DIY Modular LED-Light
- Thread starter guod
- Start date
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well..
Please allow me to make you a proposal...
If you find the time & money needed..
Instead of the blue led ,you can use one Cool White...
Take off all the hyper-reds(650-680).....Trust me on that ...
Replace them with Warm Whites.
Keep the neutral ones and the reds (630)...
If you have the curiosity ,how it will work,you should give it a try...
Something tells me ,that you'll be amazed from the outcome....
guod
Well-Known Member
i use here a 465nm blue Led, there is no white Led with a Peak in this range.(most of them stay around 450nm)
but, let's see what happens...
1. Equal power for both Designs. blue & white Leds have the same Vf
2. simulation of both Spectrums
as you see my Design gives a wider Range and higher Outputlevel on equal power usage.
i try that long before....
no neutral ones in my panel...Trust me on that ...
an element of some of my older Lights
1x cw(8000K) & 2x ww(3300K) 10W Emitters from HueyJann. passiv cooled. two years ago
two of them stays the rest of her life over my workbench!
1x8000K/10W & 8xred(630nm)/3W. movable modules; dimmable Drivers; 40W max.
a nice tool for starting seeds and clones.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Oh yes,my mistake...
They are cools...
(You have to excuse me....Last night I was pretty stoned...)
Now...
1) I don't understand why you want so powerful and so broad range in blue...
Blue over 15-20% of total umoles/sec ,really inhibits photosynthesis...
It slows down overall metabolism of plants...
Plus,that over 455 nm(ChB) ,it is just having mainly photomorphogenic (cryptochromes) & phototropic role....
The only good thing,of much blue,is the'oxidative' action it has...
That means more trichomes...(Not necessarily higher concetration of cannabinoids..)
2) You use powerful leds...From my point of view that's a no-no...
For many reasons (not efficient ,not spatially arranged,not good spectral homogeneity ,difficult to keep cool,ect)
3) Using the Ledengin Spectral tool ( for every of my white ,a put a value of 75% & 50% for every red) my 22 Watt panels ,emit at a power range of 46-47 μmole/sec,each.
That's close to yours with less than half power....
Maybe I'm doing a mistake somewhere....
Please give me some info ,how to correct my possible mistake....
(But I'm based on the average photometric values to calculate ..)
CW = 110 lm at 350mA Watt (Actually my drivers current is at 320mA +/- 5% )
NW= 100 lm @350mA
WW= 80 lm @ 350mA
630 red = 45 lm @ 350mA
-All these are conservative values,as the led maker claims that the cool/neutrals emit 130-140 lm @350mA ,warms at 100-120 lm & reds at 60lm..But with no binning,I prefer to set the minimum values.....-
About your 'lady'....
Too much streching...Way too much....
And it is not because of the angle of emitted light...
Few leaves too..
And airy buds...(But frosty,cause of the blue)....
You should consider taking off the 660s...
Without approx the same power ( 1.2:1/660:730) of far red ,they create only problems..
Too much Pfr....12 hour of darkness ,aren't enough to reverse it (all of it ) to "ground state" of Pr or break it down...
The result is retarded and diminished flower production....
Not to mention ,that she gets the 'message' of being under a desert 'sun'...
That means weird adaptations....(few leaves,streching,ect..)
In electronics you seem to be really good...
Maybe I'm a fool....
But I'm fairly good in plant biology....
Maybe you should have a look at the fool's,wrecked plant...
Flowering under awkward ,cheap,crappy leds...
Edit: If I have calculated correctly ,you are (today)at day 44 (+/- 1 day ) of flowering .....
You are few days ahead of me....
And I have only 4 days with 66 Watts ..Before that,I was flowering with 44 Watts ....
Pics ?
I don't mean any comparison...
(different strains,enviro,nutes,ect...)
I just wanna see how she does ,under your spectrum...
Anyway ...
I still insist ,on my proposal...
Replace the cools with neutrals...
The 660s with warms ...
Keep the 630s..
Toss the blue one..Replace it with one cool...
Take out the lenses...
Use no more than 3 Watt leds,in power...
They are cools...
(You have to excuse me....Last night I was pretty stoned...)
Now...
1) I don't understand why you want so powerful and so broad range in blue...
Blue over 15-20% of total umoles/sec ,really inhibits photosynthesis...
It slows down overall metabolism of plants...
Plus,that over 455 nm(ChB) ,it is just having mainly photomorphogenic (cryptochromes) & phototropic role....
The only good thing,of much blue,is the'oxidative' action it has...
That means more trichomes...(Not necessarily higher concetration of cannabinoids..)
2) You use powerful leds...From my point of view that's a no-no...
For many reasons (not efficient ,not spatially arranged,not good spectral homogeneity ,difficult to keep cool,ect)
3) Using the Ledengin Spectral tool ( for every of my white ,a put a value of 75% & 50% for every red) my 22 Watt panels ,emit at a power range of 46-47 μmole/sec,each.
That's close to yours with less than half power....
Maybe I'm doing a mistake somewhere....
Please give me some info ,how to correct my possible mistake....
(But I'm based on the average photometric values to calculate ..)
CW = 110 lm at 350mA Watt (Actually my drivers current is at 320mA +/- 5% )
NW= 100 lm @350mA
WW= 80 lm @ 350mA
630 red = 45 lm @ 350mA
-All these are conservative values,as the led maker claims that the cool/neutrals emit 130-140 lm @350mA ,warms at 100-120 lm & reds at 60lm..But with no binning,I prefer to set the minimum values.....-
About your 'lady'....
Too much streching...Way too much....
And it is not because of the angle of emitted light...
Few leaves too..
And airy buds...(But frosty,cause of the blue)....
You should consider taking off the 660s...
Without approx the same power ( 1.2:1/660:730) of far red ,they create only problems..
Too much Pfr....12 hour of darkness ,aren't enough to reverse it (all of it ) to "ground state" of Pr or break it down...
The result is retarded and diminished flower production....
Not to mention ,that she gets the 'message' of being under a desert 'sun'...
That means weird adaptations....(few leaves,streching,ect..)
In electronics you seem to be really good...
Maybe I'm a fool....
But I'm fairly good in plant biology....
Maybe you should have a look at the fool's,wrecked plant...
Flowering under awkward ,cheap,crappy leds...
Edit: If I have calculated correctly ,you are (today)at day 44 (+/- 1 day ) of flowering .....
You are few days ahead of me....
And I have only 4 days with 66 Watts ..Before that,I was flowering with 44 Watts ....
Pics ?
I don't mean any comparison...
(different strains,enviro,nutes,ect...)
I just wanna see how she does ,under your spectrum...
Anyway ...
I still insist ,on my proposal...
Replace the cools with neutrals...
The 660s with warms ...
Keep the 630s..
Toss the blue one..Replace it with one cool...
Take out the lenses...
Use no more than 3 Watt leds,in power...
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Stardustsailor
You make sense to me, but for most people here, they would like to see your grow results
I am thinking all CREE NWs as the new Cree seems to have all the spectrums mmj loves nicely covered. Put the fixture on a dimmer and one light fits all?
But I have not yet put my $$$ where my mind is
What do you think of this ratio ~ 5-10% CW/WW + 80-90% NWs?
You make sense to me, but for most people here, they would like to see your grow results
I am thinking all CREE NWs as the new Cree seems to have all the spectrums mmj loves nicely covered. Put the fixture on a dimmer and one light fits all?
But I have not yet put my $$$ where my mind is
What do you think of this ratio ~ 5-10% CW/WW + 80-90% NWs?
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
I've had some pretty good results with 4260k with additional LEDs covering 620-670nm, 60% white, 40% red/deep red ratio. I've also had good results with 6500k, 620-670nm, 720-740nm. 6500k being 40%, 53% red and deep red, and 7% farred.
I've still yet to try any all white panels in flowering, just the 4260k for a few weeks of veg, which went quite well, but does better with a little extra red and deep red, but not too much extra.
I've still yet to try any all white panels in flowering, just the 4260k for a few weeks of veg, which went quite well, but does better with a little extra red and deep red, but not too much extra.
Jahulath
Member
Guod, prototypes! I don't suppose you have anything else on that work bench just sitting there waiting to help me out? It is awesome to see those 10 watters sitting there. Please would you be so kind as to answer a couple of questions for me?
How hot did the heat sink get for your passive 30W?
What did you find the problems where with it and would you consider using 10W LED in the future? (they don't appear in your latest design, I wasn't sure if there is a fatal flaw I don't know about yet)
Are the dials on your second prototype colored to act on the blues and reds independently and if so did you find this helpful or was it just for research?
If you are still using the second one for veg, does it also run hot?
I would ask if you did it again then how would you change it but the answer is right in front of my face so I'm pleading for "why" instead because this will help me a LOT.
Thank you for sharing these pics!
Peace bro.
How hot did the heat sink get for your passive 30W?
What did you find the problems where with it and would you consider using 10W LED in the future? (they don't appear in your latest design, I wasn't sure if there is a fatal flaw I don't know about yet)
Are the dials on your second prototype colored to act on the blues and reds independently and if so did you find this helpful or was it just for research?
If you are still using the second one for veg, does it also run hot?
I would ask if you did it again then how would you change it but the answer is right in front of my face so I'm pleading for "why" instead because this will help me a LOT.
Thank you for sharing these pics!
Peace bro.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Dear PetFlora,
First of all ,we have to ask for an apology from guod,in case we 'hi-jacking' his thread...
Yes...
Grow results ,are the proofs...
(I think you have seen my thread ....Astir Grow Led Panel Project ..)
We have to wait for another 4-5 weeks...
(Although I consider my current micro-grow a total failure...
I messed up with the non-ionic surfactant I use and probably ,the tap water(from my habitat) is
also a...serial plant-killer...)
Anyway...
Neutral whites have plenty of blue at 440-445 nm...(100% of relative power)
Also they have a relative power over 60% ,from 520-525 nm up to 640-645 nm...
With a 'mild' & 'flat' peak close to 580 nm,at approx 85% of relative power....
They lack in power over 650 nm...The relative power curve drops sharply over 655 nm..
From approx 50% Rel.Pow. to 20 % R.P a bit over 700 nm...
Well...Sure you can grow a wide range of higher plants with just only Neutrals...
But....
Do not expect really 'heavy' yields ..At least regarding mj...
(Perfect,though, for cucumbers,carrots and some 'greens' like cabbage & celery.)
If you want yields in flowers ,like on wild flowering weeds(=mj )..
You have to add to the spectrum a bit more power,from 610 nm up to 730-740 nm ...
( Like temperate/sub-tropical ,summer sunlight ..)
That means...Warm Whites..
Ask yourshelf...
If you had ,another kind of artificial lights...
CFLs or VHO FLs or MH+HPS+LPS.....
In what ratio ,you would have use them ,for efficient flowering ?
Approx 2: 1 (Power Φ = Warm : cold/cool )...
The same goes with leds...
For sure Neutrals are the 'middle' way...
But they will,probably give you 'mediocre' yields..
Look this graph of spectral powers ( Cree leds ) ..
Warm whites ,are poor in blue...But...
They cover ,a really, wide wl range in amber/orange/red and far-red...
So ,for heavy flowering....Power Φ(light flux)= 2:1 (warm : cool)
Where 'warm' is mainly warm whites with a bit of red 630...( approx. 3 :1 )
Whereas 'cool' is mainly neutral with cold whites .. ( ? : ? )
( this ratio is still under research.But for sure neutral is the bigger part..)
Unfortunately,the exact spectra that makes mj thrive,is yet to be discovered...
And I'm not referring to photosynthesis,only...
Some experiments,we do 'formally' -in university-with nettle (Urticaceae spp.) ,may shed light on that mystery ...
After all ,nettle is a very close relative to mj...
(Also,they share almost exact ,nutrient needs and natural habitats...)
Hope I helped a bit...
First of all ,we have to ask for an apology from guod,in case we 'hi-jacking' his thread...
Yes...
Grow results ,are the proofs...
(I think you have seen my thread ....Astir Grow Led Panel Project ..)
We have to wait for another 4-5 weeks...
(Although I consider my current micro-grow a total failure...
I messed up with the non-ionic surfactant I use and probably ,the tap water(from my habitat) is
also a...serial plant-killer...)
Anyway...
Neutral whites have plenty of blue at 440-445 nm...(100% of relative power)
Also they have a relative power over 60% ,from 520-525 nm up to 640-645 nm...
With a 'mild' & 'flat' peak close to 580 nm,at approx 85% of relative power....
They lack in power over 650 nm...The relative power curve drops sharply over 655 nm..
From approx 50% Rel.Pow. to 20 % R.P a bit over 700 nm...
Well...Sure you can grow a wide range of higher plants with just only Neutrals...
But....
Do not expect really 'heavy' yields ..At least regarding mj...
(Perfect,though, for cucumbers,carrots and some 'greens' like cabbage & celery.)
If you want yields in flowers ,like on wild flowering weeds(=mj )..
You have to add to the spectrum a bit more power,from 610 nm up to 730-740 nm ...
( Like temperate/sub-tropical ,summer sunlight ..)
That means...Warm Whites..
Ask yourshelf...
If you had ,another kind of artificial lights...
CFLs or VHO FLs or MH+HPS+LPS.....
In what ratio ,you would have use them ,for efficient flowering ?
Approx 2: 1 (Power Φ = Warm : cold/cool )...
The same goes with leds...
For sure Neutrals are the 'middle' way...
But they will,probably give you 'mediocre' yields..
Look this graph of spectral powers ( Cree leds ) ..
Warm whites ,are poor in blue...But...
They cover ,a really, wide wl range in amber/orange/red and far-red...
So ,for heavy flowering....Power Φ(light flux)= 2:1 (warm : cool)
Where 'warm' is mainly warm whites with a bit of red 630...( approx. 3 :1 )
Whereas 'cool' is mainly neutral with cold whites .. ( ? : ? )
( this ratio is still under research.But for sure neutral is the bigger part..)
Unfortunately,the exact spectra that makes mj thrive,is yet to be discovered...
And I'm not referring to photosynthesis,only...
Some experiments,we do 'formally' -in university-with nettle (Urticaceae spp.) ,may shed light on that mystery ...
After all ,nettle is a very close relative to mj...
(Also,they share almost exact ,nutrient needs and natural habitats...)
Hope I helped a bit...
guod
Well-Known Member
showtime.
some airy Buds and a real Lady
"we are all fools with different tools"
60° Lenses for this tall (130cm) Plant gives a lot of Stardust, Sailor
and the blue light does the rest.
half way down
-----------------------------
some weeks ago
the Lady with some chillis
aera 70x50
and now
starting with 30W..... last 4 weeks under 60W
root bounded, organic, autoflower(cross betwenn ED.R x Automazar)
some airy Buds and a real Lady
"we are all fools with different tools"
60° Lenses for this tall (130cm) Plant gives a lot of Stardust, Sailor
and the blue light does the rest.
half way down
-----------------------------
some weeks ago
the Lady with some chillis
aera 70x50
and now
starting with 30W..... last 4 weeks under 60W
root bounded, organic, autoflower(cross betwenn ED.R x Automazar)
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
vBulletin Message
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
(Can't see 'em....
...Aren't they jpegies ?
I expect to see something reeeeeaaally gooood....
Although ,still I insist for the 660s'....)
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
(Can't see 'em....
...Aren't they jpegies ? I expect to see something reeeeeaaally gooood....
Although ,still I insist for the 660s'....)
Jahulath
Member
DUDE that bush looks like it's plastic it's so fucking healthy - good show sir good show!
and always be respectful 
to the OP.
On that note, Guod sorry for kinda flooding your thread.
Also Guod, please sir I'd love your opinion on the two prototypes you produced, I really want your opinion of the 10w LED that you used as I just made my first test of the ones I bought and they are kinda warm but the real thing is going to be dealing with an amp a piece at anything like a reasonable input voltage for an 8 or 9 volt chip.
LOL I only just read that back. I think that may be a mis-translation, we should offer an apology to Guod or alternatively ask his forgiveness dude
and always be respectful to the OP.On that note, Guod sorry for kinda flooding your thread.
Also Guod, please sir I'd love your opinion on the two prototypes you produced, I really want your opinion of the 10w LED that you used as I just made my first test of the ones I bought and they are kinda warm but the real thing is going to be dealing with an amp a piece at anything like a reasonable input voltage for an 8 or 9 volt chip.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
@ Jahulath...Yes ,maybe you're right.....
But how you show respect is very irrelevant 'idea' or-further more- 'action'.....
Especially in fora ,generally...
Anyway...
@Guod,I'm sorry..
Never ment to upset you or make you angry...
@Guod...
I never liked not to be honest,bro...
I like the second/third most...
Super-wow structure....
Notice ,though,how dark are the leaves...
That is not too much Nitrogen...(they are super healthy..)
That's a lot of ChA...And mj ,she is not supposed to maximize PS ,with ChA..
But ,congrats...Super healthy ,compact plant....
I don't know for the first...
Looks a lot a sativa pheno ..
Either she is a sativa geno...
Or
Either she was 'pushed' to "show"/express a sativa pheno...
Dunno...
Either case ,she is frosty...
(Yummy grade frosty,I should say....)
And she flowers good enough..
Which week is she?
(Com'on ..I'm too stoned to calculate,right now...)
But how you show respect is very irrelevant 'idea' or-further more- 'action'.....
Especially in fora ,generally...
Anyway...
@Guod,I'm sorry..
Never ment to upset you or make you angry...
@Guod...
I never liked not to be honest,bro...
I like the second/third most...
Super-wow structure....
Notice ,though,how dark are the leaves...
That is not too much Nitrogen...(they are super healthy..)
That's a lot of ChA...And mj ,she is not supposed to maximize PS ,with ChA..
But ,congrats...Super healthy ,compact plant....
I don't know for the first...
Looks a lot a sativa pheno ..
Either she is a sativa geno...
Or
Either she was 'pushed' to "show"/express a sativa pheno...
Dunno...
Either case ,she is frosty...
(Yummy grade frosty,I should say....)
And she flowers good enough..
Which week is she?
(Com'on ..I'm too stoned to calculate,right now...)
guod
Well-Known Member
the idea here is to cover the range between 470nm - 510nm a bit more
from (http://plantphys.info)13% will be not too much i think, see the spectra in my first post.
and keep in Mind the greater spread of the blue Led. (170°/ 110° or 110°/ 60°)
not efficient,
saves Money, (less diodes), voltage of the driver gets to high or more drivers needed
25% loss at half the Price for the Leds. and if there is need for a second Driver.....
You can use the following downloadable spreadsheet to play with the percentages to see if anything else would work better. 100% means basically one die at 700mA....
this spreadsheet based on real data from Ledengin, 50% is 350mA regardless of the color
and take the µmol with a grain of salt for the first time.
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well...Fair enough...
Though,for the Ledengin I don't get something....
In the spreadsheet red at 700mA has a photometric power of 88 lm...(radiometric 0.45 Watt )
My asian at 350mA ,range from 45 to 60 ..Ok, thats 50% approx....
(I did put a value of 50%)
The warm Whites at 700mA (according always to the spreadsheet ) has a photometric power of 106.5 lm...
(radiometric 0.35 Watt )..
My at 350mA have an photometric power ranging from 80 to 120 lm/watt ..
I put the lowest value of 80.... 80/106 * 100= 75% ...
Can,you please explain to me why I should put a value of 50% ,when that's not true ?
I think the graph shows Relative power / nm ..
Not Absolute...
But even if was absolute still would have been appox the same....
Same with Cool Whites ..
@ 700mA = 146 lm
@ 350 mA asian 120-130 (according to the manufacturer...)
I say 110 lm ....110/146 *100= 75% ....
Oh...
What about Neutrals ?
@700mA =156 lm...
@ 350mA asian 130-140 lm (according to the manufacturer...)
I say 110 lm ... 110/156 *100=70%....
I know simple maths,a bit more physics,a bit more chemistry ..
(And a whole lot more in biology....)
Based on my knowledge..
There is no reason to put a value of 50%...
Already I'm pretty conservative in my input values...
Plus that quality leds have more green in them...
So they always have more lm..
As the human eye is sensitive to green 555 nm ...
And white leds are made ,mainly for human vision...
Specially,the quality ones....
So ....
My 22 Watt panel has still a PPF value, around 46-50 range...
Depending on the different spectra I've tried....
( being a bit conservative,also...... )
...
Based,always,to Ledengin Tool....
"..take the µmol with a grain of salt for the first time..."
Dunno what you mean,really....
Are you still all,on board ?
Joint time ,maybe ?
Edit:
Come to think about it....
Don't you think that the values for the 700mA ,are a bit low ?
I thought that-nowdays-they emit at 220-240 lm range ...
Though,for the Ledengin I don't get something....
In the spreadsheet red at 700mA has a photometric power of 88 lm...(radiometric 0.45 Watt )
My asian at 350mA ,range from 45 to 60 ..Ok, thats 50% approx....
(I did put a value of 50%)
The warm Whites at 700mA (according always to the spreadsheet ) has a photometric power of 106.5 lm...
(radiometric 0.35 Watt )..
My at 350mA have an photometric power ranging from 80 to 120 lm/watt ..
I put the lowest value of 80.... 80/106 * 100= 75% ...
Can,you please explain to me why I should put a value of 50% ,when that's not true ?
I think the graph shows Relative power / nm ..
Not Absolute...
But even if was absolute still would have been appox the same....
Same with Cool Whites ..
@ 700mA = 146 lm
@ 350 mA asian 120-130 (according to the manufacturer...)
I say 110 lm ....110/146 *100= 75% ....
Oh...
What about Neutrals ?
@700mA =156 lm...
@ 350mA asian 130-140 lm (according to the manufacturer...)
I say 110 lm ... 110/156 *100=70%....
I know simple maths,a bit more physics,a bit more chemistry ..
(And a whole lot more in biology....)
Based on my knowledge..
There is no reason to put a value of 50%...
Already I'm pretty conservative in my input values...
Plus that quality leds have more green in them...
So they always have more lm..
As the human eye is sensitive to green 555 nm ...
And white leds are made ,mainly for human vision...
Specially,the quality ones....
So ....
My 22 Watt panel has still a PPF value, around 46-50 range...
Depending on the different spectra I've tried....
( being a bit conservative,also...... )
...
Based,always,to Ledengin Tool....
"..take the µmol with a grain of salt for the first time..."
Dunno what you mean,really....
Are you still all,on board ?
Joint time ,maybe ?
Edit:
Come to think about it....
Don't you think that the values for the 700mA ,are a bit low ?
I thought that-nowdays-they emit at 220-240 lm range ...
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Well..
It's pretty complicated...
It has relative power for every each one led ,for every each one nanometer...
It takes into account many factors...And I mean many...
One of them is power..
Both Absolute and Relative...
Then it calculates (everything) according to number of pcs of each different led and makes the graph...
At least on the graph tab...
It is designed -specially-though for ledengin 's multi die(and multi channeled driven!! WoW... That's what I call future...) led for plant growth..
It can do a lot of other stuff ,too..
Please do correct me ,in case that I'm wrong...
Dunno the spreadsheet....
First time I saw it...
Thanks to you...
Very good and it has fun to play with...
And very useful..
Though every " led" represents a ledengin die...
Not exactly GDs ,Lumis,Asians,Cree Xs ,ect...
But the spectras -nowdays-generally can be considered very 'close'..
Every manuf. mimics the other...
Good ideas share....
And the guy who made it,he seems to be a genius...
At least ,to me ....
It's pretty complicated...
It has relative power for every each one led ,for every each one nanometer...
It takes into account many factors...And I mean many...
One of them is power..
Both Absolute and Relative...
Then it calculates (everything) according to number of pcs of each different led and makes the graph...
At least on the graph tab...
It is designed -specially-though for ledengin 's multi die(and multi channeled driven!! WoW... That's what I call future...) led for plant growth..
It can do a lot of other stuff ,too..
Please do correct me ,in case that I'm wrong...
Dunno the spreadsheet....
First time I saw it...
Thanks to you...
Very good and it has fun to play with...
And very useful..
Though every " led" represents a ledengin die...
Not exactly GDs ,Lumis,Asians,Cree Xs ,ect...
But the spectras -nowdays-generally can be considered very 'close'..
Every manuf. mimics the other...
Good ideas share....
And the guy who made it,he seems to be a genius...
At least ,to me ....
guod
Well-Known Member
i will please you.....
was no Problem to go for 50°C
they are now working at 450mA and more or less 40°C ambient @ 20°C
heat, too much light on one point, poor Data,(as a Growlight), fine for anything else
research:
you want them long and tall
no problem
from now on more compact
some girls going to be a Lady
you see the fans in the Pic