you're god does not exist

[Moebius]

the part where the universe revolves around this dude

you forgot that

You can cut the Trolling out Sam. I don't respond to personal attacks. If you wish to talk about this further please show some basic respect.

edit:

Although, since the universe is infinite, I am technically at its center.

 

[Moebius]

Now back to Looper. Cheerio.

 

[Heisenberg]

To say that before consciousness was around to produce a subjective experience of heat, there was no subjective experience of heat, is a redundancy, not an insight.

 

[kpmarine]

I'm not sure tbh. ... but... It might be the difference between heat and temperature.

I can't do it all in this thread. Google it.

Ahhh...sarcasm, always a fun thing to try and figure out in text. Seriously though, they need a font for that.

Anyways, let me try this again. I get the semantics debate. However, I was asking what relevance there was to you primary point. Which is summed up in this bit you stated:

'Heat' as we experience it is simply IR. What makes it become 'Heat' is our subjective experience.

Just because you do not perceive something the same way as me, it does not really carry any special relevance on its own. Why is how we experience "heat" important? It does not change the fact that these IR waves are produced. It doesn't really change any fundamental concept I can think of. Please though, feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something important here. I am really trying to figure out what the purpose to your points are.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

You can cut the Trolling out Sam. I don't respond to personal attacks. If you wish to talk about this further please show some basic respect.

edit:

Although, since the universe is infinite, I am technically at its center.

sig worthy logic fail

par for the course

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

you and your word games . . . . . heat is in the end a measurement, some things measure contrast others , newer temp inferred guns use a signal received through the inferred that is interpreted as a temperature . . .kinda like our burn response except we go ow and it goes 400 . .or something

the energy that makes measuring heat as a temperature has nothing to do with our perception or reaction to it

word smith BS, doesnt change that the energy that is measured by heat exist outside of experiencing the effects of it

your mincing of words doesn't change the issue with your perception of what heat/energy/temperature . .. or so it seems

maybe you are just a super troll, on stupid pills

what exactly do you think that is contrasting to what i have said, can you use words to explain yourself or just copy and paste and then provide no anecdotal opinions or i think statements

 

[Moebius]

Ahhh... "...google it..." it has been too long since I saw you last. Seriously though, what is the point here? What the hell do I even "google" for that? Perhaps something like "What relevance does my perception of heat, relative to other things, have to do with anything applicable to my life?" would sum up what I'm trying to glean from what you've said. However, I don't see that getting me many answers from you: The person who stated this as if it had some relevance, but then does not care to say what this relevance is.

If its not relevant to you,thats ok. I don't know you so how would I know?

I wasn't even discussing this with you until YOU questioned my postings. However, if interested watch this. (or not)

Richard Feynman

[video=youtube;Bgaw9qe7DEE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgaw9qe7DEE[/video]

 

[Moebius]

you and your word games . . . . . heat is in the end a measurement, some things measure contrast others , newer temp inferred guns use a signal received through the inferred that is interpreted as a temperature . . .kinda like our burn response except we go ow and it goes 400 . .or something

the energy that makes measuring heat as a temperature has nothing to do with our perception or reaction to it

word smith BS, doesnt change that the energy that is measured by heat exist outside of experiencing the effects of it

your mincing of words doesn't change the issue with your perception of what heat/energy/temperature . .. or so it seems

maybe you are just a super troll, on stupid pills

what exactly do you think that is contrasting to what i have said, can you use words to explain yourself or just copy and paste and then provide no anecdotal opinions or i think statements

I won't be talking to you again Sam. .. Theres no need for you to address me again.

 

[Samwell Seed Well]

kinda ironic that you posted a learning things is fun video . . .what a joke

you couldn't explain yourself out of a 6 foot tunnel

no wonder you turn your back and scurried away, wiki hero . . whats your wiki level 36?

 

[Moebius]

Thats a chemical reaction too. burning trees etc .... and where did I mention Entropy?

The flow part is physics.

Nobody picked me up on this but ... its technically an exothermic chemical reaction.

Now i better get of this computer and get some work done, deadline to meet.

 

[kpmarine]

If its not relevant to you,thats ok. I don't know you so how would I know?

I wasn't even discussing this with you until YOU questioned my postings. However, if interested watch this. (or not)

Richard Feynman

[video=youtube;Bgaw9qe7DEE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgaw9qe7DEE[/video]

I was not aware that things posted in a forum were immune to comment from the member of said forum. Not trying to be a dick, but I really can't think of a better response to your bit about me asking questions. From what I have seen, this is pretty common practice on RUI. Requiring people to defend their points, I mean.

In your defense; the question I asked initially was badly phrased and didn't encompass everything I was trying to ask, so I shall try again. My apologies for messing it up the first few times. Bear with me, and I shall eventually find a way to convey everything that I'm wondering. I am not a genius by any means, so it may take me a while to get all the way to my point correctly. That being said, on to my query!!!

Take, for example, a tree and a person who are both on fire. The person feels "heat" as you are using the term. However, your previous statements assume you know what the tree is feeling as it is lit on fire as well. Now that begs a certain question: "Have you ever been something other than human?". That is really the only way you can say our perceptions differ. To my recollection, we have never been able to link our perceptions to the perceptions of other organisms in any exact sense. You cannot really say something is "subjective" unless you have other perspectives to draw from. The ultimate truths of life do not change based upon who is viewing them.

 

[eye exaggerate]

Ahhh...sarcasm, always a fun thing to try and figure out in text. Seriously though, they need a font for that.

...oh hell yeah!

 

[guy incognito]

AGREED ... but that's Temperature. ... as measure in Kelvin or whatever. The heat is what a brain perceives.

Heat is very real and measurable though. Heat will transfer from a hot body to a cold one. I am pretty sure this happened long before humans were around. Heat does not need my subjective experience of it to validate its existence.

Those sources you posted sound to me like mumbo jumbo bullshit.

[SIZE=+1]Does a sound exist when a tree falls in a forest, if nobody is present to hear it ? No, the fall of the tree only creates vibrations. The sound occurs if vibrations are perceived by a living being.

[/SIZE]

I am trying to wrap my head around this. I consider the vibrations to be the actual sound, and what you hear is your brains interpretation of those vibrations. But those vibrations exist whether I am their to interpret the data or not. If humans didn't exist, but you had an audio recorder it would record those vibrations because they would still exist.

 

[kpmarine]

Heat is very real and measurable though. Heat will transfer from a hot body to a cold one. I am pretty sure this happened long before humans were around. Heat does not need my subjective experience of it to validate its existence.

Those sources you posted sound to me like mumbo jumbo bullshit.

[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

I am trying to wrap my head around this. I consider the vibrations to be the actual sound, and what you hear is your brains interpretation of those vibrations. But those vibrations exist whether I am their to interpret the data or not. If humans didn't exist, but you had an audio recorder it would record those vibrations because they would still exist.

He's trotting out that tired old subjective reality bit again is all. It's nothing new, as I'm sure you've noticed by now. haha

 

[Moebius]

One of my favourite Einstein Quotes ......'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'


A fun experiment that might demonstrate my point.

Take 2 bowls of water. One 'Hot' , the other 'Cold'. ..... Place one hand in the Hot bowl and the other in the Cold bowl. Now get a third bowl containing tepid or luke warm water and place both hands into the bowl ......The hand which was previously in the cold water now feels Hot, whilst the hand that was in the Hot water now feels Cold.

The simple experiment demonstrates the subjectivity of the experience we call 'heat'.

 

[kpmarine]

One of my favourite Einstein Quotes ......'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'


A fun experiment that might demonstrate my point.

Take 2 bowls of water. One 'Hot' , the other 'Cold'. ..... Place one hand in the Hot bowl and the other in the Cold bowl. Now get a third bowl containing tepid or luke warm water and place both hands into the bowl ......The hand which was previously in the cold water now feels Hot, whilst the hand that was in the Hot water now feels Cold.

The simple experiment demonstrates the subjectivity of the experience we call 'heat'.

Yet, it does not change the meaningful factor: Even if you can't feel the temperature of the water, it doesn't change the temperature of the water. Put a thermometer into cold water, then put it into hot water; check temp after it stabilizes. Then put that same thermometer into the same hot water from room temp. and let it stabilize. Now you understand why we use a thermometer and not out hands to tell the temperature.

 

[Moebius]

I am trying to wrap my head around this. I consider the vibrations to be the actual sound, and what you hear is your brains interpretation of those vibrations. But those vibrations exist whether I am their to interpret the data or not. If humans didn't exist, but you had an audio recorder it would record those vibrations because they would still exist.

What if I was to tell you that those same vibrations could be perceived not as sound but as colour or smell.

Its called 'Synesthesia'. People who experience this are not wrong, its just that their brains are wired differently. The vibrations remain true, but the interpretation is different that ours.

 

[Moebius]

Yet, it does not change the meaningful factor: Even if you can't feel the temperature of the water, it doesn't change the temperature of the water. Put a thermometer into cold water, then put it into hot water; check temp after it stabilizes. Then put that same thermometer into the same hot water from room temp. and let it stabilize. Now you understand why we use a thermometer and not out hands to tell the temperature.

Again .... I'm not talking temperature ... so please stop insisting that I am.

 

[Moebius]

He's trotting out that tired old subjective reality bit again is all. It's nothing new, as I'm sure you've noticed by now. haha

If you tire so of this discussion why would you continue to engage in it?

That, I do not understand.

Now I know thats how you feel, I won't expend the calories in attempting to explain.

Edit:
Anyone else you wishes to discuss further, let me know. Until then, I'm done.
I'm a lay person who is only discussing this for fun.

Many of these ideas are counter intuitive. They require a particular type of mind to get ones head around the concepts. I have to be open to the possibility that some people will remain unconvinced, Im ok with that.

 

[Heisenberg]

If you tire so of this discussion why would you continue to engage in it?

That, I do not understand.

Now I know thats how you feel, I won't expend the calories in attempting to explain.

I'm a lay person who is only discussing this for fun.

I don't see much of a discussion. You are saying there is a subjective element to the way we experience heat. Others are saying yes, but a person who can not feel can still get third degree burns. The subjective element only matters to the subject. This is why we have a 1-10 scale for pain that will be different for each person, and a standardized scale for burn damage which is relatively consistent for each person. I do not see you denying that, so I am not sure why further discussion is needed.