Inda-gro Induction...

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
Like with anything, especially electronics, price is not always correlative to value. I upgraded my Blackberry to the new iPhone 5 because it was thinner and had more features. I didn't think that a modest amount of pressure would bend the phone but it did. So even though I spent just south of $400 on this phone I am left with a bent phone. http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-iPhone-5-users-complain-of-soft-bendy-frame_id38062#6-

That never happened to the Blackberry which was built like a fricking rock. Of course this repair isn't covered under warranty and I either have to live with it or replace the phone. So I'm out the initial investment and I go back to a new generation Blackberry. Total hit of this little conversion around $600.00. My point is until you actually know how it's going to perform for you, in your application, price is secondary to value.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
800 dollar experiment for the indigro 420
-less energy use
-claimed power of a 750 hps
-longer bulb life
-less ventilation for cooling
-worse case scenario selling on craigslist for 60% of purchase price
Seems like a win win situation
 

djwimbo

Well-Known Member
Like with anything, especially electronics, price is not always correlative to value. ... My point is until you actually know how it's going to perform for you, in your application, price is secondary to value.
Agreed. Some have less to invest though. I'm still not spending any $ on lighting until I buy a house, so that's my priority. Which also gives me plenty of time to watch, listen and learn, by those who have tried, succeeded and/or failed.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
The DIY model on this link would require 2 of the 42" tubes to run the length of the 420 which they don't make so let's just move into the 36" long @ $ 220.00 ea., so we're at $440.00 for both tubes without the other features these pontoons will bring to market such as the Pfr control switch/730 diodes, battery charging circuit, and asymetrical layout of the opposing pontoons to interlace the beam patterns over a larger flowering area. Perhaps IG should make these pontoons without the Pfr circuit/diodes to get into the more affordable sub $500 range. It seems that adding the Pfr circuit/6 ea., 730nm diodes for an extra $200 has priced them out of the market. I believe it 's already being referred to as highway robbery.

In an apples to apples comparison of any DIY model one would attempt to construct I would be willing to go out on an early limb here (I don't know the pontoon price yet) and suggest that there will not be an equal that will compete with this design for the price when you honestly factor what your DIY time is worth, the type quantity and quality of the materials used, the area of coverage, the Pfr control circuit, the warranty, the ease of installation and the crop benefits. Now take 30% off from the MSRP price and that is what the dealers will be paying.

There are two ways of looking at this; One is that Inda-Gro should not be selling retail at all. If they only sold through dealer networks they could compete for the retail sale customer who has to stand in the store and decide on spending twice as much on inda-gro product or what the 'informed' aka 'expert' sales person is selling (HID) that works better, is cheaper and they just so happen to have it in stock, with all the accompanying ducting, etc to keep the temps down. Oh and let's not forget that there our friendly neighborhood hydro shop also has plenty of in stock replacement HID lamps which when they need them will be readily available, which, just FYI, should be replaced at 25% of their rated lamp life to maintain 'optimum crop development'.

So if IG relied on the normal business model that the mfg sells through wholesale/retail distribution no one would have seen these products brought to market. A fledgling dealer network may have carried the line but the shear economic benefits of HID lamp replacement sales to the store would have eliminated any real promotion of a technology that took that business away from the POS. Even if that technology smoked the tried and true HID solutions by being less expensive to run, lowered the thermal footprint and meant the customer was not lock stepping to the POS with an unusual propensity to regularly buy large amounts of HID lamps from a hydro shop and not from an electrical supplies store the retail hydro store would never get fully behind it.

Secondly is the option that IG not sell to dealers at a discount at all and set their price for retail as the same price the dealers would pay. The reason that won't work is that you have to give dealers a reason to promote a product and not dismiss it out of hand. First, from the dealer perspective, will it bring profits by working better than other products, being available for the sale and for any warranty issues that might arise after the sale? IG has developed that dealer relationship by protecting the dealer from passing through products that their customers are happy with and when a problem occurs with a light will take care of it immediately on behalf of the dealer. But even with that type of support there is a very small percentage of hydro shops that are willing to take on a product that has the potential to cut into their precious HID relamping business. So while they may sign up and become dealers, and mostly that is a result of a customer telling the store owner he either gets the IG through that store or he'll buy it direct, it is the rare dealer who will actively promote a product that cuts into recurring monthly revenues.

IG has an MSRP to protect dealers. Many retail sales occur because people do not want to walk into a hydro-store for whatever reason and will pay MSRP to avoid doing so. To the DIY'er who chooses to build a product that outperforms and is priced better than an IG pontoon congratulations but the reason IG sets prices is to set a reasonable MSRP and allow for dealers to stay in the game when the inevitable customer questions come such as 'I thought LED's sucked and you wouldn't recommend them?' Knowing that this hybridization of technologies represents new turf for retailers and considering that I can count on my left hand how many hydro stores I've been in that carry in stock LED panels as a stand alone option to their current inventory of HID/Fluoro, the pontoon means the dealers, current and future, will simply have to rethink their personal biases on LED as in this case the diodes act as an enhancement spectrum and Pfr control feature to EFDL. And that my friends is how tides are turned.
 

chazbolin

Well-Known Member
An infrared camera picks up what the eye can not see when the battery driven 730nm diodes cover the canopy for 5 minutes @ lights out to reduce an indoor Pfr switch from 2 hours to under 30 minutes which gives the garden an extra 1.5 hrs of flowering time each dark cycle.

Pfr Switch 730nm diodes.jpg

Since this is a very dense canopy, as shown below during normal lights on, the above IR image really shows the canopy penetration that the naked eye would not see at all nor be able to be read by a quantum meter that peak ranges @ 700nm.

12-19-12_3.JPG
 

djwimbo

Well-Known Member
I see your points, and appreciate the input without being insulted, but we wouldn't be on a forum if we couldn't keep our minds open.

For an "All in one" unit, I think the pontoons are a great idea, and I realize that it also boils down to a cost:benefit for the end user. If it's as great as I hope, and I know I'm not alone, then the results will speak for themselves.
 

gordobo

Active Member
I was in retail, did car audio, for a few years and we didn't take on a line unless we could make 40% or more. If inda-gro can get dealers to work with them on a 30% markup then it is inda-gro who would be the rare exception. Most dealers want a minimum of a 40% markup and 50-60% is normal at least from what I was seeing. Thanks for the broader perspective Chaz. It is true that no matter the hydro shop I go into whatever they have in stock is da bomb! Makes for an uphill battle if you're an LED or induction company even if they do kick butt.
 

flaxseedoil1000

Well-Known Member
An infrared camera picks up what the eye can not see when the battery driven 730nm diodes cover the canopy for 5 minutes
be0f9e62a5a1b803b319de610ebb1c80.jpg

In nature, is the far red always there during day or is it mostly prevalent during sunrise and sunset?

In photography we have the 'golden hour', the first and last hours of sunlight during the day. Gives you really warm colors vs high noon.

tia
 

Splifferous

New Member
hey all! time for a lil drive-by video posting!

[video=youtube_share;oA0flqu8jOQ]http://youtu.be/oA0flqu8jOQ[/video]

now i'm off to take some dabs! :fire:

:peace:
 

Loonquawl

Well-Known Member
I dont have a light rail, day 27 of flower, 42"x48" scrog. I have my 420 about 12" above the canopy. How close do you think I could keep it?
 

Splifferous

New Member
first and foremost, i suggest to let your plants tell you how close they like the light. too much stretch, get it closer... too compact of growth, lift it some...

how are they looking? any chance for a few pics or a quick video?

as for how i use the lights, i gradually bring it closer as harvest nears, so that by the last 2 weeks or so, the light is moving a couple inches above the top colas in the canopy. without the mover, tho, i doubt i would run the light that close to the plants. i guess average canopy to light spacing is 5-6 inches overall.

i'll try to set aside a few moments to get in and film a bit in my veg room, so that you can get a sense of hang height that i use there vs in bloom; veg is a 420 on a mover (1m rail) with a 200 at each end of it's path, on the insert of my 5x10 tent.

video soon!

:peace:
 
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