid the key words like "proletariat" "Means of Production" "the Workers" "Revolution" "Bourgeois" or any of the other hackneyed phrases that Ye Olde-Tyme classical marxists spew forth with amazing regularity. Anarcho-Fill-In-The-Blank-ismcan never work for the same reason marxism doesnt work, because they are the same thing with different catch phrases.

playing devils advocate for marxist thought does not excuse one from responibility for propagating marxist thought.

rejecting the arguments for marxism does not mean the opponent is a capitalist running dog imperialist bourgeois crypto-fascist.

not embracing the thoughts and ideals of spooner does not mean i am the love-child of j edgar hoover and richard nixon. (that would be dick cheney, really think about it...)

 

[OGEvilgenius]

for your grand conspiracy theory (and it is just a theory mind you) to work, it would require the approval of FDR, the Department of War, the general staff on the ground in britain, and the strategic planners who were preparing the bombing missions, possibly even pilots themselves. your theory would also require high precision munitions (so they could deliberately miss and not accidentally hit the ford and bush owned factories) and very precise maps tho ensure that no us assets in germany were damaged.

RIIIIGHT

it would also require that british fliers also participate, during their night missions which were basically, "heres a shitload of bombs, fly northeast for a couple hours, pull this lever then come home"

it is true that prescott bush was deeply invested in germany, and maintained his ties with germany and nazi leaders during the war. after the war the us govt took his bank away, but we dont blame the sons for the misdeeds of the father.

al alawaki junior was also not held responsible for his father's terrist ties. he was killed in a strike that killed alquaeda in yemen's top pr man, it is interesting to note that he was on the watchlist due to his many close ties to other members of al quaeda besides hits daddy, and is reported by an unnamed yemeni security official as a possible recruit, and a possible militant. getting blown up with one of the top al quaeda bosses in yemen kinda makes the case for me, thats why i DONT GIVE A FUCK that the asshole is dead.

Yep, it would have. And it happened. It's well documented.

Here's a lengthy piece on the connections to the Nazi's some prominent American's had, but that got ignored by the government and instead covered up.

Pilots bomb the targets they are told to bomb. Orders come from the top. I'm sure the rationale for leaving such factories was that they were assets to be retaken (from within who knew who had true ownership and down the line on a need to know basis). Companies like Ford claim they did not benefit financially, etc. but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. The Bush family fortune benefited, no question. The US government assisted in getting Nazi's out of Germany post war and did their best to seize any potential assets in general. Operation Paperclip.

Nazi funds were funneled through the Vatican Bank and into accounts in countries in South America after the war with help from people like Prescott Bush. The Vatican has diplomatic immunity, so the money is clean once it goes through. Swiss banks helped as well. Similar deal at the time.

They gave Prescott his shares back after the war. No charges were ever filed. The entire government then assisted in aiding Nazi's who were of questionable character.

John Loftus also has a recently released book on the subject. He has given some interesting interviews about it, he is hardly a gigantic conspiracy theorist. He is even apologetic for some really questionable tactics.

Pilots were given targets to bomb. It wasn't a precision thing, but it wasn't completely random either, which you seem to imply. Mistakes were indeed made.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

 

[Dr Kynes]

Yep, it would have. And it happened. It's well documented.

Here's a lengthy piece on the connections to the Nazi's some prominent American's had, but that got ignored by the government and instead covered up.

Pilots bomb the targets they are told to bomb. Orders come from the top. I'm sure the rationale for leaving such factories was that they were assets to be retaken (from within who knew who had true ownership and down the line on a need to know basis). Companies like Ford claim they did not benefit financially, etc. but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. The Bush family fortune benefited, no question. The US government assisted in getting Nazi's out of Germany post war and did their best to seize any potential assets in general. Operation Paperclip.

Nazi funds were funneled through the Vatican Bank and into accounts in countries in South America after the war with help from people like Prescott Bush. The Vatican has diplomatic immunity, so the money is clean once it goes through. Swiss banks helped as well. Similar deal at the time.

They gave Prescott his shares back after the war. No charges were ever filed. The entire government then assisted in aiding Nazi's who were of questionable character.

John Loftus also has a recently released book on the subject. He has given some interesting interviews about it, he is hardly a gigantic conspiracy theorist. He is even apologetic for some really questionable tactics.

Pilots were given targets to bomb. It wasn't a precision thing, but it wasn't completely random either, which you seem to imply. Mistakes were indeed made.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

the cited article details the accepted links between prescott bush and german financial backers of the nazi regime. this is not new. even our own federal reserve had holdings and dealings with the rothschilds and warburgs (who also financed both sides) this is not new. the rothchilds (the worlds oldest multinational bank) financed both britain and napolean in the peninsualr war, they also financed the revolution and the crown during the french revolution, and both napolean and the republican french during napolean's initial rise to power, and the allies and the germans during ww1. bankers finance anybody who will take a loan and pay interest. thats not news.

it does NOT however establish the main thrust of your assertion, that there was a wide ranging conspiracy to protect nazi weapon factories and installations in germany during the war, nor that the capability to avoid damaging those facilities even existed at the time.

the brits did blind bomb drops at night and were happy to get a few hits around a target, much less destroy a major factory. the US had a stated policy to avoid civilian casualties, and thus did not bomb factories inside urban areas, untill the Lemay Treatment took over, then they bombed anything that thye could reach, even industrial cities like dresden. they did NOT avoid damage to factories railways or any such structure except bridges, and those were left intact to facilitate the invasion of france and germany.

the conspiracy theory is hot, sexy and tantalizing but it does not bear up to scrutiny. the long range bombers of the US and the fairly accurate (for the time, but now would be considered clumsy crude and useless) bomb targeting devices of the US forced germany to relocate as much of their critical industry as they could deeper into germany, and even into their newly captured lebensraum in czechoslovakia and poland (which is part of the reason czechoslovakia and poland became the arsenals of the soviet union)

quick note, the US worm gear bomb target became the basis for modern automobile steering boxes in the late 40's and are still in use today. the yreally werent that special despite being top secret (they had explosive charges to ensure their destruction in case of a shootdown.)

 

[ChesusRice]

This is completely fabricated story again link source. Also how exactly does a 16 year old kid have a choice in the matter?

You copied and pasted a story verbatim that was copied and pasted thousands of times all over the internet

https://www.google.com/search?q=A+US+Teenager+Who+Grew+Up+In+Denver+Was+Executed+WITHOUT+TRIAL+With+a+DRONE&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADSA_enUS422

The Kid in question is al awlakis son
and this was a senseless killing
Because all Al Awlaki had to to was turn himself in
But he didnt
You take up arms against my country
You risk dying in your country
Regardless of birthplace

 

[ChesusRice]

Abdulrahman al-AulaqiAnwar Al-Aulaqi and Egyptian-born Gihan Mohsen Baker had an American son, born on September 13, 1995, in Denver, named Abdulrahman Anwar Al-Aulaqi".[SUP][242][/SUP] Abdul-Rahman al-Aulaqi was killed at the age of 16 in an American drone strike on Friday, October 14, 2011, in Yemen, along with alleged al-Qaeda members.[SUP][243][/SUP] Nine other people were killed in the same CIA-led attack. Among the dead was a 17-year-old cousin of Abdulrahman.[SUP][244][/SUP] Family members have said that he was on his way to a barbecue. Five Facebook pages have been set up to condemn the killing as a human rights violation

 

[ctwalrus]

lets cover old ground shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs

any ship sailing in the south mediterranean or the arabian gulf was subject to attack, and enslavement. plus they would take their show on the road.

Ireland was subject to a similar attack. In June 1631 Murat Reis, with corsairs from Algiers and armed troops of the Ottoman Empire, stormed ashore at the little harbor village of Baltimore, County Cork. They captured almost all the villagers and took them away to a life of slavery in North Africa.[SUP][11][/SUP] The prisoners were destined for a variety of fates — some lived out their days chained to the oars as galley slaves, while others would spend long years in the scented seclusion of the harem or within the walls of the sultan's palace. Only two of them ever saw Ireland again.[

were these paddies offending islam too?

While the United States managed to secure peace treaties, these obliged it to pay tribute for protection from attack. Payments in ransom and tribute to the Barbary states amounted to 20% of United States government annual expenditures in 1800.[SUP][20][/SUP] The First Barbary War in 1801 and the Second Barbary War in 1815 led to more favorable peace terms ending the payment of tribute. However, Algiers broke the 1805 peace treaty after only two years, and subsequently refused to implement the 1815 treaty until compelled to do so by Britain in 1816

the line in the marine corps hymn To the shores of tripoli" refers specifically to a rescue operation conducted under president thomas jefferson to liberat us passengers and crew held in bondage as slaves by the good mohammedans of algeria and the barbary pirates who served at the sultans pleasure.

were passing ships under a flag that held treaties and jizya type payments to the sultan offending islam too?

shit. learn some history. dar al islam has been at war with every person nation and religion that is not under their flag since mohammed stopped raiding camel caravans and started his new religion.

in more recent history,
suadi arabia and kuwait asked for help curtailing the madness of saddam (who in turn had asked for our help in curtailing the madness of khomenni whatcha gonna do? gotta ride the least shitty horse)

osma bin laden also had us help in curtailing the madness of the soviets.

all these foreign interventions failed to serve US interests, and thus were foolish in hindsight. declaring bin laden (former US asset) to be in the right for his nuttjob declaration of war over the US defending a treaty-sworn ally (kuwait and saudi arabia) against an aggressor is just plain stupid.

i dont care what you think of the US policy, you aint american, you dont get a vote. i also dont care if you oppose america helping it's allies, thats your problem, not mine.

i also dont care if you think the US policies in defense of their allies offends your religion. your religion regularly offends mine, through word and deed, not through some dimly related cunard about foreigners on sacred arabian soil.

when you get off your high horse maybe youll realize that demanding compliance in thought and action is what youre religion is all about, and NOT what america is about.

this



this is fucking ignorant
same logic.. lets hate on christians for the crusades...
fact is we threw the first stone.

on the actual topic at hand, who cares if he was a casualty or a target.. he got killed, without due process and was an american citizen....................
this isnt murder how?

 

[ChesusRice]

this



this is fucking ignorant
same logic.. lets hate on christians for the crusades...
fact is we threw the first stone.

on the actual topic at hand, who cares if he was a casualty or a target.. he got killed, without due process and was an american citizen....................
this isnt murder how?

He and his father chose not to go thru Due Process of the law
They instead chose to attack us from overseas

Osama bin Laden never got due process of the law either
He did get the receiving end of a bullet though

 

[ChesusRice]

According to his relatives, Abdulrahman left the family home in the Sana'a area on Sept. 15 in search of his fugitive father who was hiding out with his tribe, the Awalak, in the remote, rugged southern province of Shabwa. Days after the teenager began his quest, however, his father was killed in a U.S. drone strike. Then, just two weeks later, the Yemeni government claimed another air strike killed a senior al-Qaeda militant. Abdulrahman, his teenage cousin and six others died in the attack as well. A U.S. official said the young man "was in the wrong place at the wrong time," and that the U.S. was trying to kill a legitimate terrorist — al-Qaeda leader Ibrahim al-Banna, who also died — in the strike that apparently killed the American teenager.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2097899,00.html#ixzz20OsSgyU9

 

[ctwalrus]

He and his father chose not to go thru Due Process of the law
They instead chose to attack us from overseas

Osama bin Laden never got due process of the law either
He did get the receiving end of a bullet though

god this is dumb as shit too

they were on their way to a fucking barbeque!!
that kid never attacked us!

cheesus christ some people are stupid

 

[ChesusRice]

god this is dumb as shit too

they were on their way to a fucking barbeque!!
that kid never attacked us!

cheesus christ some people are stupid

According to his relatives, Abdulrahman left the family home in the Sana'a area on Sept. 15 in search of his fugitive father who was hiding out with his tribe, the Awalak, in the remote, rugged southern province of Shabwa. Days after the teenager began his quest, however, his father was killed in a U.S. drone strike. Then, just two weeks later, the Yemeni government claimed another air strike killed a senior al-Qaeda militant. Abdulrahman, his teenage cousin and six others died in the attack as well.

Very Poor choice of traveling companions
That and we brought the barbeque to him

 

[ctwalrus]

ok.... so american citezen in wrong place, wrong time.. got killed by another citezen mistakenly...
soooo... murder or manslaughter?

 

[ChesusRice]

ok.... so american citezen in wrong place, wrong time.. got killed by another citezen mistakenly...
soooo... murder or manslaughter?

Neither
He was voluntarily with people he knew to be targets
Because he was a terrorist

You take up arms against my country
Your place of birth is irrelevant

Anwar al Awlaki's son hoped 'to attain martyrdom as my father attained it'

By Bill RoggioDecember 8, 2011

Anwar al Awlaki's son said he hoped "to attain martyrdom as my father attained it" just hours before he was killed in a US Predator airstrike in Yemen in mid-October, according to a journalist who sympathizes with al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.




Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2011/12/anwar_al_awlakis_son.php#ixzz20Ov7INlY

 

[Canna Sylvan]

There's this program which profiles Disneyland rides. It will streamline your day, based on your schedule the order for rides. It's very accurate. You don't think the government can't profile people whose only joys are taking out a carpet exercise mat, call it prayer, and fuck Ali squirt squirt the camel?

I'm an atheist, so I think all religion is bullshit. So it's not like I have a hard on for islam. I don't have a pity complex for it either.

My problem is killing a stupid kid. They knew when these two could be together. The first experiment if an adult could get killed was a success. The only proplem is would we care if a kid dies. If people do care, it was not like we got the kid on purpose, otherwise act like we don't even take shit from children! The next test will be if a kid is the target. Who would have thought America would be just as stupid as North Koreans who believe pine cones magically turn into grenades.

If all the government needs to do to be justified in killing you is place a throwrug next to your corpse, that really scares me.

But I guess I should be happy it's not like China. All they need to do is label you a student and no one complains when tanks run you over.

 

[Dr Kynes]

this



this is fucking ignorant
same logic.. lets hate on christians for the crusades...
fact is we threw the first stone.

on the actual topic at hand, who cares if he was a casualty or a target.. he got killed, without due process and was an american citizen....................
this isnt murder how?

read the koran. youll surely change your tune. pay special attention to the areas involving Dar Al Islam, Jihad and Christians and Jews. (plus athiests, polytheists, monoteists who dont worship the fictional character abraham etc..)

the only way for islam to be right is if EVERYBODY ELSE IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG!jihad is a state of constant war between Dar Al Islam and the unbelievers, and will only end when alllah is triumphant and all unbelievers are converted enslaved or dead.

it's not my book, i didnt write it. if you think im lying, read it yourself.

 

[Dr Kynes]

There's this program which profiles Disneyland rides. It will streamline your day, based on your schedule the order for rides. It's very accurate. You don't think the government can't profile people whose only joys are taking out a carpet exercise mat, call it prayer, and fuck Ali squirt squirt the camel?

I'm an atheist, so I think all religion is bullshit. So it's not like I have a hard on for islam. I don't have a pity complex for it either.

My problem is killing a stupid kid. They knew when these two could be together. The first experiment if an adult could get killed was a success. The only proplem is would we care if a kid dies. If people do care, it was not like we got the kid on purpose, otherwise act like we don't even take shit from children! The next test will be if a kid is the target. Who would have thought America would be just as stupid as North Koreans who believe pine cones magically turn into grenades.

If all the government needs to do to be justified in killing you is place a throwrug next to your corpse, that really scares me.

But I guess I should be happy it's not like China. All they need to do is label you a student and no one complains when tanks run you over.

heres the problem though. the "kid" was the son of a major player in al quaeda, he made statements about "seeking martyrdom" before he took offf for the badlands of yemen, which is territory held by militant forces allied with alquaeda affiliates like alquaeda in yemen. the "kid" was reported by yemeni security officials to be a possible "recruit" and a likely militant. the "kid" died in a missile strike that successfully targeted alquaeda in yemen's top mouthpiece and terrorist booster al banni.

"innocent bystander" starts to look pretty riddiculous , no matter how many post-mortem facebook friends he racks up.

if i join the mafia, and get a cap busted in my dome during a shootout with my mafia don, does that mean i get to be an "innocent bystander" too?

 

[Dr Kynes]

ok.... so american citezen in wrong place, wrong time.. got killed by another citezen mistakenly...
soooo... murder or manslaughter?

neither.

a german american youth joins the Bund (german american association which was a propaganda tool for the nazis) he decides to go to germany when WW2 starts. while in germany he gets killed by an american bomb strike on a nazi staff car. killed in the car with him is Josef Goebbels.

innocent victim or collaborator with the nazis, and thus a traitor to the USA? you be the judge.

 

[billybob420]

neither.

a german american youth joins the Bund (german american association which was a propaganda tool for the nazis) he decides to go to germany when WW2 starts. while in germany he gets killed by an american bomb strike on a nazi staff car. killed in the car with him is Josef Goebbels.

innocent victim or collaborator with the nazis, and thus a traitor to the USA? you be the judge.

hypothetical

 

[Dr Kynes]

hypothetical

of course it's hypothetical. but it is correct, proportional and even less damnig a question that al awalaki junior.

al quaeda has declared war on the US, as has alquaeda in yemen. al banni, who was killed in the car with junior was the chief propaganda minister for alquaeda in yemen, just as goebbels was for germany.

the question stands.

 

[ChesusRice]

of course it's hypothetical. but it is correct, proportional and even less damnig a question that al awalaki junior.

al quaeda has declared war on the US, as has alquaeda in yemen. al banni, who was killed in the car with junior was the chief propaganda minister for alquaeda in yemen, just as goebbels was for germany.

the question stands.

Spot on
lie with dogs......
He wanted martydom he got it