it's Obamas fault

canndo

Well-Known Member
Got news for ya.....Obamacare.You have zero control over your body for sure now my friend.There will be DEATH panels...there will be people who decide if you get treatment or not....that is a fact

Really? REALLY? are you still carrying around all those old, long ago debunked jack jobs and water cooler "guess what he is doing to us now" statements?

You don't seem to have any news for me at all. Nowhere in the law does it say I don't have control over my body. Nowhere does it say there are death panels and nowhere does it say that "people from the big bad old government will decide if you get treatment". Of course if you look at the fine print of the private health insurance policy you have you will find a number of references to where THEY get to decide if you get treatment. If the treatment is designated - by them, as experimental, if the treatment costs more than X, if the cost is more than your yearly or lifetime cap, if the treatment is not in the list of treatments they cover in the first place but you don't know much about until you have the disease itself and spent the time on WebMD.

In short, Stellah, you havn't been paying much attention these last 4 years or so.

You are better off then you were and it will continue to get better. Your grandma won't be sent off to be injected with an overdose of fentanyl while she listens to her favorite opera and there will be no round table of government officials making determinations on what meds Stellah will be denied.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Pay Obama's campaign a million dollar and you reap 100 million dollars in financial benefits. What a cheap whores the Democrats are.
You are correct, Dems are cheap, whereas Republicans are paid billions and this pass, got nothing at all for their "investment". Thanks Karl, see you around Fox's green room.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Really? REALLY? are you still carrying around all those old, long ago debunked jack jobs and water cooler "guess what he is doing to us now" statements?

You don't seem to have any news for me at all. Nowhere in the law does it say I don't have control over my body. Nowhere does it say there are death panels and nowhere does it say that "people from the big bad old government will decide if you get treatment". Of course if you look at the fine print of the private health insurance policy you have you will find a number of references to where THEY get to decide if you get treatment. If the treatment is designated - by them, as experimental, if the treatment costs more than X, if the cost is more than your yearly or lifetime cap, if the treatment is not in the list of treatments they cover in the first place but you don't know much about until you have the disease itself and spent the time on WebMD.

In short, Stellah, you havn't been paying much attention these last 4 years or so.

You are better off then you were and it will continue to get better. Your grandma won't be sent off to be injected with an overdose of fentanyl while she listens to her favorite opera and there will be no round table of government officials making determinations on what meds Stellah will be denied.
Nothing in "Obamacare" or any country that has universal health care
outlaws private health insurance

Only thing "Obamcare" does is make it illegal for Private insurance companies to drop you (death panel) for treatment or refuse to treat you
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Nothing in "Obamacare" or any country that has universal health care
outlaws private health insurance

Only thing "Obamcare" does is make it illegal for Private insurance companies to drop you (death panel) for treatment or refuse to treat you

We have seen the advent of boutique health plans for the last 10 years or so in response to long lines in the ER, short visits after long waiting periods with "parenting magazine" and "golf digest" as the only diversion for the hour or so we wait even before we have to sit on that examination table for another 20 minutes. We like to have doctors at least treat us as something other than the next body to be examined before lunch.

There will be even more of this as things change in this country, the rich and those who see higher priority in having personalized service from their doctors will be more and more in demand. There is no chance that the government will ever be as hard hearted as insurance companies already are. Government is beholding to citizens, voting tax paying citizens and watchdog groups will see to it that the first "dealth panel" decision makes front page news, FOX of course will draw even an appearance of such a thing out for weeks (where they have yet to report on a single impropriety committed by any of the big insurance companies now).

No, the rich have nothing to worry about and the rest of us will either get care we were originaly denied outright or at least get seen by someone with a bit of compassion. Lots of people's lives will be extended simply because they were able to get blood pressure medication for cheap. Yeah, it may well be that we will have longer lines and longer waits but I don't comprehend how anyone who doesn't get any attention now has much to complain about when it takes half of one of his oh so precious days in order to be seen for that scary lump under his right arm.

When examined closely, the anti-obama care folks have nothing, not a single thing that stands up to examination to complain about.

Oh, I forgot, there is one thing. "the government is MAKING me pay for something I don't want", that is until he is yanked out of a car wreck and where he would have had to think about how he was going to pay the 45k the hospital wants to put his pelvis back together, now he doesn't have to sell his motor home to pay.
 

Trolling

New Member
At its simplest, using a supersized font to make a response into a shout. It is both unsightly and rude in my considered opinion. Wordz used the technique until he got banned.

I knew the day would come
I knew UB would not long resist the temptation to push the edge of the envelope with the new guy.
I'd rather it be done now over something marginal.
But I will deal with abusive format just as I will deal with abusive content, unless told otherwise by manangement.
cn
But what is a format abuse? Spamming links?
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
We have seen the advent of boutique health plans for the last 10 years or so in response to long lines in the ER, short visits after long waiting periods with "parenting magazine" and "golf digest" as the only diversion for the hour or so we wait even before we have to sit on that examination table for another 20 minutes. We like to have doctors at least treat us as something other than the next body to be examined before lunch.

There will be even more of this as things change in this country, the rich and those who see higher priority in having personalized service from their doctors will be more and more in demand. There is no chance that the government will ever be as hard hearted as insurance companies already are. Government is beholding to citizens, voting tax paying citizens and watchdog groups will see to it that the first "dealth panel" decision makes front page news, FOX of course will draw even an appearance of such a thing out for weeks (where they have yet to report on a single impropriety committed by any of the big insurance companies now).

No, the rich have nothing to worry about and the rest of us will either get care we were originaly denied outright or at least get seen by someone with a bit of compassion. Lots of people's lives will be extended simply because they were able to get blood pressure medication for cheap. Yeah, it may well be that we will have longer lines and longer waits but I don't comprehend how anyone who doesn't get any attention now has much to complain about when it takes half of one of his oh so precious days in order to be seen for that scary lump under his right arm.

When examined closely, the anti-obama care folks have nothing, not a single thing that stands up to examination to complain about.

Oh, I forgot, there is one thing. "the government is MAKING me pay for something I don't want", that is until he is yanked out of a car wreck and where he would have had to think about how he was going to pay the 45k the hospital wants to put his pelvis back together, now he doesn't have to sell his motor home to pay.
no, not this at all. Each paragraph contains some sort of twisted view by someone who neither works in the health care field or the insurance field.

boutique health plans have been around since the advent of insurance. 10 years is simply not true. In fact, they were much more commonplace before we started tying health insurance to employment. What Obamacare outlaws is catastrophic insurance. Which is the most sensible insurance for the younger healthier generation.

Government is NOT all heartfelt and caring about it's citizens when it comes to healthcare. They are the biggest denier of coverage. Medicaid/care denies almost 3 times as many claims as all private insurance combined while paying providers less for what they do cover.

Because the hospital corporations negotiated higher pay rates for same services (EMTALA, the first huge government interference) we are seeing doctors offices sell to hospitals. This puts them on a guaranteed salary while hospital collects a higher reimbursement for the same service they performed last week in the same clinic. The incentive to work long hours is gone for the doc under a salary. The shortage will become shorter if those working an average of 60-80 hrs a week cut their time by 50% or more.

Obama's cabinet health adviser is Ezekial Emanuel. Please read his publications and his advice about rationing according to productivity potential. If Obama does not agree with this man's advice why did he appoint him to such a high position? Why hire him at all?

You say anit-obamacare people have nothing........ Aren't you the one who claimed there wasn't a 700B dollar cut to medicare and you knew that for a fact because you claimed to have read the bill? oops . Besides a litany of health care cost related complaints, liberty stomping complaints and over reaching of the government complaints, there are complaints about the pharmaceutical payoff, the insurance boondoggle and corporate hospital windfall. There are legitimate complaints about the costs (you know, since we are broke).

And fuck anyone who tells me I have to buy something because it's good for me. Fuck em, seriously, right in their self-righteous, intolerant skulls. That's not how you treat other adults in a free society.

You seem to be attributing your feelings about what a decent health care bill would do and are assuming this is it. Why? What truths have you been told about any major bill that leads you to believe this time they are right? When was the last CBO cost projection that was even close?

canndo, you are one of the most informed posters in the political section. I enjoy your posts and feel you've educated me on quite a few subjects, but you are out of your element in obamacare discussions.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
no, not this at all. Each paragraph contains some sort of twisted view by someone who neither works in the health care field or the insurance field.

boutique health plans have been around since the advent of insurance. 10 years is simply not true. In fact, they were much more commonplace before we started tying health insurance to employment. What Obamacare outlaws is catastrophic insurance. Which is the most sensible insurance for the younger healthier generation.

Government is NOT all heartfelt and caring about it's citizens when it comes to healthcare. They are the biggest denier of coverage. Medicaid/care denies almost 3 times as many claims as all private insurance combined while paying providers less for what they do cover.

Because the hospital corporations negotiated higher pay rates for same services (EMTALA, the first huge government interference) we are seeing doctors offices sell to hospitals. This puts them on a guaranteed salary while hospital collects a higher reimbursement for the same service they performed last week in the same clinic. The incentive to work long hours is gone for the doc under a salary. The shortage will become shorter if those working an average of 60-80 hrs a week cut their time by 50% or more.

Obama's cabinet health adviser is Ezekial Emanuel. Please read his publications and his advice about rationing according to productivity potential. If Obama does not agree with this man's advice why did he appoint him to such a high position? Why hire him at all?

You say anit-obamacare people have nothing........ Aren't you the one who claimed there wasn't a 700B dollar cut to medicare and you knew that for a fact because you claimed to have read the bill? oops . Besides a litany of health care cost related complaints, liberty stomping complaints and over reaching of the government complaints, there are complaints about the pharmaceutical payoff, the insurance boondoggle and corporate hospital windfall. There are legitimate complaints about the costs (you know, since we are broke).

And fuck anyone who tells me I have to buy something because it's good for me. Fuck em, seriously, right in their self-righteous, intolerant skulls. That's not how you treat other adults in a free society.

You seem to be attributing your feelings about what a decent health care bill would do and are assuming this is it. Why? What truths have you been told about any major bill that leads you to believe this time they are right? When was the last CBO cost projection that was even close?

canndo, you are one of the most informed posters in the political section. I enjoy your posts and feel you've educated me on quite a few subjects, but you are out of your element in obamacare discussions.

So what in the law rations health care

point it out

Some facts. Not feelings would be nice.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
So what in the law rations health care

point it out

Some facts. Not feelings would be nice.
A 700B dollar cut to the biggest denier of care in the world. You don't need it spelled out to tell you rationing will become necessary. The vast majority of our costs are for end of life care. The vast majority of cuts will need to come from end of life care.

Our country is going to have to realize that extending Grandma's life for 6 months at a cost of millions will only be available to the rich Grandmas. We have the largest segment of the population ever (baby boomers) reaching medicare age and they are going to want the same care their parents received. Not gonna happen, can't happen.

Seriously though, when Obama told us to judge him by who he associates with shouldn't ole Zeke and his publications be scrutinized?
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
A 700B dollar cut to the biggest denier of care in the world. You don't need it spelled out to tell you rationing will become necessary. The vast majority of our costs are for end of life care. The vast majority of cuts will need to come from end of life care.

Our country is going to have to realize that extending Grandma's life for 6 months at a cost of millions will only be available to the rich Grandmas. We have the largest segment of the population ever (baby boomers) reaching medicare age and they are going to want the same care their parents received. Not gonna happen, can't happen.

Seriously though, when Obama told us to judge him by who he associates with shouldn't ole Zeke and his publications be scrutinized?
So where are medicare recipients losing service
point it out
You are just repeating the same crap that was debunked 2 years ago
Not even Rush Limbaugh repeats the bullshit you are spewing anymore
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
So is that format abuse?

If so, why do some people get warnings, in yet I get my privileges banned over one link? And then all sudden, you start warning people...weird.
All I can say to that is that I didn't ban you nor was I consulted. I want to stress that as a mod, my PM box is always open for suggestions, complaints and any ol' thing.
I do know that admin frowns sharply on links to commercial sites; they say it's spam. In this matter I have no say. I must enforce. But i would ask you to remove it before taking any other steps, such as remand it to higher-ups who have the capacity to ban or withhold privileges, like PMs and sigs.
Be assured that if I take issue with your behavior, i would strive to PM you about it. I would rather come to a genuinely mutual agreement than have to whip out the Wet Noodle of Wrath. ;) cn
 

fb360

Active Member
All I can say to that is that I didn't ban you nor was I consulted. I want to stress that as a mod, my PM box is always open for suggestions, complaints and any ol' thing.
I do know that admin frowns sharply on links to commercial sites; they say it's spam. In this matter I have no say. I must enforce. But i would ask you to remove it before taking any other steps, such as remand it to higher-ups who have the capacity to ban or withhold privileges, like PMs and sigs.
Be assured that if I take issue with your behavior, i would strive to PM you about it. I would rather come to a genuinely mutual agreement than have to whip out the Wet Noodle of Wrath. ;) cn
You've been completely fair imo.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
So where are medicare recipients losing service
point it out
You are just repeating the same crap that was debunked 2 years ago
Not even Rush Limbaugh repeats the bullshit you are spewing anymore
Buck, I used to fight with insurance companies on a daily basis. The government uses outdated studies to base their core measures on. Their studies say you reach maximal return of function from a CVA at 12 months with the majority coming in the first 6. We now know there is not a time limit on brain regeneration. Well, we now know this, but the government hasn't caught up with. Any rehab received after the first six months can be deemed maintenance and denied.

My hospital lost a 50K medicare reimbursement because the cardiologist didn't prescribe aspirin to a heart patient at discharge. What the medicare adjusters are too uninformed to know is that the Dr had prescribed a blood thinner and adding aspirin on top of that could kill him.

Rehab departments are no longer allowed to accept medicare/caid joint replacement patients (private insurance is still cool with this) unless they have an additional medical issue (again, not required by private insurance).

If you are sent home with a wheelchair, medicare will no longer pay for a walker or a cane. You are allowed to get worse, they'll upgrade that chair for a scooter, but they won't pay for assistive devices for positive progression. Oh, and those new chairs come with a shiny new tax in Obamacare to help NOT pay for your walker.

I really shouldn't even have to explain how shitty most medicaid plans are so I won't.

I could do this all day but I've been in enough of these discussions to know that there is a segment of the populace who have such severe Obama derangement that proof will never be enough to change your minds.

Edit: These policies of denial based on maintenance (not pre-existing, that's diff, er not the same, I mean we can't call it that) were in place before Obamacare so I'm not saying this is new. I'm just saying we cut 700B from medicare at a time when the largest segment of the population is entering medicare age (while living longer than ever). 2 + 2 man. Sumpins gotta give.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Buck, I used to fight with insurance companies on a daily basis. The government uses outdated studies to base their core measures on. Their studies say you reach maximal return of function from a CVA at 12 months with the majority coming in the first 6. We now know there is not a time limit on brain regeneration. Well, we now know this, but the government hasn't caught up with. Any rehab received after the first six months can be deemed maintenance and denied.

My hospital lost a 50K medicare reimbursement because the cardiologist didn't prescribe aspirin to a heart patient at discharge. What the medicare adjusters are too uninformed to know is that the Dr had prescribed a blood thinner and adding aspirin on top of that could kill him.

Rehab departments are no longer allowed to accept medicare/caid joint replacement patients (private insurance is still cool with this) unless they have an additional medical issue (again, not required by private insurance).

If you are sent home with a wheelchair, medicare will no longer pay for a walker or a cane. You are allowed to get worse, they'll upgrade that chair for a scooter, but they won't pay for assistive devices for positive progression. Oh, and those new chairs come with a shiny new tax in Obamacare to help NOT pay for your walker.

I really shouldn't even have to explain how shitty most medicaid plans are so I won't.

I could do this all day but I've been in enough of these discussions to know that there is a segment of the populace who have such severe Obama derangement that proof will never be enough to change your minds.

So the solution then is to get rid of medicare completly and let the patients die
 
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