Defoliation, Your thoughts?

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
hey there is still plenty o logic fro not using a lawnmower on yer G. / decent comeback nonetheless.

I think that it may be fair to say that to maximize this gnarly defol. method, a gardener would want to have a tight intensively managed type garden... the opposite of my usual m.o., that stands for modus operandi, yeeah.. yeeah..
You deflowering men take tha whole Brazilian Bikini Wax to another level.
 

sorethumb

Active Member
hey there is still plenty o logic fro not using a lawnmower on yer G. / decent comeback nonetheless.

I think that it may be fair to say that to maximize this gnarly defol. method, a gardener would want to have a tight intensively managed type garden... the opposite of my usual m.o., that stands for modus operandi, yeeah.. yeeah..
You deflowering men take tha whole Brazilian Bikini Wax to another level.
yeah i couldn't resist theres a limit to all these methods and thats with all aspects of growing
 

Huel Perkins

Well-Known Member
Tell me that not cutting any leaves off and surrounding the plants with more light wouldn't result in a better yield.
 

abe supercro

Well-Known Member
yes yield wood [sic] increase, yet u would have to add more light to the defoli. room as well to have a s....tific study.


~man it's easy for me to get off topic,
 

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
Ahh the internet; where rational people go to be totally irrational! A) there are tons of silly techniques that seem like they won't work and in fact do not work on some plants. B) there are way to many variations of plants to say this works for sure every time or that doesn't work at all ever.
 

Uncle Pirate

Active Member
Some plants get nice nugs all the way to the bottom without the need for a whole lot of light/air circulation. Most plants need that light/circulation on the bottom or they won't produce. Partial defoliation works great in those situations. I tie down and re-position fan leaves as much as I can, but some strains have some really big fan leaves that cast a major shadow on everything below and have to be removed. I don't support going crazy and stripping the plant bald, but sometimes removal of certain leaves is necessary for me.
 

sorethumb

Active Member
i notice some ppl keep saying add more lights and that you cant have enough light. yeah who's paying for the power mom and dad cause it ain't cheap im grower to save myself money i don't grow 20 30 plants looking for a major case so if its for personal how would running up the electric bill be better . then using what little light you got to your advantage idk .
 

Huel Perkins

Well-Known Member
Yes if you added so many lights that your entire plant was receiving direct light you would not need to defoliate.
That's exactly my point! This is why i brought up outdoor growing earlier too, unlike the light from the sun our indoor lighting loses a substantial amount of it's intensity the further away from the plant it is. Also unlike the light from the sun, our lights are stationary and shine down at our buds from the same angle everyday. This is why outdoor plants get full dense buds top to bottom, they get full light intensity over the whole plant (not just the top) and the angle at which the light hits the plant changes every minute of the day. These are the aspects of mother nature we need to try to replicate to get full dense buds top to bottom.

I already said in this thread that i used to practice the defoliation method, and i did so for years. I completely understand the impact it has and why people choose to do it. I also understand that leaves are the most important part of the plant because leaves are what drives the growth of the buds and the entire plant for that matter. The whole reason our plants need water, light and CO2 is because they are absolutely essential for photosynthesis to happen. Photosynthesis is what drives all plant growth, including buds. Everything we do to our plants to attempt to improve growth such as better lighting, good nutes, plenty of water, CO2 enrichment, perfect temps, ect is all to speed up the rate of photosynthesis and nothing more. All of this photosynthesis happens in the leaves of the plant and any time you remove healthy leaves you hinder photosynthesis and plant growth altogether.

I know plants have the ability to lose some leaves and still remain strong and that defoliation to let direct light to hit lower buds to improve their growth does in fact work but there is a cost. Its just like the saying rob Peter to pay Paul, you're making a sacrifice in one area to improve another...

This is the reason for the last year, I've stopped chopping leaves and instead been adding side lighting in the form of cfl bulbs in addition to my hid lighting. Some free hanging cfl's hung right down into the canopy between plants add light intensity to lower bud sites and allow light to hit bud sites from multiple angles much more accurately mimicking mother nature than a single over head light.

i notice some ppl keep saying add more lights and that you cant have enough light. yeah who's paying for the power mom and dad cause it ain't cheap im grower to save myself money i don't grow 20 30 plants looking for a major case so if its for personal how would running up the electric bill be better . then using what little light you got to your advantage idk .
If you can't afford your bills then you shouldn't be growing in the first place. Adding a couple hundred watts of light should equate to a few more ounces of bud. So if growing for yourself in the first place is cost effective for you, then adding more light should be as well.
 

sorethumb

Active Member
That's exactly my point! This is why i brought up outdoor growing earlier too, unlike the light from the sun our indoor lighting loses a substantial amount of it's intensity the further away from the plant it is. Also unlike the light from the sun, our lights are stationary and shine down at our buds from the same angle everyday. This is why outdoor plants get full dense buds top to bottom, they get full light intensity over the whole plant (not just the top) and the angle at which the light hits the plant changes every minute of the day. These are the aspects of mother nature we need to try to replicate to get full dense buds top to bottom.

I already said in this thread that i used to practice the defoliation method, and i did so for years. I completely understand the impact it has and why people choose to do it. I also understand that leaves are the most important part of the plant because leaves are what drives the growth of the buds and the entire plant for that matter. The whole reason our plants need water, light and CO2 is because they are absolutely essential for photosynthesis to happen. Photosynthesis is what drives all plant growth, including buds. Everything we do to our plants to attempt to improve growth such as better lighting, good nutes, plenty of water, CO2 enrichment, perfect temps, ect is all to speed up the rate of photosynthesis and nothing more. All of this photosynthesis happens in the leaves of the plant and any time you remove healthy leaves you hinder photosynthesis and plant growth altogether.

I know plants have the ability to lose some leaves and still remain strong and that defoliation to let direct light to hit lower buds to improve their growth does in fact work but there is a cost. Its just like the saying rob Peter to pay Paul, you're making a sacrifice in one area to improve another...

This is the reason for the last year, I've stopped chopping leaves and instead been adding side lighting in the form of cfl bulbs in addition to my hid lighting. Some free hanging cfl's hung right down into the canopy between plants add light intensity to lower bud sites and allow light to hit bud sites from multiple angles much more accurately mimicking mother nature than a single over head light.



If you can't afford your bills then you shouldn't be growing in the first place. Adding a couple hundred watts of light should equate to a few more ounces of bud. So if growing for yourself in the first place is cost effective for you, then adding more light should be as well.
well i struck a nerve does your parents know what your really doing im sure they need there money its not cheap raiseing freeloaders .
 

sorethumb

Active Member
this is btw completly wrong you can have too much light look it up but this is why the sun only is 10,000k at the equator at noon theres already a thread about it. good read
 

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
I remember a helpful picture in a grow book of an old style oak barell with nutrients, oxygeon light etc written on each slat. without one slat it won't hold water. The pieces have to fit, in proportion for the barel to hold water was the authors point. Too much and too little are both problems for any one slat. You can give it too much of anything or too little as well. its a balance. A balanced aproach should be taken when you defoliate.
 

Huel Perkins

Well-Known Member
Its extremely hard to pack enough light into a room to cause any significant amount of leaf bleaching. Its usually only possible when leaves are within a couple inches of a high power bulb for weeks on end, as long as your plants 10"+ from your bulb its not going to happen. I know growers pushing 80 watts per square foot of HID lighting in their gardens without bleaching a single leaf. I've only seen light bleaching one time in all of my grows and that was when I had a bud that was within 4" of a 1000w HPS for about 10 weeks and only a couple of the little leaf shoots coming out of the bud were bleached, the rest of the plant and garden was fine.
 

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Bleaching can start much faster than that depending on the lamp. I had a 600W HPS Hort lamp and promo digital ballast and never had any probs in my current height-restricted room. Then I switched to an Ushio lamp and MicroMole ballast. Still 600W, but have had light bleaching on both grows since. The Ushio is pumping it out big time. I have two light meters (only use the nice digital one) and bleaching will start within 10" of that lamp in just a few days. Maybe a week. As I said, light to a leaf in excess of 1200FC will bleach it.

Heat is monitored and controlled and does not exceed 82 at canopy. No nute deficiencies. It's light bleaching.
 

Uncle Pirate

Active Member
I've noticed certain strains being more sensitive to high lumens and bleaching slightly, whereas a different strain right next to it shows no symptoms at all.
 

Huel Perkins

Well-Known Member
Just for an example, here is a pic of my bud that was actually light bleached that i mentioned in my last post. A few of the leaf shoots at the top of the bud were actually bleached bright white but not burned and are otherwise still alive and growing...

 
Top