Red1966
Well-Known Member
Does that mean coal and oil are now renewable resources?
Global warming
- Thread starter Saltrock
- Start date
RyanTheRhino
Well-Known Member
Yes, just not in our life time
The issue with most global warming 'evidence' is that it comes from intentionally manipulated charts. Any chart starting in the 1800s is about as close to a lie as you can get. Almost every one of them starts in the 1800s.
Why should we care? Well, from about 1350 to 1850 there was a period known as the 'little ice age'. This was a historically cold period. As shown in the chart below, the temperature of the earth has fluctuated many times in the last 5,000 years.
If you change the focus and the length of your observation, you can make the charts say whatever you want. If my dog died Tuesday, and the neighbor mowed his yard Tuesday, I could easily make a chart showing that his mowing coincided with my dog dying. No reasonable person would accept the conclusion that his mowing caused my dog to die though(unless he was a mutilated bloody chopped up corpse). If you made a chart that showed the entire month, and you saw he mowed his yard 4 times that month then the correlation no longer exists. This is how AGW proponents intentionally fudge charts to show that mankind is the cause of global warming. This also is how they show CO2 causing global warming.
The chart below shows CO2 concentrations in correlation or lack thereof with temperature. Notice that it correlates about as well as two lines drawn by a 2 year old.
Note these two charts. The first is CO2 and the second is Temperature. They appear to correlate.
However, when you zoom out and look at the history of the earth you come up with a difference picture, the one from above that looks like a little kid drew on it. I think the most telling thing that all the charts show is that CO2 rises AFTER the temperature rises. Higher temperatures come before the higher CO2 all through history.
We know in the 1800s, BEFORE the industrial revolution was starting that the temperatures were already rising, and had little to nothing to do with mankind. We must then accept that the increase was at least partially natural. Even AGW proponents agree that up to 1940 it was mostly a natural warming of the earth. Given that we really don't understand what causes the hot and cold periods we so often see perfectly, is it so hard to believe that a significant portion of our current temperature is just the natural fluctuation of the earth?
Look at the blue part of the chart, note the 'current temperature' mark. Note the fairly even spacing between spikes of heat? It gets 4-5 degrees hotter than it is right now every 100k years give or take. It just so happens that we are around 100k years from the last heat snap. If we expect the pattern to repeat itself then we are looking at a plateau temperature very soon, a thousand years or so of even temperatures, and then a 10 or 15 degree drop. I hope it is obvious to everyone that the temperature of the earth is always changing rapidly and never remains the same.
They definitely are renewable. It is the timeline that no one likes.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
rome fell, and fell hard. it hit the edge and flopped over like a soiled mattress.
rome went through 4 distinct phases.
Early Rome: Ruled by kings who claimed lineage to Troy through Aeneas or through Romulus and Remus depending on which patricians you asked. eventually the kings of Rome were deposed by a revolution of the patrician houses.
Republican Rome: under the Republic, the Senate was the ruler of all Roman lands, and no crowned head was allowed within the Servian wall on pain of death. the Republic fell to Ceasar and the Boni.
Imperial Rome: the senate, now just a figurehead, is ruled by one powerful man with the authority of life and death for all within the empire. Rebellions are stamped out mercilessly, and only a small cadre of Republican loyalists still fight for the return of the senate.
Christian Rome: like all good things, christianity fucks Rome's shit up with a flaming chainsaw. the sacred constitution, the word of the emeror and even the sacred ideals of auctoritas, imperium and the cursus honorum now meant less than a puddle of plebian urine in the gutter outside the hovel of a saltatrix tonsa. all that mattered was the church and the church's power. Rome had fallen before but never so low.
Then Rome ceased to be Rome, the empire collapsed and the byzantine poseurs enthroned themselves in a shabby mockery of Roman splendour. nothing but diseased whores in the robes of patrician ladies. Byzantium was no more Roman than the Peoples Republic Of China is descended from Qin Sher Huang Di.
The climate change follows a routine more or less. We are pretty much a degree or so from top temperature and then bloop, into the hole.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Which is why these people that want to spend trillions to fight global warming make me crazy...
If they get their way the temp will drop and they will announce that they were right!! Grrr....
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
and this parallels US policies in what way?
and does this mean Rome was destroyed . . . lol
can anyone here actauly with a straight face parallel the roman empire with the US . . . and real points no splitting hairs(semantics)
global warming has not been proven . . its fairly obvious
still im much more worried about the acidification of our oceans . . .takes a lot longer to undo
Well alot of things led to Romes fall, but I always throw them all into the same "progress trap" that has ended every society man has ever created.
Ours will end someday, too. China has one the longest lasting societies ever created (longest perhaps?) because up until the last 50-60 years, they have never "progressed". They were the world leaders in many things, until the industrial age, and then for some reason everyone said they "fell behind".
Wait till they start consuming on the level of Americans, and you will see what I mean. They have been catching up over the years. Used to be they were wearing our used denim clothing....thats not good enough anymore.
Ours will end someday, too. China has one the longest lasting societies ever created (longest perhaps?) because up until the last 50-60 years, they have never "progressed". They were the world leaders in many things, until the industrial age, and then for some reason everyone said they "fell behind".
Wait till they start consuming on the level of Americans, and you will see what I mean. They have been catching up over the years. Used to be they were wearing our used denim clothing....thats not good enough anymore.
Samwell Seed Well
Well-Known Member
to prey on one facet of life or another as a precursor to a unavoidable event . .is well disingenuous and fool hearty as logical fallacy's will be abundant
everything returns to the earth
if you dont like it talk to gravity and OXYGEN, please no semantics . . im being plain and acute on purpose . . .life and civilization as we know it is meaningless and insignificant in the shadow of time
everything returns to the earth
if you dont like it talk to gravity and OXYGEN, please no semantics . . im being plain and acute on purpose . . .life and civilization as we know it is meaningless and insignificant in the shadow of time
Saltrock
Active Member
Hey guys, just got home smoked a bowl. I just can't get passed that humans don't contribute to climate change. Like I said I understand that the climate fluctuates naturally. But if C02 emissions that occur naturally warm the earth. Then why would man caused Co2 not have any effect. You notice that the north pole is melting at an alarming rate, animals losing their habitats. Seems that things that should happen over a long period of time are happening at a fast rate. You wonder why the north part of the hemisphere is melting a lot quicker then the southern. I think it is because most of the countries that have high co2 emissions are in the northern hemisphere.
One good point that a poster said was even if it was proven without a doubt, their is probably very little we could do. Because once we realize it, it will probably be too late. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it.
Peace
Salt
One good point that a poster said was even if it was proven without a doubt, their is probably very little we could do. Because once we realize it, it will probably be too late. That doesn't mean we can't discuss it.
Peace
Salt
Harrekin
Well-Known Member
Sea ice can melt all it wants, it already displaces all it's mass in the water.
Saltrock, you understand there's a certain maximum amount of carbon dioxide possible on a particular planet?
In its most basic form, look up the "carbon cycle". CO2 isn't really produced, its released.
Saltrock, you understand there's a certain maximum amount of carbon dioxide possible on a particular planet?
In its most basic form, look up the "carbon cycle". CO2 isn't really produced, its released.
You are presenting things as matter of fact to come to a conclusion you want.
The fact is this: CO2 rises AFTER the Temperature. CO2 rises 5-600 years after the temperature rises throughout history. This means that CO2 does not in fact cause the temperature swings, but the other way around. If you look at the charts I provided, you will see this. You will also see that there have been ice ages where the CO2 level was twice what it is now. The overall fact of this is... CO2 has not been the cause of temperature rising. The temperature rise started BEFORE CO2 levels started to spike historically, as well as our current temperature spike.
You can't compare what is happening to our meager history that we have on the planet. What we do know is that it has been hotter than this every cycle in the past. You can easily refer to the unmanipulated charts that I provided and see what I am saying. We might drop into an ice age in 10 years. The honest truth is that the scientists really have no idea what is going on, just like they didn't in the 70s.
I said that about CO2 earlier about CO2 and they acted silly.
There has been some discussion that melting ice is lowering the overall salinity of the oceans and that this could affect the gulf stream or cause it to stop altogether.
What really gets me is that even in our history we have evidence or spikes and drops in temperature that we don't understand, but automatically this spike is due to AGW. What did people who lived in the little ace age of a few hundred years ago think? Probably "Our sins are causing the temperatures to drop!"
brotherjericho
Well-Known Member
I did not realize that the earth was such a closed system. Your house analogy is bunk.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
that makes no sense.
chinese culture goes back 5000 years, but so does greek culture, uyghur culture, native american culture, celtic culture, nordic culture...
china's current political and social structure bear ZERO resemblance to the society of the hans. much less the early dynasties before confucius and buddhism. they got less in common with the han dynasty society from 2500 years ago, than the average rome dweller today does with a roman of the urbanus tribe around 2500 years ago.
rome fell not from progress, but from indolence. when the people stopped supporting the senate, ambitious men like gauis julius ceasar grabbed loose power left lying about. the US electorate is doing the same thing. especially on the local front where it matters most.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
"melting ice" is an illusion. polar ice (both poles) melt in their respective summer and re-freeze in their respective winters. sea levels remain fairly constant over normal spans of time due to the massive heat resevoir of the oceans, it takes hundreds of years of constant low temperatures freezing more in winter than melts in the summer to alter sea levels or the thermal and tidal currents. the sealevel dropped dramatically during the last major glaciation due to MASSIVE ice sheets expanding over north america, while the antarctic inland areas had NO water to freeze or melt. inland antarctica is the dryest place on earth. theres more water in death valley in the middle of summer than there is during the "rainy season" in antarctica's interior.
http://www.coolantarctica.com/gallery/travel/antarctica0024.html
further, remember iceage in the northern hemisphere means ZOMG!! GLOBAL WARMING!! in the southern, and vice versa. antarcica and the souther hemispher are in the middle of a 1000 year long cold snap.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/06/060627-ancient-seals.html
and yes during the little ice age they tried to pray the glaciers away. in switzerland theres official documents recording the various attempts to exorcise the demons of winter out of the glaciers as the crept closer and closer to various villages and towns.
RyanTheRhino
Well-Known Member
Julius Caesar was a populist and overthrew the senate to end the horrible corruption that kept the rich kings & the poor slaves. You cant over throw your government with the government's military unless you have their support. In today's terms he would be a tyrant because he illegally took complete control but he helped the citizens of Rome.
With out him there would be no merchants or "middle class". He made Rome the greatest power and fair culture in the world. The true tyrant emperors that took control after his assassination began the second rein of corruption that eventually lead to the fall of Rome.