BigBudBalls
Well-Known Member
True. but ice mushrooms?
VEG:18 20 24 hour? someone convince me!
- Thread starter royalewithcheese40
- Start date
Alto
Well-Known Member
heh Ice mushrooms (got any?)
as far as the natural selection theories go I totally agree.
Indica grows more horizontally to capture the smaller amount of available light and has wide fat leaves for the same reason.
And spot on with the flowering time being it has a shorter amount of time to reproduce.
Sativa of course is opposite growing thinner leaves and taller to present a much smaller profile to that hot equatorial sun.
How long did this take to develop in the wild? Since the plant evolved from something else I would guess, and it is still going on.
How fast do they adapt? That would take many many generations in the wild.
What they do as breeders is actually an artificial natural selection. Taking the strongest plants with the characteristics they prefer to enhance they skip countless generations that would be needed in a "natural" setting. Back crossing to stabilize the new strain also would serve to reinforce the desired genetic characteristics and skip more generations that would be undoubtedly needed in a natural setting.
I think that nature being a lot smarter than just changing on a whim actually is protecting the species by doing things in a more long drawn out fashion. Environmental conditions can change from year to year but the big picture is that climate does not. (that is of course until we oil hungry humans came on the scene) If they were to "evolve" in a short time, say to added moisture over a several year period, they would become dependent on this added moisture and should a subsequent year produce drought an entire strain or even a species could falter or even become extinct. What they do is adapt on a more short term basis. Not actually "evolving" as such, so they would still be prepared for the next change in their environment. Of course plants that cannot keep up with these adaptations would be lost and over the course of years they would evolve to climate changes. Seed is spread throughout the planet in various ways. If say a Indica seed found itself germinating in a more tropical climate this more short term ability would allow it to adapt to the new and different climate. But for the subsequent generations to actually evolve producing more Sativa like characteristics like thinner leaves and a taller stature it would take a lot more time. It could get help in this by being fertilized by local plants and hybridize but left to itself it would be quite some time.
I would have to guess that it takes a long, long time, but for good reason.
This of course would be under a non controlled situation in a wild environment and in a situation where there was intervention on a genetic level such as purposefully cross breeding it could happen a lot faster even in just a few generations. but that kinda takes the natural out of the "Natural Selection" now doesn't it?
To get back on point I would have to say, 18/6 lighting would .... Oh crap I forgot....
as far as the natural selection theories go I totally agree.
Indica grows more horizontally to capture the smaller amount of available light and has wide fat leaves for the same reason.
And spot on with the flowering time being it has a shorter amount of time to reproduce.
Sativa of course is opposite growing thinner leaves and taller to present a much smaller profile to that hot equatorial sun.
How long did this take to develop in the wild? Since the plant evolved from something else I would guess, and it is still going on.
How fast do they adapt? That would take many many generations in the wild.
What they do as breeders is actually an artificial natural selection. Taking the strongest plants with the characteristics they prefer to enhance they skip countless generations that would be needed in a "natural" setting. Back crossing to stabilize the new strain also would serve to reinforce the desired genetic characteristics and skip more generations that would be undoubtedly needed in a natural setting.
I think that nature being a lot smarter than just changing on a whim actually is protecting the species by doing things in a more long drawn out fashion. Environmental conditions can change from year to year but the big picture is that climate does not. (that is of course until we oil hungry humans came on the scene) If they were to "evolve" in a short time, say to added moisture over a several year period, they would become dependent on this added moisture and should a subsequent year produce drought an entire strain or even a species could falter or even become extinct. What they do is adapt on a more short term basis. Not actually "evolving" as such, so they would still be prepared for the next change in their environment. Of course plants that cannot keep up with these adaptations would be lost and over the course of years they would evolve to climate changes. Seed is spread throughout the planet in various ways. If say a Indica seed found itself germinating in a more tropical climate this more short term ability would allow it to adapt to the new and different climate. But for the subsequent generations to actually evolve producing more Sativa like characteristics like thinner leaves and a taller stature it would take a lot more time. It could get help in this by being fertilized by local plants and hybridize but left to itself it would be quite some time.
I would have to guess that it takes a long, long time, but for good reason.
This of course would be under a non controlled situation in a wild environment and in a situation where there was intervention on a genetic level such as purposefully cross breeding it could happen a lot faster even in just a few generations. but that kinda takes the natural out of the "Natural Selection" now doesn't it?
To get back on point I would have to say, 18/6 lighting would .... Oh crap I forgot....
chuckbane
New Member
alto knows his shit.. i did some research on the natural selection and evolution of the cannabis plant and he is spot on. In nature it could take thousands of years for the plant to alter its' gene pool,,, so dont wait up... we might all want to change to 18/6 or 20/4 at the most,, its what the plant remembers from before it was even born 
email468
Well-Known Member
it is relatively simple to speed up evolution. People do it with dogs, cats, cattle and all kinds of plants including marijuana all the time.alto knows his shit.. i did some research on the natural selection and evolution of the cannabis plant and he is spot on. In nature it could take thousands of years for the plant to alter its' gene pool,,, so dont wait up... we might all want to change to 18/6 or 20/4 at the most,, its what the plant remembers from before it was even born
Selective breeding is evolution through human-induced, rather than natural selection.
We could probably breed a plant that loves 24/0 of light within a few years - you just have to find a plant with the desirable characteristics and breed them with other plants with similar desirable characteristics. This is how all the different strains are made. It's not like white widow, strawberry cough or even Northern Lights occurs in the wild (well it might now that the strains exist).
email468
Well-Known Member
thank you. i love reading about natural selection and evolution. with rapid environmental changes comes swift adaption or extinction. with enough adaption you get speciation.
Alto
Well-Known Member
Yes it will!
I switched from 24/0 to 18/6 and my plants started to grow a lot faster.
But I should note that the nodes stayed about the same (nice and close)
I think the plants put the 6 hrs of dark to good use.
chuckbane
New Member
somebody hadd to go and post this.. im going to snap! lol
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/71427-18-hour-12-6-cycles.html#post818721
anyones thoughts?
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/71427-18-hour-12-6-cycles.html#post818721
anyones thoughts?
omg how stressful is this site,
its the blind leading the blind
glad i'm not a newbie learning, i would be fucked here now, at least back in the day i had some people who knew shit to lead the way, i only read 3 pages of this and was like wtf wtf wtf, theres far too many idiots in the world, and most of them have been on this thread.
24/0 creates more males,
18/6 costs less on electric
where do you people get this bullshit
people who don't know anything should listen and learn and stop giving advice.
I want my old handle back, i'd be a god here now
its the blind leading the blind
glad i'm not a newbie learning, i would be fucked here now, at least back in the day i had some people who knew shit to lead the way, i only read 3 pages of this and was like wtf wtf wtf, theres far too many idiots in the world, and most of them have been on this thread.
24/0 creates more males,
18/6 costs less on electric
where do you people get this bullshit
people who don't know anything should listen and learn and stop giving advice.
I want my old handle back, i'd be a god here now
Alto
Well-Known Member
FALSE - It may create more chance of hermies but sex in plants is determined when sperm (pollen) fertilizes egg (seed)
Thats a fact of science, all other "observations" are wives tales.
TRUE!
Science class, they have them in schools.
Maybe, I bet you had a lot of good grows.
But like they say, "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while"
Dispute all you want, then google some biology and learn.
Some things people do may work out for them.
But the facts don't change, and you can't justify your opinion because you tend to get lucky.
The cycles built into the chemistry of plants (all plants for the most part) require a period of dark during growth.
Sex is determined at the pairing of sperm and egg (pollen spore and seed)
at a chromosomal level and nothing else can affect it.
I may be on my first actual "grow" but I have been around plants all my life in greenhouses and farms
I have learned a lot from oldtimers who know nothing of science but do know what worked for them
Still to say that temperature or a light cycle will change the genes of a plant is just silly.
BlessAmerica
Well-Known Member
Hey RoyalwithCheese (Pulp Fiction fan?),
For anyone who is knowledgeable about biology, then you will know that all plants need a dark cycle, this is needed in order to respire. The light cycle converts H2O+CO2+Solar Energy=Gluecose (Byproduct of O2), the night cycle converts the gluecose into ATP which is then used by the plant for energy to grow. While many people use and swear by 24/0, it is not the healthiest method for the plant. The plant can obviously still convert gluecose into ATP during light, but it isn't as efficient as when in the dark cycle.
Genetics is what predetermines the sex of a plant, that and nothing else. You can stress a marijuana plant easily, and turn it into a hermaphridite. But it is still a male or female.
People do have valid points behind 24/0. I have tried it. You do get a more compact plant, but in my opinion, the plant is smaller than with 18/6. BUT, the growth IS faster with 24. Does that make sense??? It grows faster on 24/0 to an extent then slows down, 18/6 is an exponenetial growth, just takes longer.
I hope this helped you some. Remember these too are just my opinions, and I am the first to state that I am NO PRO. Good luck, keep us updated, be smart!
For anyone who is knowledgeable about biology, then you will know that all plants need a dark cycle, this is needed in order to respire. The light cycle converts H2O+CO2+Solar Energy=Gluecose (Byproduct of O2), the night cycle converts the gluecose into ATP which is then used by the plant for energy to grow. While many people use and swear by 24/0, it is not the healthiest method for the plant. The plant can obviously still convert gluecose into ATP during light, but it isn't as efficient as when in the dark cycle.
Genetics is what predetermines the sex of a plant, that and nothing else. You can stress a marijuana plant easily, and turn it into a hermaphridite. But it is still a male or female.
People do have valid points behind 24/0. I have tried it. You do get a more compact plant, but in my opinion, the plant is smaller than with 18/6. BUT, the growth IS faster with 24. Does that make sense??? It grows faster on 24/0 to an extent then slows down, 18/6 is an exponenetial growth, just takes longer.
I hope this helped you some. Remember these too are just my opinions, and I am the first to state that I am NO PRO. Good luck, keep us updated, be smart!
Alto
Well-Known Member
There is no argument
do some research
General Plant Biology
Or as in sex determination in plants
Plant sex determination and sex chromosomes
Sex determination in flowering plants.
Sex-Determining Mechanisms in Land Plants -- Tanurdzic and Banks 16 (Supplement 1): S61 -- THE PLANT CELL
or if you want something more specific to the plants we all enjoy growing theres
Journal of Heredity -- [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]VALUE OF THE HEMP PLANT FOR INVESTIGATING SEX INHERITANCE:[/FONT]
Please if your criticism is for the benefit of first time growers or those starting out don't you think that some sound science would benefit them more?
I doubt the professors at major universities are in collusion with me to destroy the grows of the readers here.
I was, and am only trying to help those that don't know these things
You sir are calling me a liar (e.g "bullshit")and so I show you where these facts were found.
If you have some sound reason why you think that, simply state your opinions like the rest here have done.
To state this is all "bullshit" without information that disputes it is not helping anyone.
I do not disagree with your right to your opinion.
And you are right, there is no need for unsupported argument.
Alto
Well-Known Member
your right Eddie
I guess you got me when you questioned my integrity.
I grew before, but then I had even less of an idea what I was doing.
(that was over 30 years ago when I was a kid)
I studied since, and like to think I am doing it right this time.
Sorry if I in any way sounded like I knew this from personal experience.
I have never spend much time in a lab running experiments,
altho, I did grow up on a farm and worked the land or in greenhouses most of my adult life, its really not the same.
Driving tractors and planting corn is not at all like Hydro growing reefer for certain.
When we used nutes it was by pumping it into hoses and feeding to waste not like the recirculating system I am using now.
Quite a difference.
I still believe that pot grows better and stronger with a dark period, like all other plants.
But I guess in the end, you should do what your are comfortable with in your own garden.
Happy growing Eddie