Nonpartisan Study: No Proof That Tax Cuts For Wealthy Lead To Economic Growth

[timbo123]

Must be hard to swallow! Publish - retract - defend both actions - look stupid !

I think some folks are wanting to discuss the ideas of the article... not the publishing or unpublishing aspects of it. would you care to simply discuss the notion of Reaganomics (aka Supply-side or Trickle down economics) being a vehicle that simply permits the wealthy to increase their own personal levels of excess rather than inducing them to "create jobs"? I for one am bored with your one track focus on the published/unpublished article. For those of us who don't give a fuck about whether it is or is not currently published or retracted... how about telling us why Reaganomics is a great way to go?

 

[FreedomWorks]

Damn . I've got to do the google searches for you guys? What would you do without me?

 

[UncleBuck]

What would you do without me?

 

[timbo123]

Damn . I've got to do the google searches for you guys? What would you do without me?

See... it would seem you want to 'Google Search' your way thru life rather than think. IMHO.

 

[FreedomWorks]

When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009. Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%. At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). The Washington establishment at the time argued that this inflation was now endemic to the American economy, and could not be stopped, at least not without a calamitous economic collapse.

All of the above was accompanied by double -igit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980. The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. In addition, from 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Damn .What would you do without me?

 

[timbo123]

"The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we'll go out and spend more and then it will all trickle down to the rest of you. But that has not worked the last 10 years, and I hope the American public is catching on."
Warren Buffett

Bump

THIS is worth talking about. Not Googled Sean Hannity speak.

 

[FreedomWorks]

See... it would seem you want to 'Google Search' your way thru life rather than think. IMHO.

Well then get ready to change your opinion buddy. Reaganomics can easily be looked up. It's not my plan, its Reagan's
So in this situation here, your argument holds no water.

President Reagan campaigned on an explicitly articulated, four-point economic program to reverse this slow motion collapse of the American economy:
1. Cut tax ratesto restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%.

2. Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan’s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.

3. Anti-inflation monetary policy restraining money supply growth compared to demand, to maintain a stronger, more stable dollar value.

4. Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan’s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%

 

[UncleBuck]

What would you do without me?

 

[Dr Kynes]

Bump

THIS is worth talking about. Not Googled Sean Hannity speak.

conversely the marxist party line is virtually identical, we just havent gotten it all worked out yet. we need more time to create the worker's paradise.

niether idea works in it's pure form unless government keeps their hands out of the soup, and the people accept a certain amount of "breakage" in the form of starving orphans in the street and seniors eating cat food.

balancing the two ideals is whats needed, but the left has to give up their workers paradise and accept that there WILL be people who are rich and there WILL be people who are poor.
and the right has to surrender their dreams of worldwide hegemony through a massive military buildup for no purpose other than fattening the pockets of arms sellers and military contractors.


either side if left to their own devices will fuck us like a drunk chick at a Phish concert. like they are doing in turns now.

 

[timbo123]

Well then get ready to change your opinion buddy. Reaganomics can easily be looked up. It's not my plan, its Reagan's
So in this situation here, your argument holds no water.

President Reagan campaigned on an explicitly articulated, four-point economic program to reverse this slow motion collapse of the American economy:
1. Cut tax ratesto restore incentives for economic growth, which was implemented first with a reduction in the top income tax rate of 70% down to 50%, and then a 25% across-the-board reduction in income tax rates for everyone. The 1986 tax reform then reduced tax rates further, leaving just two rates, 28% and 15%.

2. Spending reductions, including a $31 billion cut in spending in 1981, close to 5% of the federal budget then, or the equivalent of about $175 billion in spending cuts for the year today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan’s two terms! Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War without firing a shot, total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.

3. Anti-inflation monetary policy restraining money supply growth compared to demand, to maintain a stronger, more stable dollar value.

4. Deregulation, which saved consumers an estimated $100 billion per year in lower prices. Reagan’s first executive order, in fact, eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%

I'd love to read some words that you compose yourself on how trickle down economics... tax breaks for the wealthy... results in job creation.
Cutting and pasting someone's version of history is a little bland for my taste. Many of us were living, working, paying bills and taxes during the Reagan years and beyond... dry Google stats... meh... what about that Warren Buffet quote. Care to opine on it without pausing for a Google power-up?

 

[FreedomWorks]

Reagan's economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.
During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

 

[timbo123]

Reagan's economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months.
During this seven-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third, the equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany, the third-largest in the world at the time, to the U.S. economy. In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years. Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.

OK... I get it. You know how to type "Reagan" into Google. I'm done. A re-run of the Golden Girls seems more interesting. Good night.

 

[FreedomWorks]

OK... I get it. You know how to type "Reagan" into Google. I'm done. A re-run of the Golden Girls seems more interesting. Good night.

Can't handle the truth?

 

[FreedomWorks]

What is so striking about Obamanomics is how it so doggedly pursues the opposite of every one of these planks of Reaganomics. Instead of reducing tax rates, President Obama is committed to raising the top tax rates of virtually every major federal tax. As already enacted into current law, in 2013 the top two income tax rates will rise by nearly 20%, counting as well Obama’s proposed deduction phase-outs.
The capital gains tax rate will soar by nearly 60%, counting the new Obamacare taxes going into effect that year. The total tax rate on corporate dividends would increase by nearly three times. The Medicare payroll tax would increase by 62% for the nation’s job creators and investors. The death tax rate would go back up to 55%. In his 2012 budget and his recent national budget speech, President Obama proposes still more tax increases.

Instead of coming into office with spending cuts, President Obama’s first act was a nearly $1 trillion stimulus bill. In his first two years in office he has already increased federal spending by 28%, and his 2012 budget proposes to increase federal spending by another 57% by 2021.
His monetary policy is just the opposite as well. Instead of restraining the money supply to match money demand for a stable dollar, slaying an historic inflation, we have QE1 and QE2 and a steadily collapsing dollar, arguably creating a historic reflation.

And instead of deregulation we have across-the-board re-regulation, from health care to finance to energy, and elsewhere. While Reagan used to say that his energy policy was to “unleash the private sector,” Obama’s energy policy can be described as precisely to leash the private sector in service to Obama’s central planning “green energy” dictates.

As a result, while the Reagan recovery averaged 7.1% economic growth over the first seven quarters, the Obama recovery has produced less than half that at 2.8%, with the last quarter at a dismal 1.8%. After seven quarters of the Reagan recovery, unemployment had fallen 3.3 percentage points from its peak to 7.5%, with only 18% unemployed long-term for 27 weeks or more. After seven quarters of the Obama recovery, unemployment has fallen only 1.3 percentage points from its peak, with a postwar record 45% long-term unemployed.

 

[UncleBuck]

hey everyone, falafelworks can use google! isn't this great?

 

[FreedomWorks]

hey everyone, falafelworks can use google! isn't this great?

As per timbo's request for info on Reaganomics. I even went a step further with how Obama is doing the exact opposite of what Reagan would do, and why Obama is a failure.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Can't handle the truth?

Dude, you have a serious problem with engagement. Even when someone asks politely your opinion, not a copy/paste from somewhere else, it's met with hostility.

Why is it so difficult to debate in a civil, adult manner?

You represent the same people you support and the manner in which you show your support reflects those individuals. What do you think you're doing for them by conducting yourself this way?

 

[FreedomWorks]

Dude, you have a serious problem with engagement. Even when someone asks politely your opinion, not a copy/paste from somewhere else, it's met with hostility.

Why is it so difficult to debate in a civil, adult manner?

You represent the same people you support and the manner in which you show your support reflects those individuals. What do you think you're doing for them by conducting yourself this way?

That was the most "hostile" post I've seen in this thread so far.^^^ I don't appreciate how you hold me to a higher standard, like I'm supposed to handle other people's concerns on demand. Are you getting all pissy because I've exposed the CRS on your thread?

 

[Canna Sylvan]

Doc,You been dusting off the crack pipe lately?Did you forget about Obama waging war without congressional approval?Clinton with:Kosovo,Bosnia/Herzcovina,Haiti,Croatia,Zaire,Liberia, Sudan,Albania,Yugoslavia and Yemen.But GOP loves the military? Seriously?