Why Hydroponic chemical is worth more then Organic!

[OGEvilgenius]

Yah...you're dummin pretty good
Well...I usually am not the kind of person to throw my degree around BUT I have my doctoral degree in neuropsychology and you are a little off key. Since you displayed a total lack of intelligent thinking i think id like to give you some help. Of course, taking one or two classes in chemistry tells us nothing and is not a credible statement. Secondly, yes , nature has a way to pollute just as much as humans naturally. However, chemicals are found in many products such as coffee, frappuccinos,, GMO foods (which Europeans have banned...I wonder why...) and just about any fruit, vegetable, meat you buy at any Vons or Albertsons. Unless you are procuring your food straight from the farm. You are ingesting chemicals. Now for my degree. Due to my profession and where I work, i will not link you to the study that I conducted which earned my degree. we tested neuro pathways with chemically altered foods such as GMO, against farm raised ORGANIC foods. During this study, those who only ingested GMO suffered from more anxiety, mood alterations such as mood swings sporadic high altered temparment, as well as increased levels of depression 10x more then those who chose organic foods. Thirdly, the little list you listed above from ROOTS ORGANICS PHOS BAT GUANO 0-7-0, all contain every metal and eliment currently found in our bodies and has been so for as long as we could remember.
please, I know i used a few complicated words such as GMO and neuro-pathways so please do not strain yourself and take this reading lightly, with intelligent observation as you should with all aspects of life. I employ you to continue to educate yourself to the highest potential.

Oh , and bath-salts, SPICE ...same stuff the face eater and others currently around the world have used...psst, they all use chemicals found in those great nutes you care so deeply for . So why don't you use that 4credit course in chemistry and cook bath salts instead. that seems up your alley.

FLORIDE is bad when injested in large amounts. Brushing your grille with floride is actually the best thing you could do to protect your pearly white investment. Knowledge is power!!

He wasn't talking about GMO. An accurate comparison would be hydroponically grown food using a proven chemical formula (like GH) vs a proven organic setup. Organic is a word that can mean just about anything these days. If you want to go organic you're really best off doing everything the old fashioned way IMO.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

It's up to the individual whether their "Organic" grows use certified ingredients. I choose to use ingredients that are certified.

Outdoors especially, I feel strongly that organic (or at least natural) is the right thing to do for our planet... If we all grew organically, there wouldn't be dogs dying because they swam in contaminated creeks...

I'm quite sure OMRI was caught accepting money to slap their label on stuff. That's why Botanicare doesn't bother with certification, at least as I was explained it. 2nd hand admittedly (from a lot of sources).

 

[hexthat]

I'm quite sure OMRI was caught accepting money to slap their label on stuff. That's why Botanicare doesn't bother with certification, at least as I was explained it. 2nd hand admittedly (from a lot of sources).

General Organics doesn't label ether. I have yet to try any. They say the formula is secret and you have to list everything including how its made for OMRI.

Got a friend who uses BioRoot in everything....

 

[SpicySativa]

I use General Organics CaMg+ sometimes. For what it's worth, I contacted GH to ask why no certification (and to confirm that no chelating agents like EDTA were included). Their answer was essentially "No EDTA or other chelating agents are used. We don't pursue OMRI certification because it is a difficult, expensive, and drawn out process." Not exactly the kind of answer that gives you a warm fuzzy feeling...

I have a few bottles of Earth Juice laying around that I'll be using up. Other than that I'm done with bottles. Dry soil amendments and compost tea for me.

 

[Dan Kone]

Here's the bottom line for me.

I use house & garden A&B, CaMg, a nitrogen booster one time in veg, then in flowering I use a cheap PK booster (usually either koolbloom or those new fox farm boosters. And that's it. That's all I'm buying to put into my rez.

It's cheap and grows high qualify bud, that yields decent, is potent, and looks/tastes amazing.

Why would anyone want to spend more money for organics when you're not really getting an upgrade and usually you're getting a downgrade in at least yield?

 

[curious2garden]

Here's the bottom line for me.

I use house & garden A&B, CaMg, a nitrogen booster one time in veg, then in flowering I use a cheap PK booster (usually either koolbloom or those new fox farm boosters. And that's it. That's all I'm buying to put into my rez.

It's cheap and grows high qualify bud, that yields decent, is potent, and looks/tastes amazing.

Why would anyone want to spend more money for organics when you're not really getting an upgrade and usually you're getting a downgrade in at least yield?

Dan I really wish you would write a book. I even have a terrible title suggestion for you! The Cannabis Cultivist's Handbook; Simple Path to Fabulous Results.
I'm dead serious here something like that from you would have saved me so much trouble.
Think about it please,

 

[SpicySativa]

Here's the bottom line for me.

I use house & garden A&B, CaMg, a nitrogen booster one time in veg, then in flowering I use a cheap PK booster (usually either koolbloom or those new fox farm boosters. And that's it. That's all I'm buying to put into my rez.

It's cheap and grows high qualify bud, that yields decent, is potent, and looks/tastes amazing.

Why would anyone want to spend more money for organics when you're not really getting an upgrade and usually you're getting a downgrade in at least yield?

Organics (dry soil ammendments) are absolutely dirt cheap, and a little goes a long way. I'm not sure where you guys keep getting this idea that they are more expensive than chemical nutrients.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I personally could care less about yield. My little organic 600 watt system consistently supplies me and the folks I care about with more meds than we know what to do with, and that's all that matters. I aint selling anything so profits dont matter. Not one penny changes hands when I share my herbs. Quality wise, we are very happy with it. And being the "green" type, it just seems like the right way for me to do things. Simple as that.

 

[Mithrandir420]

I use GH 3 part with no additives in veg.

In flower I add kool bloom, and calmag. I add flora nectar twice during a 60 day run and I am still undecided as to whether or not it adds enough to justify it's use.

My flowers are great, and I get nothing but compliments on them. I have my system dialed in, and I have enough experience with GH that I can tweak it pretty well according to the plants needs. Why would I switch to organics and spend more, as Dan Kone said, but then also have to learn an entirely different system? It's not going to produce better flowers than I can produce with my current system.

 

[ReefBongwell]

I'll bet there are a ton of growers who had the same thought and ended up with dead, burnt up, or nasty chem tasting crop of plants. I'm sure if you take the time to get it right and master it, you can produce a big, maybe even great tasting crop... and until you reach that point what kind of shit are you putting out?

Also, when was the last time you grew in super soil and how long did you give it? Because I question your statement on yield. I was averaging 4oz/plant on 3' tall plants in 2.5-3.5 gallon pots in the same time it takes to grow plants in hydro on my last super soil grow. Now I've never had similar results from organic 'formulas' you buy at the hydro store... and those are way more expensive... and what most people who you're comparing your organic results to use.

So yes, a master hydro grower is going to put out better/more than a non-master organic grower, and a master organic grower is going to put out more than an average hydro grower... and you can bicker back and forth with your arguments that only prove you believe what you believe but don't actually prove shit. So what is the fucking point? My friend grows hydro, he yields way less than I do on his grow with 2kw in lights and is still looking for the ideal hydro solution for him. Doesn't mean he won't one day produce crazy yields and quality once he masters one particular set up, but to say hydro is better for everyone than organic is just f'in stupid, stupid, stupid.

Mithrandir, no one asked you to change from hydro. I'm quite content for you and my bro to do your own thing. Now the OP of this thread on the other hand, posted quite a bit of smack about organics and the organic people here are just responding to that. A couple of you are (not you M) are acting like complete douchebags as well and not really representing the type of grower I wanna be.

PS - fuck you to the asshole putting down subcool. Bad karma. I'll take subcool's shit over yours anyday.

 

[SpicySativa]

I'll bet there are a ton of growers who had the same thought and ended up with dead, burnt up, or nasty chem tasting crop of plants. I'm sure if you take the time to get it right and master it, you can produce a big, maybe even great tasting crop... and until you reach that point what kind of shit are you putting out?

Also, when was the last time you grew in super soil and how long did you give it? Because I question your statement on yield. I was averaging 4oz/plant on 3' tall plants in 2.5-3.5 gallon pots in the same time it takes to grow plants in hydro on my last super soil grow. Now I've never had similar results from organic 'formulas' you buy at the hydro store... and those are way more expensive... and what most people who you're comparing your organic results to use.

So yes, a master hydro grower is going to put out better/more than a non-master organic grower, and a master organic grower is going to put out more than an average hydro grower... and you can bicker back and forth with your arguments that only prove you believe what you believe but don't actually prove shit. So what is the fucking point? My friend grows hydro, he yields way less than I do on his grow with 2kw in lights and is still looking for the ideal hydro solution for him. Doesn't mean he won't one day produce crazy yields and quality once he masters one particular set up, but to say hydro is better for everyone than organic is just f'in stupid, stupid, stupid.

Mithrandir, no one asked you to change from hydro. I'm quite content for you and my bro to do your own thing. Now the OP of this thread on the other hand, posted quite a bit of smack about organics and the organic people here are just responding to that. A couple of you are (not you M) are acting like complete douchebags as well and not really representing the type of grower I wanna be.

PS - fuck you to the asshole putting down subcool. Bad karma. I'll take subcool's shit over yours anyday.

Well said, man. Thanks for stepping up.

 

[Mithrandir420]

I'll bet there are a ton of growers who had the same thought and ended up with dead, burnt up, or nasty chem tasting crop of plants. I'm sure if you take the time to get it right and master it, you can produce a big, maybe even great tasting crop... and until you reach that point what kind of shit are you putting out?

Also, when was the last time you grew in super soil and how long did you give it? Because I question your statement on yield. I was averaging 4oz/plant on 3' tall plants in 2.5-3.5 gallon pots in the same time it takes to grow plants in hydro on my last super soil grow. Now I've never had similar results from organic 'formulas' you buy at the hydro store... and those are way more expensive... and what most people who you're comparing your organic results to use.

So yes, a master hydro grower is going to put out better/more than a non-master organic grower, and a master organic grower is going to put out more than an average hydro grower... and you can bicker back and forth with your arguments that only prove you believe what you believe but don't actually prove shit. So what is the fucking point? My friend grows hydro, he yields way less than I do on his grow with 2kw in lights and is still looking for the ideal hydro solution for him. Doesn't mean he won't one day produce crazy yields and quality once he masters one particular set up, but to say hydro is better for everyone than organic is just f'in stupid, stupid, stupid.

Mithrandir, no one asked you to change from hydro. I'm quite content for you and my bro to do your own thing. Now the OP of this thread on the other hand, posted quite a bit of smack about organics and the organic people here are just responding to that. A couple of you are (not you M) are acting like complete douchebags as well and not really representing the type of grower I wanna be.

PS - fuck you to the asshole putting down subcool. Bad karma. I'll take subcool's shit over yours anyday.

I will again liken it to Apple vs. PC only now I will say that, given the "passion" in this post, that organic = Apple.

My response was a general response, not that anyone was saying I should switch. I have learned many things doing this, but over the years one of the things I have seen repeatedly is that anyone can achieve stellar results as long as they take the time and energy to learn whatever system they are using, and learn what the plant needs. I achieve stellar results with Blue Dream. I have had many experienced people tell me that it's the best BD they ever had. Why? Because I have stellar genetics, and I know my system so well that I am able to fine tune it to what the plant needs. If I tried it in anything other than what I know I would not be able to achieve the results I do.

As for bashing Subcool, well I didn't see what they said but the man knows how to grow, that's for sure. He knows his system so well that he can achieve fantastic results with it. He's been doing it so long he can teach others. I bet he fails miserably if he did it in hydro, though. His true talent lies in marketing though. That guy could sell ice to an eskimo. I have only tried a few of his genetics and they were alright. I would like to see him make more of an effort to stabilize his lines though. Too much pheno variety, IMO.

I don't have anything against organics. If I go outdoors some day I will likely go organic. But I am an asshole to people who spread around incorrect information. Thay deserve it.

 

[SpicySativa]

Dare I ask... I assume you are referring to me with that last paragraph? Honestly not trying to prolong this argument... But I'm curious what you think I said that was incorrect?

 

[ReefBongwell]

Pretty much agree with everything you said there other than organics = mac and sub's strain's being 'alright' I haven't found many seed strains without variation but the varieties I get on sub's seeds are all dank no duds like with so many others. I don't grow exclusively tga and the non-tga beans are almost always my least favorite plants. The only seeds I grew out this year that I liked as much as TGA was serious' original white russian.

Oh it's funny you mention blue dream... i recently got some while in CO from a dispensary... resold by a guy off craigslist it was not their finest bud, just 'alright.' What you got sounds more like the 26% stuff that recently won several categories at the cup (including highest THC and another category but somehow not overall). Wish I could try some of yours

 

[Mithrandir420]

Dare I ask... I assume you are referring to me with that last paragraph? Honestly not trying to prolong this argument... But I'm curious what you think I said that was incorrect?

I would have to go over the thread to know, but with that last statement, no, I wasn't referring to you. I'm kind of a jerk all over these boards to people who spread around misinformation or who ask truly stupid questions.

Reef, I only tried Jillybean and Plushberry. Both were meh. Not bad, but nothing I would use garden space on. I would like to try some of his other stuff, just as I would like to try gear from many breeders. I am going to the LA cup in the hope that I will, among other things, be able to try some of his other gear. And maybe pick up some free seeds. heh heh. I won't write off a breeder based on two varieties out of many. I'm just tied for space.

I got lucky with the Blue Dream. It was a trade with another med patient who happened to have access to a great cut. I take care of it like the rare gem that it is. Same with the GSC I have.

 

[curious2garden]

......snip.......I am going to the LA cup ...snip...

When is the LA Cup this year? Last year I only heard about it a few days prior.
Thank you,

 

[Kite High]

I'll bet there are a ton of growers who had the same thought and ended up with dead, burnt up, or nasty chem tasting crop of plants. I'm sure if you take the time to get it right and master it, you can produce a big, maybe even great tasting crop... and until you reach that point what kind of shit are you putting out?

Also, when was the last time you grew in super soil and how long did you give it? Because I question your statement on yield. I was averaging 4oz/plant on 3' tall plants in 2.5-3.5 gallon pots in the same time it takes to grow plants in hydro on my last super soil grow. Now I've never had similar results from organic 'formulas' you buy at the hydro store... and those are way more expensive... and what most people who you're comparing your organic results to use.

So yes, a master hydro grower is going to put out better/more than a non-master organic grower, and a master organic grower is going to put out more than an average hydro grower... and you can bicker back and forth with your arguments that only prove you believe what you believe but don't actually prove shit. So what is the fucking point? My friend grows hydro, he yields way less than I do on his grow with 2kw in lights and is still looking for the ideal hydro solution for him. Doesn't mean he won't one day produce crazy yields and quality once he masters one particular set up, but to say hydro is better for everyone than organic is just f'in stupid, stupid, stupid.

Mithrandir, no one asked you to change from hydro. I'm quite content for you and my bro to do your own thing. Now the OP of this thread on the other hand, posted quite a bit of smack about organics and the organic people here are just responding to that. A couple of you are (not you M) are acting like complete douchebags as well and not really representing the type of grower I wanna be.

PS - fuck you to the asshole putting down subcool. Bad karma. I'll take subcool's shit over yours anyday.

and fuck you and subfool too

 

[Mithrandir420]

Well I guess now I know who doesn't like Subcool. LOL.

Med Cup is Feb 16th/17th http://medcancup.com/

 

[ReefBongwell]

I would have to go over the thread to know, but with that last statement, no, I wasn't referring to you. I'm kind of a jerk all over these boards to people who spread around misinformation or who ask truly stupid questions.

Reef, I only tried Jillybean and Plushberry. Both were meh. Not bad, but nothing I would use garden space on. I would like to try some of his other stuff, just as I would like to try gear from many breeders. I am going to the LA cup in the hope that I will, among other things, be able to try some of his other gear. And maybe pick up some free seeds. heh heh. I won't write off a breeder based on two varieties out of many. I'm just tied for space.

I got lucky with the Blue Dream. It was a trade with another med patient who happened to have access to a great cut. I take care of it like the rare gem that it is. Same with the GSC I have.

Does your GSC actually smell like GSC? Not too surprised you weren't too impressed with those -- both are supposed to be pretty average potency strains (more of good mood daytime smoke -- especially jillybean) that's why I went with the Ace of Spades over the Plushberry. All about selection too.

So sounds like your best stuff is from cuts... curious whose beans you recommend where every bean I plant is gonna be a stable, high potency stunner? I could care less if beans are stable if they don't deliver in the end. That's what I've mostly liked about TGA's stuff so far... it's been a lot more hit than miss -- I went for their strains that were reputed for potency though -- except for the Apollo because that's just one of my favorite strains and I like it for daytime smoke. It'll still fuck your shit up if you're not used to it.

and fuck you and subfool too

Proving my point exactly. I *REALLY* wanna emulate you and your coolness -- you're doing a great job of convincing others of your points. Learn to grow better shit -- yours obviously is NOT working well enough.

 

[Dan Kone]

I'll bet there are a ton of growers who had the same thought and ended up with dead, burnt up, or nasty chem tasting crop of plants. I'm sure if you take the time to get it right and master it, you can produce a big, maybe even great tasting crop... and until you reach that point what kind of shit are you putting out?

As long as you're not dumping too many additives in your plants and pushing them too hard, you're still going to put out decent bud while learning. Nutrients are a relatively small part of growing. A common mistake new growers make is mistaking deficiencies caused by bad PH for a lack of nutrient problem. As long as you don't fall into that you're likely going to be ok.

Also, when was the last time you grew in super soil and how long did you give it?

I have my own version of supersoil created/adjusted with the help of an organics professional. I use it every year OUTSIDE and it's highly effective. He laughs at the idea of indoor organics, as do I.

Because I question your statement on yield. I was averaging 4oz/plant on 3' tall plants in 2.5-3.5 gallon pots in the same time it takes to grow plants in hydro on my last super soil grow. Now I've never had similar results from organic 'formulas' you buy at the hydro store... and those are way more expensive... and what most people who you're comparing your organic results to use.

You mention supersoil. Well the creator of supersoil admits that he can not come close to matching hydro.

Soil won't compete with Hydro in speed or yields at all.
The main difference is the rate of veg growth which in Hydro is staggering.

So there you go. Strait from the horse's mouth.


I don't measure yield based on how many ounces I get per plant. I actually have no idea how much weight is on each plant I grow. I measure yeild in grams per watt. What I shoot for is .75-1 g per watt. You simply can not get that with indoor organics.

So yes, a master hydro grower is going to put out better/more than a non-master organic grower,and a master organic grower is going to put out more than an average hydro grower...

Not true. Your average hydro grower is going to out yield a master organics grower. You're average hydro grower is going to grow more bud, it's just not going to taste as good. But that's an incredibly simple problem to fix. A two week flush and using minimal nutrients immediately solves that problem. You don't need to be a master to be able to do this.


To figure out how much nutrients a plant wants is pretty simple. Reduce your nutrient regiments until the plant starts to show the very beginnings of a slight deficiency, then ad 20% more. That's how much the plant wants. Remember or write down how many ML/L that is and from then on, you know what that strain wants. Using that system you should be a "master" of that particular strain by your second run. From that point you're out yielding organics growers, producing denser pretty looking buds that taste just as good.

and you can bicker back and forth with your arguments that only prove you believe what you believe but don't actually prove shit. So what is the fucking point? My friend grows hydro, he yields way less than I do on his grow with 2kw in lights and is still looking for the ideal hydro solution for him. Doesn't mean he won't one day produce crazy yields and quality once he masters one particular set up, but to say hydro is better for everyone than organic is just f'in stupid, stupid, stupid.

Is he yielding less running the same strains? If so, then his problems are likely environmental.

PS - fuck you to the asshole putting down subcool. Bad karma. I'll take subcool's shit over yours anyday.

Subcool is very good at what he does, but it's not for everyone. A lot of people aren't going to like it. It's ok for people to have opinions.

 

[Dan Kone]

Organics (dry soil ammendments) are absolutely dirt cheap, and a little goes a long way. I'm not sure where you guys keep getting this idea that they are more expensive than chemical nutrients.

If you're reusing the soil then yes, over time that becomes true. But you also can't immediately reuse organic soil and have that still be true. You'll end up top dressing or using bottled "organic" nutrients every cycle to the point where it's significantly more expensive.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I personally could care less about yield. My little organic 600 watt system consistently supplies me and the folks I care about with more meds than we know what to do with, and that's all that matters. I aint selling anything so profits dont matter. Not one penny changes hands when I share my herbs. Quality wise, we are very happy with it. And being the "green" type, it just seems like the right way for me to do things. Simple as that.

IDK man. I've never in my life said "I wish I didn't grow so much bud". While yield might not be a priority, I can't understand why you'd want less bud for no meaningful benefit in return. I'm not harming the environment or anything with my hydro grow. The most harmful thing about my grow is the electricity it uses.