Which of these strains should I grow?

[Jogro]

Not really into wannabe's, at the moment I want to go with more originals with non "watered down" genetics from proven breeders with good reps so I've decided to spend the extra money on them(Except Jack Herer, which I'm going to wait on). Seems like the smart thing to do being a newbie to the seed buying business or hobby for some. I'm sure I'll be open to trying different strains and breeders on down the road.

Well, I certainly see your point about avoiding the wannabes, but just to be clear here, a lot of people in a position to know think Sannies Jack Herer is the best one out there, as good as Sensi's, if not actually BETTER.

In fact, supposedly Sensi lost all its original genetics, and had to recreate its Jack from scratch a few years back. So in some sense, it may be Sensi that has the "watered down" version, with Sannie the authentic one.

Sannie himself enjoys one of the best reputations in the "ceed" (heh!) game in terms of quality and business reputation. He breeds and sells all the ceeds himself, cutting out the middlemen, and that's why his ceeds are so cheap.

FWIW, Sannie's current JH is an F7, and he claims its to the point where the line is virtually inbreeding.

I haven't grown this one yet, but its on my "short list".

 

[OGEvilgenius]

i really respect your decision to only want to run the real deal holyfields as i feel too many people just right in the bean game and have no clue as to who was the og breeder for this or that and simply buy the cheapest beans out there..
saying that though, sannie's far from a hack and his genetics are far from watered down.. he simply started out with the real deal jack herer and has since worked his jack down to like an f5 or an f6 by now, which means it's going to be an extremely uniform plant with lil variety between say a 10 pack..
i'm not trying to swing your vote for the og jack herer as again i applaud your wanting to stick to the real breeders of things, just wanted to let you know more that sannie and krew are some of the best in the seed business is all.. very cheap gear as well when compared to a lot of breeders, and in their case, cheap don't mean cheap..

It's actually F7, which most would consider IBL, but apparently he's gonna do one more to make it completely stable. It's a very very very long term project he's taken and most consider his Jack to be the best Jack you can buy. Now you could probably buy a pack of Sensi and find something special too, but it will probably be a lot more challenging (and expensive).

I too respect the decision to go with the originals, but there has been some question about Sensi's quality for a while now (whether they even have the mother/father plants for some varieties anymore). Now that could be BS, but I know that they are not who I immediately think of when I think that I want OG old school varieties. MNS is the go to for that.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

you ever grow that nl x haze ogevil?? it's one i've been interested in for years as you can't get much more solid in the genetics than that imo, but for w/e reason i have yet to try it..

Not yet, but I've read too many good things about it. It's kind of legendary. I have a pack I bought from his auction. They are likely next in the ground for me. Those, Critical Mass & (Bright Moments by GGG, Tahoe OG CC or Beyond the Brain by Mandala).

I am looking for around 6 moms so I can keep myself diverse.

I have Killing Fields & Herijuana moms up island as well some Purple Kush, Romulan and a bunch of other shit I can get whenever, but most of it doesn't blow me away. The Killing Fields is outstanding. I need it back. The Purple Kush is a PM magnet and I don't know if there are many healthy cuts around - it's nice if you can get it under control and do it proper. But fuck i'm tired of it.

 

[m420p]

https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/417851-tahoe-og-d-c-smoke.html

Wow, I'm still drooling lol, I've definitely seen and grown bigger buds(NL, not sure which one) but haven't grown any or seen many with that dense of THC crystals. They extend all the way out to the ends of the single bud leaves and cover those fan leaves pretty far up from the base. I'd like to think I could get them to grow bigger with a 1000 watt since he was using 3 600's. Definitely eye candy, just wish I could smoke it... lol. Will just have to pick up some seeds. Thanks for sharing the link

 

[racerboy71]

It's actually F7, which most would consider IBL, but apparently he's gonna do one more to make it completely stable. It's a very very very long term project he's taken and most consider his Jack to be the best Jack you can buy. Now you could probably buy a pack of Sensi and find something special too, but it will probably be a lot more challenging (and expensive).

I too respect the decision to go with the originals, but there has been some question about Sensi's quality for a while now (whether they even have the mother/father plants for some varieties anymore). Now that could be BS, but I know that they are not who I immediately think of when I think that I want OG old school varieties. MNS is the go to for that.

nice, i hadn't realized it went all the way to 7 just yet although i knew it was pretty far down the line..

 

[racerboy71]

Wow, I'm still drooling lol, I've definitely seen and grown bigger buds(NL, not sure which one) but haven't grown any or seen many with that dense of THC crystals. They extend all the way out to the ends of the single bud leaves and cover those fan leaves pretty far up from the base. I'd like to think I could get them to grow bigger with a 1000 watt since he was using 3 600's. Definitely eye candy, just wish I could smoke it... lol. Will just have to pick up some seeds. Thanks for sharing the link

yeah, the skunk munkey can grow his monkey ass off.. i miss seeing him and his epic grow / smoke reports around the site.. i still see him from time to time around the interwebs, but nothing like when he was active on here.. he's good dude..

 

[m420p]

Well, I certainly see your point about avoiding the wannabes, but just to be clear here, a lot of people in a position to know think Sannies Jack Herer is the best one out there, as good as Sensi's, if not actually BETTER.

In fact, supposedly Sensi lost all its original genetics, and had to recreate its Jack from scratch a few years back. So in some sense, it may be Sensi that has the "watered down" version, with Sannie the authentic one.

Sannie himself enjoys one of the best reputations in the "ceed" (heh!) game in terms of quality and business reputation. He breeds and sells all the ceeds himself, cutting out the middlemen, and that's why his ceeds are so cheap.

FWIW, Sannie's current JH is an F7, and he claims its to the point where the line is virtually inbreeding.

I haven't grown this one yet, but its on my "short list".

Well its pretty obvious he has a good rep so I will definitely keep him in mind and look into his JH.

 

[racerboy71]

Well its pretty obvious he has a good rep so I will definitely keep him in mind and look into his JH.

i loved me some chocolate rain breed by e$kob@r and for sale over at sannies site.. it's dna's chocolope x dj shorts cocoa kush and it's all bomb, all the way, lol...

 

[m420p]

Sannies version is better than Sensi's by most accounts. He's not a wannabe. He's a fuckin pimp who might have the best service reputation in the entire game. He resends orders without even asking questions. Who does that?

Again, I didn't mean anything bad about Sannie, I can see how what I said can be interpreted that way pretty easily, what I meant is I don't have any experience with breeders so I would stick to very reputable breeders, which I now know Sannie is. I guess I'm glad I said that cause you guys jumped to defend him, so now I know he's good. lol

 

[m420p]

"FWIW, Sannie's current JH is an F7, and he claims its to the point where the line is virtually inbreeding. "

Okay, translate this for a newbie to seeds and breeding. I have read Sannies JH description on his website but I really don't get how it works. What does F 7 mean, Does it have any of the genetics from the original JH strain? I'm just confused on how this works... any help lol

 

[racerboy71]

"FWIW, Sannie's current JH is an F7, and he claims its to the point where the line is virtually inbreeding. "

Okay, translate this for a newbie to seeds and breeding. I have read Sannies JH description on his website but I really don't get how it works. What does F 7 mean, Does it have any of the genetics from the original JH strain? I'm just confused on how this works... any help lol

ok, lets say we're making our own new strain.. hmm, let's see.. i want to cross the tahoe og x gdp's for our little example.. i take the pollen from the gdps and use it to make seeds on the tahoe og... i grow out the new seeds making a new strain all together.. this would be called an f1, or fillial generation.. it's how far away from the original parent stock we are in the cross, so this being the first x, we're only at the first generation of offspring..
we now grow out the f1's, find a new male and female looking for what ever characteristics we like, lets say potency and flavor.. we find the best mom that fits our standards and the best dad that fits our standards out of the f1's.. we then cross the new mom and new dad and get an f2..
the further down the line, the more and more the plants are going to resemble w/e we were originally looking for so long as we bred true and had a clue as to wtf we were looking for.. the further down the line, the more and more the plants are all going to look alike, no more one tall plant with no potency, one short plant with killer potency, one green plant, one orange one, etc, etc.. this is why i'm not a fan of say subcool's work as he breeds lots of new strains but never seems to work them down the f generation much further than f1's from what i see.. this means you can crack a pack of 10 beans from subcool/ tga, and get ten very different looking plants.. i don't know how many pheno's of his plushberry i've seen..
this can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.. it could mean that you could end up finding something very unique out of say 100 beans, a true one of a kind that has what you're looking for.. on the other hand, it took you 100 beans to find what you had thought would be fairly common among those genetics.. it also means that you grew 99 plants that you weren't probably very happy with to find that 1 special girl..
it's also said that if you take any marijuana plant to an f7 generation, the plant is considered an inbred line, which just means that it's going to be very stable for the most part, not too many surprises in a pack, you pretty much know that they're all going to be very stable, each showing the same characteristics of the next..
it must be said that a lot of gear out today isn't much more of an f1 cross, and depending on how stable the parents were, you could possible end up with either all of the best genetics from both parents, or the worst of both.. the further you go down the line, you keep picking out the best genetics so the next line of offspring are closer to what you're truly after..
hope that makes some sense..

 

[m420p]

ok, lets say we're making our own new strain.. hmm, let's see.. i want to cross the tahoe og x gdp's for our little example.. i take the pollen from the gdps and use it to make seeds on the tahoe og... i grow out the new seeds making a new strain all together.. this would be called an f1, or fillial generation.. it's how far away from the original parent stock we are in the cross, so this being the first x, we're only at the first generation of offspring..
we now grow out the f1's, find a new male and female looking for what ever characteristics we like, lets say potency and flavor.. we find the best mom that fits our standards and the best dad that fits our standards out of the f1's.. we then cross the new mom and new dad and get an f2..
the further down the line, the more and more the plants are going to resemble w/e we were originally looking for so long as we bred true and had a clue as to wtf we were looking for.. the further down the line, the more and more the plants are all going to look alike, no more one tall plant with no potency, one short plant with killer potency, one green plant, one orange one, etc, etc.. this is why i'm not a fan of say subcool's work as he breeds lots of new strains but never seems to work them down the f generation much further than f1's from what i see.. this means you can crack a pack of 10 beans from subcool/ tga, and get ten very different looking plants.. i don't know how many pheno's of his plushberry i've seen..
this can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you look at it.. it could mean that you could end up finding something very unique out of say 100 beans, a true one of a kind that has what you're looking for.. on the other hand, it took you 100 beans to find what you had thought would be fairly common among those genetics.. it also means that you grew 99 plants that you weren't probably very happy with to find that 1 special girl..
it's also said that if you take any marijuana plant to an f7 generation, the plant is considered an inbred line, which just means that it's going to be very stable for the most part, not too many surprises in a pack, you pretty much know that they're all going to be very stable, each showing the same characteristics of the next..
it must be said that a lot of gear out today isn't much more of an f1 cross, and depending on how stable the parents were, you could possible end up with either all of the best genetics from both parents, or the worst of both.. the further you go down the line, you keep picking out the best genetics so the next line of offspring are closer to what you're truly after..
hope that makes some sense..

That makes complete sense, thanks for explaining that. So did Sannie start out by crossing the same strains that were crossed originally for the original JH, Skunk #1, Haze, and NL # 5? or did he use the original JH or use other strains that resembled JH? I don't get that part for his Jack Herer.

 

[racerboy71]

That makes complete sense, thanks for explaining that. So did Sannie start out by crossing the same strains that were crossed originally for the original JH, Skunk #1, Haze, and NL # 5? or did he use the original JH or use other strains that resembled JH? I don't get that part for his Jack Herer.

i'm about 99% positive that he simply started out with a pack of sensi's jack herer and worked from there.. i'm not sure how many beans of the og jack herer that he used to make his selections from, but i'd guess more than 100 or so plants to pick out the breeders..
that's another thing, when breeding, you really want to run as many plants as you can to try and figure out what is dominate and what is not..

 

[m420p]

At a little over 50 dollars for ten seeds on his website, there's no way I can turn that down. Thanks for letting me know about his JH, I think I'm going to give it a go.
But No Lie, This was my reaction to Sannies Pictures of his Jack Herer F7 on his website:

 

[racerboy71]

also, it's not very often that people would just use the same two plants that were used to make a cross and try to replicate it or we really wouldn't have such things as clone only's..
there is a lot of work going into picking out exactly which plant gets used for the mom and dad side of things.. there may have been one or two plants that they only found after years of growing the same seeds that really stood out head and shoulders above the rest, and those are what were used to make the new strain..
so unless you know exactly what genetype, this basically means what genes were expressed in a certain offspring, than you would never probably get any where near what the original breeders got or if you did, it could take years and years and years..

basically, it would be like your parents trying to have sex again and get an exact copy of you.. obviously you came from the same genetics, but the chances of things lining up exactly as they did when you were born are a pretty long shot to say the least..

plants and people are basically the same when you think about breeding for the most part imo..

 

[hazey grapes]

I'm more of a sativa guy as well, and would like to stick with original breeders and strains since this is the first time I'm growing from bought seeds. I probably won't go with Jack this cycle because I can't spend THAT much on seeds at the moment considering I am getting one or two other strains but it is definitely top on my list for next cycle.
&
Mr. Nice Super Silver Haze

huh? SSH is $160 and sannie's jack f7 is just $50. that's $110 cheaper minus shipping charges. if you went with that, you'd SAVE money. if super silver is really what you want, go for it, but jack herer will be more haze dominant, and SSH will be stonier, so you're paying more for what you say you don't want as much. i'm missing the "logic". unless mr. nice has selected his SSH for haze phenos and sannies selected for NL5 in his jack, the jack f7 should get you higher and be more sativa. that's the difference between the two strains and they were LITERALLY bred from the same exact parents, just with different breeding orders. definitely get what you want though.

One strain have always wanted to try is "white widow." Now that I've been doing some research I see threads and post about how "white widow is one of the most overrated strains."

i was going suggest against getting any white strain. they're only bred for resin content and have a reputation for no flavor and even smoking harsh. OG kush is going to taste better at the very least. people used to really go nuts for that strain before it was sold as seeds paying insane amounts for it. there has to be some reason. i've only smoked blue widow as far as white strains go, and wasn't any more impressed with it that blueberry. you can get really nice flavors out of indica dominants, but white & black strains are just one trick ponies... potency & big resin glands.

 

[calicat]

So your saying they only produce feminized seeds these days and the only way I could grow G-13 Haze is to get feminized seeds? I've never found a seed in weed I have grown indoors, it would be a shame to get a herm and find seeds. Can you just cut off the male parts of herm if you watch your plants closely? I do have nute spikes in bloom right before I refill my res. on occasion so that worries me it might herm a plant from a feminized seed.

I did see that Liberty Haze was pretty popular at the moment, might have to put that on the list for future grows. Thanks for the luck.
edit: After checking it out it's hard not to like Barney's description:

Cannabis Cup Winner 2011!!!



Liberty haze is a cross of G13 male with a fast flowering Chem Dawg 91. Liberty Haze has both Indica and sativa characteristics with one perfect talent.- a fast flowering time. (8 to 9 weeks). A medium tall plant with substantial girth and big fat calyxes, she performs excellently in both indoor and outdoor environments. Long dense cola’s start to really fatten up in the last three weeks with dense trichome production with beautiful contrasting red and purple hairs. The Liberty Haze buzz is immediate and long lasting with an alert and euphoric cerebral effect.
Has a distinct and refreshing lime taste and fragrance.
Lab tests have rated the THC content at up to 25 percent

What I was referring to if you wanted to try out Barney's gear they only make feminized seeds for sale. There are many other companies that have g-13 haze and probably better genetically speaking. In terms of cutting of the nanners sometimes its difficult to keep lopping them off because they are like hydras cut one off two come back in its place. If you breed then you could isolate the plant and collect the pollen for future breeding projects. Don't agree with the descrition Barney's gives because eventhough I got 7 chem dog 91' phenotypes I will be harvesting after 70 days flowering time and the flower formation is slow with a burst at the last three weeks. It does have a lime funk smell though. It will be a good christmas gift for me and my family .

 

[m420p]

Sannies version is better than Sensi's by most accounts. He's not a wannabe. He's a fuckin pimp who might have the best service reputation in the entire game. He resends orders without even asking questions. Who does that?

From what I see, you must pay the 20 dollars shipping for him to gauantee it, if you pick the 5+ dollar shipping it says no reshipping if lost in mail.

 

[racerboy71]

From what I see, you must pay the 20 dollars shipping for him to gauantee it, if you pick the 5+ dollar shipping it says no reshipping if lost in mail.

f$ck man, i just had a great reply and just erased it all, eff me, lol...

but yah, sannie just put the $20 thing up to do tracked shipping as too many people were scamming him and saying their gear never showed..
i'm too pissed to get into the rest of it though, lol..

 

[Jogro]

"FWIW, Sannie's current JH is an F7, and he claims its to the point where the line is virtually inbreeding. "

Okay, translate this for a newbie to seeds and breeding. I have read Sannies JH description on his website but I really don't get how it works. What does F 7 mean, Does it have any of the genetics from the original JH strain? I'm just confused on how this works... any help lol

Sure. I think I can make this pretty simple.

If you take two parents and cross them, using normal genetics terminology, the offspring are called the F1 ("familial") generation.

Cross two F1 plants and you get F2s. Cross two F2s, you get F3s, etc

Sannie's F7 is the result of seven generations of crosses, starting with original Sensi Seeds Jack Herer ten years ago, and doing extensive selection each generation to try and retain the best flavor, potency, and yield.

If you want a Jack Herer strain, I don't think you'll go wrong with this one.