Moebius
Well-Known Member
You can cut the Trolling out Sam. I don't respond to personal attacks. If you wish to talk about this further please show some basic respect.
edit:
Although, since the universe is infinite, I am technically at its center.
you're god does not exist
- Thread starter ThE sAtIvA hIgH
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edit:
Although, since the universe is infinite, I am technically at its center.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
To say that before consciousness was around to produce a subjective experience of heat, there was no subjective experience of heat, is a redundancy, not an insight.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Ahhh...sarcasm, always a fun thing to try and figure out in text. Seriously though, they need a font for that.
Anyways, let me try this again. I get the semantics debate. However, I was asking what relevance there was to you primary point. Which is summed up in this bit you stated:
Just because you do not perceive something the same way as me, it does not really carry any special relevance on its own. Why is how we experience "heat" important? It does not change the fact that these IR waves are produced. It doesn't really change any fundamental concept I can think of. Please though, feel free to enlighten me if I'm missing something important here. I am really trying to figure out what the purpose to your points are.
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
sig worthy logic failYou can cut the Trolling out Sam. I don't respond to personal attacks. If you wish to talk about this further please show some basic respect.
edit:
Although, since the universe is infinite, I am technically at its center.
par for the course
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
you and your word games . . . . . heat is in the end a measurement, some things measure contrast others , newer temp inferred guns use a signal received through the inferred that is interpreted as a temperature . . .kinda like our burn response except we go ow and it goes 400 . .or something
the energy that makes measuring heat as a temperature has nothing to do with our perception or reaction to it
word smith BS, doesnt change that the energy that is measured by heat exist outside of experiencing the effects of it
your mincing of words doesn't change the issue with your perception of what heat/energy/temperature . .. or so it seems
maybe you are just a super troll, on stupid pills
what exactly do you think that is contrasting to what i have said, can you use words to explain yourself or just copy and paste and then provide no anecdotal opinions or i think statements
the energy that makes measuring heat as a temperature has nothing to do with our perception or reaction to it
word smith BS, doesnt change that the energy that is measured by heat exist outside of experiencing the effects of it
your mincing of words doesn't change the issue with your perception of what heat/energy/temperature . .. or so it seems
maybe you are just a super troll, on stupid pills
what exactly do you think that is contrasting to what i have said, can you use words to explain yourself or just copy and paste and then provide no anecdotal opinions or i think statements
Moebius
Well-Known Member
If its not relevant to you,thats ok. I don't know you so how would I know?
I wasn't even discussing this with you until YOU questioned my postings. However, if interested watch this. (or not)
Richard Feynman
[video=youtube;Bgaw9qe7DEE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgaw9qe7DEE[/video]
Moebius
Well-Known Member
I won't be talking to you again Sam. .. Theres no need for you to address me again.
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
kinda ironic that you posted a learning things is fun video . . .what a joke
you couldn't explain yourself out of a 6 foot tunnel
no wonder you turn your back and scurried away, wiki hero . . whats your wiki level 36?
you couldn't explain yourself out of a 6 foot tunnel
no wonder you turn your back and scurried away, wiki hero . . whats your wiki level 36?
Moebius
Well-Known Member
Nobody picked me up on this but ... its technically an exothermic chemical reaction.
Now i better get of this computer and get some work done, deadline to meet.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
I was not aware that things posted in a forum were immune to comment from the member of said forum. Not trying to be a dick, but I really can't think of a better response to your bit about me asking questions. From what I have seen, this is pretty common practice on RUI. Requiring people to defend their points, I mean.
In your defense; the question I asked initially was badly phrased and didn't encompass everything I was trying to ask, so I shall try again. My apologies for messing it up the first few times. Bear with me, and I shall eventually find a way to convey everything that I'm wondering. I am not a genius by any means, so it may take me a while to get all the way to my point correctly. That being said, on to my query!!!
Take, for example, a tree and a person who are both on fire. The person feels "heat" as you are using the term. However, your previous statements assume you know what the tree is feeling as it is lit on fire as well. Now that begs a certain question: "Have you ever been something other than human?". That is really the only way you can say our perceptions differ. To my recollection, we have never been able to link our perceptions to the perceptions of other organisms in any exact sense. You cannot really say something is "subjective" unless you have other perspectives to draw from. The ultimate truths of life do not change based upon who is viewing them.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
...oh hell yeah!
guy incognito
Well-Known Member
Heat is very real and measurable though. Heat will transfer from a hot body to a cold one. I am pretty sure this happened long before humans were around. Heat does not need my subjective experience of it to validate its existence.
Those sources you posted sound to me like mumbo jumbo bullshit.
[/SIZE]
I am trying to wrap my head around this. I consider the vibrations to be the actual sound, and what you hear is your brains interpretation of those vibrations. But those vibrations exist whether I am their to interpret the data or not. If humans didn't exist, but you had an audio recorder it would record those vibrations because they would still exist.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
He's trotting out that tired old subjective reality bit again is all. It's nothing new, as I'm sure you've noticed by now. haha
Moebius
Well-Known Member
One of my favourite Einstein Quotes ......'Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.'
A fun experiment that might demonstrate my point.
Take 2 bowls of water. One 'Hot' , the other 'Cold'. ..... Place one hand in the Hot bowl and the other in the Cold bowl. Now get a third bowl containing tepid or luke warm water and place both hands into the bowl ......The hand which was previously in the cold water now feels Hot, whilst the hand that was in the Hot water now feels Cold.
The simple experiment demonstrates the subjectivity of the experience we call 'heat'.
A fun experiment that might demonstrate my point.
Take 2 bowls of water. One 'Hot' , the other 'Cold'. ..... Place one hand in the Hot bowl and the other in the Cold bowl. Now get a third bowl containing tepid or luke warm water and place both hands into the bowl ......The hand which was previously in the cold water now feels Hot, whilst the hand that was in the Hot water now feels Cold.
The simple experiment demonstrates the subjectivity of the experience we call 'heat'.
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
Yet, it does not change the meaningful factor: Even if you can't feel the temperature of the water, it doesn't change the temperature of the water. Put a thermometer into cold water, then put it into hot water; check temp after it stabilizes. Then put that same thermometer into the same hot water from room temp. and let it stabilize. Now you understand why we use a thermometer and not out hands to tell the temperature.
Moebius
Well-Known Member
What if I was to tell you that those same vibrations could be perceived not as sound but as colour or smell.
Its called 'Synesthesia'. People who experience this are not wrong, its just that their brains are wired differently. The vibrations remain true, but the interpretation is different that ours.
Moebius
Well-Known Member
Again .... I'm not talking temperature ... so please stop insisting that I am.
Moebius
Well-Known Member
If you tire so of this discussion why would you continue to engage in it?
That, I do not understand.
Now I know thats how you feel, I won't expend the calories in attempting to explain.
Edit:
Anyone else you wishes to discuss further, let me know. Until then, I'm done.
I'm a lay person who is only discussing this for fun.
Many of these ideas are counter intuitive. They require a particular type of mind to get ones head around the concepts. I have to be open to the possibility that some people will remain unconvinced, Im ok with that.
Heisenberg
Well-Known Member
I don't see much of a discussion. You are saying there is a subjective element to the way we experience heat. Others are saying yes, but a person who can not feel can still get third degree burns. The subjective element only matters to the subject. This is why we have a 1-10 scale for pain that will be different for each person, and a standardized scale for burn damage which is relatively consistent for each person. I do not see you denying that, so I am not sure why further discussion is needed.