sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe
- Thread starter sidewing
- Start date
the soil mix is mainly just a flowering mix for mature plants.. it has a lot of P which is not needed during veg.. if doing it outdoor, just use as much as u want if u are in the ground.. i usually just throw a mound at the base, but i have a good spot in my yard that already has good soil from over 50 years of worm composting. so it grows just fine without anything additional. i just throw maybe a 3gal pot equivalent at the base of the plant.
if you are starting from seedling indoors id start in just plain roots organic, and keep transplanting into plain roots organic until you start flowering. the day u switch to 12/12.. transplant them into the 7gal pots of the soil mix.
you can probably get away with a couple of months to a few months of veg (if you are vegging in the soil mix) but then you will be more likely to be nitrogen deficient during flower. nitrogen is needed during flower, just not as much as p and k.
i think the npk ratio during veg is something like 2-1-3 and the npk ratio during flower is like 1-2-3 something like that.. give or take.
if you are starting from seedling indoors id start in just plain roots organic, and keep transplanting into plain roots organic until you start flowering. the day u switch to 12/12.. transplant them into the 7gal pots of the soil mix.
you can probably get away with a couple of months to a few months of veg (if you are vegging in the soil mix) but then you will be more likely to be nitrogen deficient during flower. nitrogen is needed during flower, just not as much as p and k.
i think the npk ratio during veg is something like 2-1-3 and the npk ratio during flower is like 1-2-3 something like that.. give or take.
I am starting from seed outdoor. I have no equipment to start it early indoors but I wish I could. I have a one gallon pots that I plan on starting them in. I gorilla grow in the woods so I planned on having the holes dug and filled with the soil I need by the time I transplant at like 3-4 weeks old. If I dug a 3' by 3' hole and filled the bottom 2' with your mix and the top foot with roots, mykos, and azomite do you think it would last me till harvest? Thanks in advance. This thread has been very helpful already!
SpicySativa
Well-Known Member
Thats funny... The sentence right after "No pics of this grow until chop day!" is your "This is all a figment of your imagination!" signature. Hope that's just a coincidence.
Noora
Member
Thats funny... The sentence right after "No pics of this grow until chop day!" is your "This is all a figment of your imagination!" signature. Hope that's just a coincidence.
funny. i have pics 1 week into flower, nothing interesting about that, yet.
i have a round about 4-5 weeks into flower right now. ill take some pics right around harvest time. let me know how its working out for u guys.
i have been far too busy to go to the store to get more sucanat, so ive had to substitute with earth juice hi brix instead since i had a bottle lying around. seems to work well, the plants are very very sticky/oily feeling early on. but im running 4 new strains also this time so i cant say if its the hi brix or just the strains. but they are very full thick buds and have explosive growth. very smelly.
im just using 5ml of hi brix instead of the 4 tsp of sucanat.
i guess the point is you dont have to use exact things to have a successful grow. many different things will work., its all about whats more convenient for you, and what gives you the best results cuz everyones situations and enviroments are different. i saw a bag of dr earth organic soil at the grow shop that seemed like it had a good mix of ingredients and seemed like it had a lot of the components of liquid karma in the soil. im sort of curious to try that as the base soil instead of roots organic. not sure if i will have the time or space to do so anytime soon though. heres a link of it that i found quickly by googling
http://www.naturehills.com/dr-earth-organic-premium-potting-soil?gclid=CP6u_N6Z_rICFeaDQgodf3AAiQ
i have been far too busy to go to the store to get more sucanat, so ive had to substitute with earth juice hi brix instead since i had a bottle lying around. seems to work well, the plants are very very sticky/oily feeling early on. but im running 4 new strains also this time so i cant say if its the hi brix or just the strains. but they are very full thick buds and have explosive growth. very smelly.
im just using 5ml of hi brix instead of the 4 tsp of sucanat.
i guess the point is you dont have to use exact things to have a successful grow. many different things will work., its all about whats more convenient for you, and what gives you the best results cuz everyones situations and enviroments are different. i saw a bag of dr earth organic soil at the grow shop that seemed like it had a good mix of ingredients and seemed like it had a lot of the components of liquid karma in the soil. im sort of curious to try that as the base soil instead of roots organic. not sure if i will have the time or space to do so anytime soon though. heres a link of it that i found quickly by googling
http://www.naturehills.com/dr-earth-organic-premium-potting-soil?gclid=CP6u_N6Z_rICFeaDQgodf3AAiQ
Ccoastal
Active Member
the large bags of Roots are 1.5 cu feet
natural & organic is a blend by Roots Organic. they make natural & organic, 707 formula, and greenfields. 707 has less nutrients and perlite and is made for amending outdoor soil or mixing to your personal liking. greenfields has a higher N charge to it for longer veg times and hungrier plants. natural & organic is the one you want for super soil.
Ccoastal
natural & organic is a blend by Roots Organic. they make natural & organic, 707 formula, and greenfields. 707 has less nutrients and perlite and is made for amending outdoor soil or mixing to your personal liking. greenfields has a higher N charge to it for longer veg times and hungrier plants. natural & organic is the one you want for super soil.
Ccoastal
unfortunately I do not have acces to natural & organic, I live in europe and I have acess to Gold Label specialmix Soil, can this work aswell?
also I wonder one thing about these products:
200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
what are they for? I do not have acess to them so is there anything they can be replaced with?
Ccoastal
Active Member
i dont know, i dont have access to gold label special mix and ive never used it. you will have to do some research on your own
Ccoastal
This is what I have put together now, copying the OP in principle:
50l Gold Label Specialmix Soil
2.5kg Gold Label Black Earth Worm Castings 1-0-0
325g Giva Bone Meal: 7-3.5-0
325g Giva Blood Meal: 14-0-0
700g Gold label Bat Guano: 0-10-0
45g Potassium Sulfate 0-0-50
115g Azomite
55g Endo Mycorrhizal fungi
60g of Kelp Meal 1-0-2
40g Dolomite
30g alfalfa meal 2-1-2
12g Humic Acid powder
5g Epsom salt
50l Gold Label Specialmix Soil
2.5kg Gold Label Black Earth Worm Castings 1-0-0
325g Giva Bone Meal: 7-3.5-0
325g Giva Blood Meal: 14-0-0
700g Gold label Bat Guano: 0-10-0
45g Potassium Sulfate 0-0-50
115g Azomite
55g Endo Mycorrhizal fungi
60g of Kelp Meal 1-0-2
40g Dolomite
30g alfalfa meal 2-1-2
12g Humic Acid powder
5g Epsom salt
A post to the Thread starter:
Hello, I liked (I think) your modifications on subcools super soil. I was looking into making a modified version
of it too when I stumbled upon you thread. The main thin that I noticed was the lack of K and you covered that.
So I have ordered some amendments and I am going to try a modification of your modified soil hehe, but I need
some advice hope you can help.
This is what it will contain, I have modified the numbers, one large bag for you is approximately 43 litres, and I will mix this in a 50 litre soil. I will place a comment on each amendment on midifications and/or questions.
50 litres of GOld Label specialmix soil
2.5kg Earth Worm Castings 1-0-0 I do not have acess to cheap worm castings so 2.5kg will have to do, (but I will
compensate for this with more humic acid and fulvic acid?)
325g Giva Bone Meal: 7-3.5-0 No modification
325g Giva Blood Meal: 14-0-0 No modifiation
700g Gold label Bat Guano: 0-10-0 Since your fishbone meal contains approx 12% more P I will add twice the
amount of Bat Guano to compensate 10% of the "missing" P.
45g Potassium Sulfate 0-0-50 No modification
----115g Azomite No modification
I do not have any acess to:
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
Can I compensate for this by adding:
Endo Mycorrhizal fungi Powdered? And if so, how much should I have in?
I also do not have acess to:
200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
Can I compensate for this by adding:
More than 12g Humic Acid powder? If so how much?
And also, how much more of Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid should I have in the mix
to compensate for the 2.4kg of worm castings ?
60g of Kelp Meal 1-0-2 No modification
40g Dolomite No modification
30g alfalfa meal 2-1-2 No modification
5g Epsom salt No modification
I also have som Silica Powder, how much of this should I use in the mix?
Hello, I liked (I think) your modifications on subcools super soil. I was looking into making a modified version
of it too when I stumbled upon you thread. The main thin that I noticed was the lack of K and you covered that.
So I have ordered some amendments and I am going to try a modification of your modified soil hehe, but I need
some advice hope you can help.
This is what it will contain, I have modified the numbers, one large bag for you is approximately 43 litres, and I will mix this in a 50 litre soil. I will place a comment on each amendment on midifications and/or questions.
50 litres of GOld Label specialmix soil
2.5kg Earth Worm Castings 1-0-0 I do not have acess to cheap worm castings so 2.5kg will have to do, (but I will
compensate for this with more humic acid and fulvic acid?)
325g Giva Bone Meal: 7-3.5-0 No modification
325g Giva Blood Meal: 14-0-0 No modifiation
700g Gold label Bat Guano: 0-10-0 Since your fishbone meal contains approx 12% more P I will add twice the
amount of Bat Guano to compensate 10% of the "missing" P.
45g Potassium Sulfate 0-0-50 No modification
----115g Azomite No modification
I do not have any acess to:
200g xtreme mycorrhizal granules
Can I compensate for this by adding:
Endo Mycorrhizal fungi Powdered? And if so, how much should I have in?
I also do not have acess to:
200g ancient forest alaska humus (general organics)
Can I compensate for this by adding:
More than 12g Humic Acid powder? If so how much?
And also, how much more of Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid should I have in the mix
to compensate for the 2.4kg of worm castings ?
60g of Kelp Meal 1-0-2 No modification
40g Dolomite No modification
30g alfalfa meal 2-1-2 No modification
5g Epsom salt No modification
I also have som Silica Powder, how much of this should I use in the mix?
here was my PM response:
k well heres my thoughts. i use down to earth brand for most of my addtives. and happy frog bat guano. i noticed your different brands have different ratios and may work differently.. some addtives are water soluble and some arent. so i can only really give my opinion on brands that i use. but ill give my thoughts on what you said. (before i forget i order most of my stuff from groworganic.com if u want to order something they have the brands i use for the most part)
the earth worm castings offer a little bit of nitrogen, but they have a really diverse bacteria profile which is beneficial to your soil. humic and fulvic acids are there for helping break down your nutrients in your soil into a usable form for the plant.. so i wouldnt compensate anything, just use what you have.. worm castings the additives dont have to be precise, just use the bag and leave it at that.
bone meal is not organic as fish bone meal is. and as u said its higher in P so its more important for flowering.. the n-p-k is more for a vegging additive at this point.. maybe use a little less of this and the blood meal since itll be a lot more nitrogen.
the bat guano u are using is higher npk ratio than the happy frog which is 0-5-0.. u might want to go a little less.. more is not necessarily better.. different brands of guano work differnetly. if its water soluble it might be meant to use fast and then not have any left for later in flower.. where some guano might break down slowly feeding the plant all thru flower.. if it all breaks down really fast it could cause some burning.. its always best to start with less and then adjust and add more if you think the plant could use it later.. you can always add more, but u cant remove whats already in there.
that mycorrhizal should be ok.. but i know some mycorrhizal is intended for water drenching and some intended for mixing with soil. the one i use is granular and intended for soil mixing as its not water soluble. if the one u are using is water soluble, then i wouldnt add it to the soil, id just add like a tablespoon per galllon of water as u go thru flowering.
alaska humus is not the same as humic acid. humus works as a ph buffer, and it also has a very diverse profile of bacteria that it offers the soil life. u can add a little humic and fulvic acid just in general to the soil, but i just use liquid karma as it takes care of that. dolomite lime also buffers ph, so i wouldnt worry about it. theres another brand of alaska humus called denali gold that would work if u have access to that.
usually powdered things are used up faster than granular things. its just going to be a process of trial and error because u are esentially making your own soil mix with different brands. the good thing about soil additives is most of them are flexible, and its harder to mess up a soil mix than it is to overfeed in bottled nutrients. just be careful with epsom salt espeiclaly, dolomite lime, and the potassium sulfate.. as those are stronger and can cause issues easier than the rest, which the rest you will have some wiggle room.
id say start with less, and adjust as you think things need to be adjusted until u have results to your liking.
as far as the silica powder where did you get that from? i was looking for some and couldnt find any, cant really offer any advice as to how much to use but i considered adding rice hulls to the mix because its a good natural source of silica.
check out groworganic.com they are a great website and not cannabis related, its a legit gardening site so its safe to order things in my opinion. they carry almost every additive i use except happy frog.. but i did email them asking if they could carry it, so maybe they have started recently im not sure.
good luck let me know how things go.
as far as the soil.. just look for a good organic soil mix that has a good diversity of guano, worm castings, humus, perilite, yucca, aloe.. those are things i look for. as i said i think i might experiement with a batch with the dr earth bag of soil it really soudns like a good mix, heres what it has in it:
This Home Grown potting soil is formulated from a fine selection of composted organic materials. This blend is packed full of the organic materials that help your plants become established. Ingredients used are fir bark fines, forest humus, peat moss, perlite, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal and concentrated seaweed extract. Included is Dr. Earth's exclusive patented technology of ProMoisture Hydrate formulated to keep the biology alive inside the media, thus keeping the intelligence alive. Dr. Earth has also included Probiotic beneficial soil microbes plus mycorrhizae. Now your plants can benefit from the addition of nature's partnership - mycorrhizae - it also has aloe and yucca i believe..
heres the ingredient list of roots organic:
(which i think they call roots original now)
A truly exceptional ready-to-use coco fiber-based potting soil. We begin with the highest quality coco fiber/Coir which is repeatedly washed for low EC, and composted. This soil is amended with organic ingredients including bat guano, earth worm castings, fish bone meal, feather meal, green sand, mycorrihzae, glacial rock dust, soybean meal, humic acid, and many more. Comes in a heavy-duty, ready-to-grow, 1.5 cu ft/10 gal bag; simply poke holes in the bottom, cut off the top, and plant.
k well heres my thoughts. i use down to earth brand for most of my addtives. and happy frog bat guano. i noticed your different brands have different ratios and may work differently.. some addtives are water soluble and some arent. so i can only really give my opinion on brands that i use. but ill give my thoughts on what you said. (before i forget i order most of my stuff from groworganic.com if u want to order something they have the brands i use for the most part)
the earth worm castings offer a little bit of nitrogen, but they have a really diverse bacteria profile which is beneficial to your soil. humic and fulvic acids are there for helping break down your nutrients in your soil into a usable form for the plant.. so i wouldnt compensate anything, just use what you have.. worm castings the additives dont have to be precise, just use the bag and leave it at that.
bone meal is not organic as fish bone meal is. and as u said its higher in P so its more important for flowering.. the n-p-k is more for a vegging additive at this point.. maybe use a little less of this and the blood meal since itll be a lot more nitrogen.
the bat guano u are using is higher npk ratio than the happy frog which is 0-5-0.. u might want to go a little less.. more is not necessarily better.. different brands of guano work differnetly. if its water soluble it might be meant to use fast and then not have any left for later in flower.. where some guano might break down slowly feeding the plant all thru flower.. if it all breaks down really fast it could cause some burning.. its always best to start with less and then adjust and add more if you think the plant could use it later.. you can always add more, but u cant remove whats already in there.
that mycorrhizal should be ok.. but i know some mycorrhizal is intended for water drenching and some intended for mixing with soil. the one i use is granular and intended for soil mixing as its not water soluble. if the one u are using is water soluble, then i wouldnt add it to the soil, id just add like a tablespoon per galllon of water as u go thru flowering.
alaska humus is not the same as humic acid. humus works as a ph buffer, and it also has a very diverse profile of bacteria that it offers the soil life. u can add a little humic and fulvic acid just in general to the soil, but i just use liquid karma as it takes care of that. dolomite lime also buffers ph, so i wouldnt worry about it. theres another brand of alaska humus called denali gold that would work if u have access to that.
usually powdered things are used up faster than granular things. its just going to be a process of trial and error because u are esentially making your own soil mix with different brands. the good thing about soil additives is most of them are flexible, and its harder to mess up a soil mix than it is to overfeed in bottled nutrients. just be careful with epsom salt espeiclaly, dolomite lime, and the potassium sulfate.. as those are stronger and can cause issues easier than the rest, which the rest you will have some wiggle room.
id say start with less, and adjust as you think things need to be adjusted until u have results to your liking.
as far as the silica powder where did you get that from? i was looking for some and couldnt find any, cant really offer any advice as to how much to use but i considered adding rice hulls to the mix because its a good natural source of silica.
check out groworganic.com they are a great website and not cannabis related, its a legit gardening site so its safe to order things in my opinion. they carry almost every additive i use except happy frog.. but i did email them asking if they could carry it, so maybe they have started recently im not sure.
good luck let me know how things go.
as far as the soil.. just look for a good organic soil mix that has a good diversity of guano, worm castings, humus, perilite, yucca, aloe.. those are things i look for. as i said i think i might experiement with a batch with the dr earth bag of soil it really soudns like a good mix, heres what it has in it:
This Home Grown potting soil is formulated from a fine selection of composted organic materials. This blend is packed full of the organic materials that help your plants become established. Ingredients used are fir bark fines, forest humus, peat moss, perlite, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal and concentrated seaweed extract. Included is Dr. Earth's exclusive patented technology of ProMoisture Hydrate formulated to keep the biology alive inside the media, thus keeping the intelligence alive. Dr. Earth has also included Probiotic beneficial soil microbes plus mycorrhizae. Now your plants can benefit from the addition of nature's partnership - mycorrhizae - it also has aloe and yucca i believe..
heres the ingredient list of roots organic:
(which i think they call roots original now)
A truly exceptional ready-to-use coco fiber-based potting soil. We begin with the highest quality coco fiber/Coir which is repeatedly washed for low EC, and composted. This soil is amended with organic ingredients including bat guano, earth worm castings, fish bone meal, feather meal, green sand, mycorrihzae, glacial rock dust, soybean meal, humic acid, and many more. Comes in a heavy-duty, ready-to-grow, 1.5 cu ft/10 gal bag; simply poke holes in the bottom, cut off the top, and plant.
First of all thank you for being so informative.
After reading your post I decided to do these thins:
Add 4kg of worm castings instead of 2.5kg, I found that it gets a little cheaper with 5kg order.
Cut the bat guano from 700g to 325g. If needed I will make tea later.
Cut blood meal from 325g to 300g.
This is what the info on the Bat Guano says:
6. Gold Label Bat Guano XO
An old fully fermented solid bat guano with an extremely high level of phosphorus (0-10-0). 5 years aged in climate storage. Also a rich source of magnesium and trace elements. Can be used as a top dressing or dissolved / such as tea, especially mid- bloom and the need for phosphorus increases.
NPK 0-10-0
It is water soluble, however, I do not se anything if it is slow-releasing or not?
As for the issue on water soluble products, I realized now that all of these products are water soluble:
Potassium Sulfate
Endo Mycorrhizal fungi
Humic Acid
Fulvic Acid
Silica Powder (by the way, ordered silica powder from here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170630270405&ssPageName=ADME:L:COSI:US:1123
Which of these products is not good to add to the mix soil and add to water instead? And why is that so? Is it simply because of their
fast-release properties?
I assume that Potassium Sulfate is safe to use in soil mix?
Also assume the same for Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid?
u can add it but since its water soluble its effects will be quick working because the water will strip it out of the soil and itll drain out the bottom. if its slow release (usually larger chunks or granules versus powder) itll hang around in the soil releasing thru the life of flower.. remember the original super soil is intended to be water only all thru flower. so stuff is meant to last near 10 weeks feeding the plant the whole time. usually on the guano itll say the npk ratio, then on the back itll have a percentage that is soluble and non-soluble. if you use the liquid karma once a week you dont need to use any humic or fulvic additionally to that.