question about genetics and selfing to make seeds

[polyarcturus]

listen buddy i dont really care about all that i looked in here a fem min. ago and thought about posting then i realized you really think you know your stuff. which is fine im not gonna be an asshole to day and correct you. what i will do, is instead offer you the chance to list your objections to the "misinformation" i have given thus far, then i will show you all the research to prove you are wrong.


im trying to be polite as shit, and im just telling after tons and tons of reading and learning and unlearning things everything i have stated is correct.


also i do not remember or see me specifically saying the offspring will be like the mother, but if you are selfing the mother and father are the same so....

 

[WattSaver]

There will be variation, a clone is seed form is UN-attainable.
Just look at the TGA gear you have those seeds came from one male and one female and you end up with several variations, and some of these are large. It is due to recessive genes. And the girl you have that you like has those recessive genes........ Get it?????
If using CS I believe its better to start out with 2 clones one to spray and one to pollinate. CS can reek havoc on a plant and I'd rather get seeds from a healthy female. (But it CAN be done with one, but would not advise doing it)

 

[chongsbuddy]

Thank you wattsaver!

 

[chongsbuddy]

im not wrong i know that,i just asked a breeder to be sure and he agrred

 

[chongsbuddy]

pollinating a female with its own pollen will essentially create a clone of the female in seed form.

vthis is what i was referring to which is 100% incorrect

 

[chongsbuddy]

look man,im not treying to be a dick either,someone made an untrue statement about seeds being exactly like the parent or basically clones in seedform which is untrue,and you are saying its true?

 

[polyarcturus]

look man,im not treying to be a dick either,someone made an untrue statement about seeds being exactly like the parent or basically clones in seedform which is untrue,and you are saying its true?

it is both a true and untrue statement s i said there will be some variations but for all purposes intended it is true. there will always be minor genetic variation but in this case both parents are the same so the genetic pool is even further limited. so essentially clones in seed form that are going to be more hermie prone.

also with clone you can change and bring out recessive genetics, by using hormones and altering their environments and cutting clones at certain times ect. essentially taking a clone that is another genetic variation of the original. very similar to what a selfed seed is, but in clone form.

 

[polyarcturus]

all im saying is there will be variation, but not much.

 

[chongsbuddy]

ok ,i agree with that 100%
sorry for being an ass,and thank you for not being a dick!you are a mature fellow!

but put it this way,i have selfed plants and in 90% cases i havent found a fem seed exactly like the mom yet,which is why i selfed in the first place..lol

 

[chongsbuddy]

so lets just say we agree and disagree,but in a friendly manner.

 

[chongsbuddy]

A represents the dominant gene and a is the recessive.

So when crossed, for this one gene you get this square of possible combinations:
AA Aa
aA aa

The only way for it to always come out the same is to be pure AA or aa.

The clones will be exact copies of the mother plant (aside from normal DNA degradation that also occurs in the mother) and can't be changed. However the plant will still respond to environment and clones grown under separate conditions will differ.
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[TrynaGroSumShyt]

And there will be variations*

 

[polyarcturus]

A represents the dominant gene and a is the recessive.

So when crossed, for this one gene you get this square of possible combinations:
AA Aa
aA aa

The only way for it to always come out the same is to be pure AA or aa.

The clones will be exact copies of the mother plant (aside from normal DNA degradation that also occurs in the mother) and can't be changed. However the plant will still respond to environment and clones grown under separate conditions will differ.
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yes see this i where the unlearning starts, this model is the basic setup but not exactly how plant work. there a lot of info out there, more updated info, that will tell you more then those combinations are possible when selfing when it comes to plant, you can also find info that genetics can be changed when cloning like i said there is research on this and DNA degradation is still debated because that all pertains to the health of the plant clone was taken from.

dont get me wrong you know your stuff but theres more to it i would say Aa and aA are still very similar to the original, because they come from the same gene pool.

honestly im not sure if this specific subject is touched upon in robert clarkes botany, but i know i read a book with this subject and tests done.

 

[chongsbuddy]

i agree 100% with this":

• i would say Aa and aA are still very similar to the original, because they come from the same gene pool.​
  
  
  
  

 

[chongsbuddy]

you def. know your shit

 

[twostrokenut]

I am going to try selfing some bubba's from greenhouse with CS......if the breeders pack was already S1....would selfing those be S2's?

 

[PurpleBuz]

why don't you go read an article about self pollination. you will discover that the offspring are genetically identical to the parent plant. the statement i made is completely true. and for the record i never said there wouldn't be any variation.

:

With a highly heterozygous plant, selfing the plant via sexual reproduction will NOT NOT NOT produce offspring that is genetically identical to the parent plant.

What you just said is FALSE. It can be only true of the parent plant is 100% homozygous for every single dna pair, which only occurs in a plant that is been inbred until no more variation in the strain occurs. None of the Cannabis strains that we work with are that far inbred.

 

[homebrew420]

This is entirely subjective. If the variety you have chosen is fairly stable there will be little variation. If you're selfing f1 or f2 or poly hybrid chances of progeny to be varied will increase. However what can be learned from selfing is the stability of said individual. The misconception that selfing induces or leans toward intersex traits is probably based on plant first chosen, dank that tends to do this on their own, ie. Sour d chems etc.it is genetically predisposed to express these traits. Often even with poly hybrids one will still see a high percentage of like plants rather than a whole lot of variation. How that helps.

Peace

 

[Jogro]

With a highly heterozygous plant, selfing the plant via sexual reproduction will NOT NOT NOT produce offspring that is genetically identical to the parent plant.

What you just said is FALSE. It can be only true of the parent plant is 100% homozygous for every single dna pair, which only occurs in a plant that is been inbred until no more variation in the strain occurs. None of the Cannabis strains that we work with are that far inbred.

This is absolutely correct.

The results of a self-cross (or an S1) of a plant to itself depend entirely on the genetic makeup of the parent. But conceptually its the same as any other sexual cross between two plants.

If the parent happens to be an inbred line ("true breeding strain"), then the offspring of a self-cross ("S1 cross") will be substantially similar to the parent, same as a cross between two inbred plants of the same line. They probably won't be genetically identical, but most or all traits of interest will be similar.

Now, if the parent is a hybrid (ie NOT a "true breeding" line) then the result of an S1 cross is the same as a cross between ANY two hybrids. Depending on how hybridized the parent is (ie how many loci are heterozygous), you could potentially see dozens of distinct phenotypes from this sort of cross, and not only should you expect many that they be different than the parent, in some cases they can be dramatically different when recessive genes start to get expressed.

 

[Jogro]

I am going to try selfing some bubba's from greenhouse with CS......if the breeders pack was already S1....would selfing those be S2's?

I don't think that terminology is standardized, since basically nobody does this.

Many serious breeders believe that you shouldn't do further breeding with selfed or feminized lines because this sort of prolonged inbreeding weakens the genetics.

Instead, I'd suggest running several of the S1s, find the best pheno you can, then clone that one.

Alternatively, pick the best pheno, then outcross it against something else you like a lot; ideally something somewhat similar.