Inda-gro Induction...

[chazbolin]

Hiya Vet! The garden is looking good brotha! Nice work.

In the interest of full disclosure it was the PSUAGRO's work on the side by side he'd doing with the HANS panel that pushed the guys at Inda-Gro to experiment with reducing Pfr switching for indoor gardens and getting a higher 660nm contribution out of the 420's that hang over so many of our gardens. This is what the came up with;

[video=youtube;ma47mlzTrFg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma47mlzTrFg&list=UUc7IPosooLoG_lxXYvporkw& index=1[/video]

Gordo: Not all lamps are created equal my friend. Do your research before you buy. Inda-Gro uses their own phosphor blend that is not BAM based. I've had the opportunity to compare against other triphosphor BAM blends. It's a long term investment so don't base your decision solely on the price of a cheap triphosphor induction lamp out of China.

Everyone have a safe and happy new year!

 

[chazbolin]

A day 70 Side by Side against their own 420 series showing some interesting results. I can't get over how the trellis is dipping from the weight on the right side. Shows promise me thinks. Let's get these in the hands of Spliff and PSUGRO STAT!

[video=youtube;XKa3NDPNvIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKa3NDPNvIA&list=UUc7IPosooLoG_lxXYvporkw& index=2[/video]

 

[djwimbo]

I've been wondering when that info/product would be available. Website doesn't say anything about pricing or availability though.

Any idea if they'll make one for the PAR200?

 

[gordobo]

Nothing on the site for these. Must be new. These 420 lights would be too much for my lil garden but it is pretty impressive for just adding 40 watts worth of leds. Anyone heard if they'll make them for the 100 and the 200 models?

 

[Splifferous]

Hey Chaz! those 420-pfr-pontoons are some powerful sexy right there. thanks for posting those up here!

@djwimbo: yes, they are very new! Darryl mentioned to me that they are currently in the build process on these, and availability should be in January 2013 or so. He went on to inform me that they will have a MSRP of $745. Your mention of one for a 200-PAR is, i'm sure, dependent on how well the one for the 420s is received; as well as the matter of how many people are using 200s to bloom, and would thus be interested in one for that.

also, i want to mention that in the very near future i'll be starting a new thread regarding the 420-pfr-pontoon, as i will soon be running a pontoon'd 420 vs a standard 420 in bloom, and will have a new thread devoted to that. stay tuned!

 

[|FCG|Frank]

I just ordered my 200PAR Inda-Gro to pair it with with an Area51-90 LED (170W) in flower.

The tent will be fully sealed, supplemented by CO2 and 100% automated climate control. I'm very anxious to start.

 

[chazbolin]

Very cool Spliff! I had no doubt you'd be involved when they start going out next month. Should be an incredibly fun garden to watch. For what it's worth if you've already got some girls in veg the pontoon should get to you when you're ready to flower. No matter though, when I get mine I told him I'd put it up on some G13 my mates are running.

Gordo: I do know that the smaller pontoons will be available for the 100 & 200 with the difference being they will have a proportional reduction in diodes and will not be pitched the 10 degrees like they're doing on the 420's. I'm told they will just be flat with the diodes facing down with a 90 degree distribution pattern for the plants underneath the smaller lights. If you do go with this setup on a 100 watt light I think you'll be getting the best of all worlds. I heard PSUAGRO will be running one soon so if you can wait till his is up you'll know what to expect.

From what I've been told the purpose of taking the 420 pontoons on the angles was as much for canopy penetration but to also let the outside angles interact with the adjacent lights pontoon footprint should you have a garden working multiple lights. They see it as taking advantage of the inherent strengths of SSL by enhancing PFFD in a flowering area of at least 1.5 m-sq /light. If they out deliver the hardened HID crowd than you can say you you saw it here first.

Blessings

 

[hyroot]

$745 just for the pontoons.... Really....... 20 5 watt diodes that run at 2.25 watts. 6 IR's. I Can make one with cree and rebel for under $200 using 3 watt diodes running almost the same watts. That is way way too much over priced. Diy led usually costs more.

High end led panels usually run at $2-$2.50 per actual watts. So the pontoons should be $100-$150

A $250 65 watt led is killing a $400 100 watt IG..

 

[chazbolin]

$745 just for the pontoons.... Really....... 20 5 watt diodes that run at 2.25 watts. 6 IR's. I Can make one with cree and rebel for under $200 using 3 watt diodes running almost the same watts. That is way way too much over priced. Diy led usually costs more.

Nothing price wise is set in stone. These are not even in production yet. Overall costs associated with the 660 diodes and the additional 730 diodes/Pfr control circuit will make it more expensive than any DIY panel. While not a mandatory accessory if adding it bumps the crop by 40% (on the tomato's at least there are twice as many fruiting and 10 days further along) than they'll sell as many as they can build at least in my neck of the woods. And let's not forget they also build for a dealer network that takes 30% off MSRP. They are not going to lose money on these and won't compromise quality with cheap components. If someone comes in cheaper let them. After all that is the way free enterprise works. But until then let's see what these babies can do.

 

[hyroot]

Have you seen the timer controlled lithium batteries used in racing. They sell for $50 -$99. Or just do a seperate timer for $5 for just the IR. Those run less than 1 watt each anyway. That wouldn't cost more than a few pennies on the electric bill.

 

[chazbolin]

I agree it needs to be priced right. The time out/ charging op-amp circuit for the lithium-ion batteries is a PCB they put into one side of the pontoons and is designed to maintain steady voltage until the relay opens at 5 minutes. The opp/amp is the timer and with the lights out you have to separately control with the DC power supply since AC is off from the source power. The other side holds a MeanWell 60watt power supply. Throw in the housings, powder coating, wiring/soldering the diodes...before you know it there's $400.00 in materials and labor into one of these. What the end user is going to get is a streamlined package that just drapes over the 420 and plugs into the existing incoming power of the 420. No other timers, wiring or assembly is required. It's plug, play and garden.

If it does what it appears to be able to do then it's just a matter of time before China runs off with some version of this for 1/2 the price anyway. Of course that didn't stop me from helping push this along and frankly someone that would save a few bucks from eventually buying from China direct or the DIY'er isn't their target market anyway. My take is that they build their products for themselves first and customers second who get the benefit of buying something that they use and stand behind after the sale.

 

[hyroot]

The housing costs maybe $25 - $50t o be made at any sheet metal machine shop. Or just use heat syncs aimed that way. Powder coating is pretty simple and is only for asthetics and is unnecessary.. I can make that pontoon sell it for 400 and still profit $100 +... Use higher end led's.... Even the price on the 420 should be lower.

 

[chazbolin]

Why criticize what is still in it's infancy? If you're going to build these systems and sell them for less than you should do so. If these are of no value to you, priced outside of what you can afford or are more than you're willing to spend than you don't buy them. At the end of the day customers vote with their wallets and their feet. I want to see what they can do before I equate cost with value.

 

[djwimbo]

I can agree that the mentioned price point is out of the range that I'm interested in. However, I'm very interested in the results. That could sway me more, and once everything is up and running (website and grows), it would be good to see it packaged together for a discount. I would imagine that if the 100 & 200 will get the same treatment that the overall price would lower, since they're somewhat of a modular design(dimensionally). That being said, I don't think I'm in the market for a 200w induction + 30-40w LED combo if it's >$1K. For that dollar amount I'd rather DIY, or just go buy two 40W Kessils (making it 280w). In perspective, these lamps weren't originally made for the people on a tight budget/investment.

How long is the warranty on the LED pontoons?


... I'm feeling like "Pontoon" jokes will come out of the woodwork once some gnarly colas are popping out of a scrog net.

 

[hyroot]

I meant that I could build one and sell it for less with higher end leds. Not going to sell them. Of I happen too. It won't be any time soon. I was making a point that at 745. That price is plain highway robbery. Ima diy for myself.

You can go to rapid led even and get kits to build to 2 lights. 12x3. Phillips rebel 660nm leds for 190 to 225 total. depending on if its sodorless or not. They don't carry IR led's though. The cree whites have 730nm though. That probably won't work. You can get some chinese ones off ebay though. Run them on a seperate digi timer from walmart. Thats the more expensive route.

Word up

 

[Splifferous]

so, i remember one day when i was a kid, i musta been about 13... my dad's friend got one of those "partybarge" boats and we all went over to check it out. the guy's wife comes out into the garage when we were there and is all "ya, he's really proud of his new poontang boat"...
that woulda been good enough except that i went on and said "i'm sure he is, but that's called a pontoon boat"...

that is all.

 

[gordobo]

Poontang boat huh? I wonder where her mind was?

Regarding the price of the poontangs, would a 40% increase in yield justify the price? considering that the BD 1/8ths have been costing me 40 bones that increase in yield would make adding one of these justifiable. If it works like the vids appear at least for me it will come down to how much they cost for the 100 watt model. Speaking just for myself I'd rather not be building lights. I'm more into getting my garden up and running. Do any of you think you'll be doing a run with these within the next month or so where I can check it out? Much obliged.

 

[Splifferous]

hey there gordobo

actually, the woman really wasn't the kind to have either "pontoon" or "poontang" in her common vernacular. i figure that it was more a case of her having heard both words before, but only enough to have a "sounds like" correlation without her having much of a usable understanding of the words...

now, regarding the price of the pontoons, i am not yet in a position to say one way or another on that.

according the video that Chaz posted, the tomato differences seem to demonstrate that there is indeed a benefit to the pontoon. but see, it's not just the addition of the 660nm, but also the 730nm pfr stimulation going on that makes the plants experience an additional 2 hours of the dark cycle. this means that you can (theoretically - i haven't tested this indoors yet) trigger and continue bloom with a 14on/10off light cycle (which the plants perceive as 14/12), or hasten ripening (for a long term sativa, for example - this i have done) by keeping the standard 12/12 that the plants perceive as 12/14. or you can do a variant of the 2 extremes, or shift from 14/10 to 12/12 according to a diminishing light schedule.

regarding the testing, yes. i should be getting one of the new pontoons in the next 2-3 weeks, and will be running it side-by-side vs a non-toon'd 420. i was just in my veg room and figuring out whats going in the test, and so far it looks like each 420 will be over it's own set of 2 Qrazy Trains, 1 Blueberry, and 1 White Rhino. the timing will be perfect, really, because that's about when my current White Fires and Oregon Licorice will be finishing up. i'll be starting a new thread for the pontoon comparison in the near future, so stick around!

 

[flaxseedoil1000]

regarding the testing, yes. i should be getting one of the new pontoons in the next 2-3 weeks, and will be running it side-by-side vs a non-toon'd 420.

I knew it

I guessed the pontoons were gonna be $400 and planned on driving over to get one when available.

At almost $800, naw, Spliff will have them first and test for us (Thx Spliff)

For me the question is, will $800 of pontoon out perform a two 420's? How about one 420 and four Kessil wide reds? Or one 420 and CO2?

Looking forward to the results Spliff.

 

[djwimbo]

How about one 420 and four Kessil wide reds?

That was one of my first questions. the H150's are 40W each, and the pontoon is 40W (not incl the 730nm IIRC). An H150 is "cheap" by comparison, but you don't get the "sunset effect" of the 730nm. I see the benefit in each system, but I don't want to be the guy shelling out $3K+ to set up 2x 48x48x96 rooms, 2x 420PAR's, 2x H150's, 1x Pontoon, nutes, etc. just to make a comparison.

DIY pontoons? http://www.buildmyled.com/supplemental-growth-lights/ 12-48" 20-84W (size depending)