Tight space hydroponics setup

[Sativied]

Hi all, I'm working on my DIY low budget and tight space hydroponics setup and got a couple of questions. Probably stuff asked and answered before, but after going a week through both great and less-great-but-very-long threads I still have a few questions before I go out and buy material. Getting harder to hold myself back because I'm eager to get started. I'm too tech and tinker-ish to continue growing on soil.

The space I'm growing in is 4 x 3 x 6'7''. No room to expand, no room to place rez outside growspace, so the rez needs to be directly below the trays. I use a 600watt bulb, with reflector that's roughly 25 inches in height. I need about 30" for the plant (measured from top of the site on highest end of the trays). At least 7" more for the 5-inch trays and frame.

That leaves me maybe 15" for the rez, which brings me to my main question: How low can I go with the rez? Is there an optimal/safe/minimum height? I'd like to go as low as possible to leave enough space for the plants, but have a large stable rez regardless. I currently grow half-pipe scrog-style but I can imagine that doesn't work well for checking the roots... I should be able to work with the 30" regardless, I prefer low and wide and can use other ways to achieve that, but it would be nice to have some spare space just in case.

I attached a WIP of the basic design I have in mind, still missing a lot of parts and details. I guess it'll be an NFT with a bit of aero-wannabe in it. For now I'm starting with basic sprinklers on a decent pump. Pump is outside the rez to prevent it from heating the water but in reality it will depend on the pump I end up buying. The trays are 5" pipes. The curved pieces and the T-piece are added to give the roots some extra room - I don't want to end up with a semi-DWC. Not sure if it's long enough but I can extend it easily. 6 sites, probably, and mainly because I currently grow 5 plants in large pots, and I can buy seeds per 6

Let me know if the design/idea sucks. It's based on examples I've seen but fit to my tight space.

 

[AWnox]

Hey bro(or sis), I feel you on the tight space. I have an even smaller space @ 2.5 x 2 x 6 but I use a single Waterfarm which fits in nicely with plenty of room to spare for the air pump (single 110LPM) that feeds a single boss hog air difusser inside the farm. I found hat scrogging is the best method for a tight space like mine, if you fill the screen completely you can get a pretty hefty harvest, best I've gotten from my space is 5 ounces with Nirvana Ice; bomb trees btw. I was thinking of going with a similar method like yours but I don't have the time to invest in such a project. Kudos for trying though man, I would love to have the time to try something like that. Waterfarms are great though man, if you haven't tried one you should at least once and with your space I would run two farms in that mofo and scrog them both at the same time. You'll have a 4 x 3 canopy of colas, how much more productive do you want it man?? xD Anyway hope it helps man and good luck.

 

[Sativied]

I'm pretty much set on building something myself, mainly because I do want to invest some time in just that, and it's half the fun imo. The complete setups are also fairly expensive on this side of the pond and I'd probably be upgrading pumps and stuff with my own making it even more costly. Your suggestion is helpful regardless, the Waterfarm helped me find some other inspiring examples. I guess I'm going to build an "AeroFlo" clone, with a slightly larger rez and different site layout, and some more room for roots.

Attached is a pic of my current Sugar Punch scrog, 3-4 weeks to go. It's too tight to capture it all in one photo. But it just seems with a system like the one I have in mind it's going to be difficult to check the roots once it's all nailed down to the screen, especially with the big stems I'm aiming for.

Thanks for the reply man!

 

[AWnox]

That's what's up man, those looking great for 3,4 weeks to go. Kudos on the project man, hope it goes well, keep us posted.

 

[zem]

you can easily grow big DWC plants in 12-15" deep. you dont want to make it very wide except if you can aerate the entire surface with airbuubles

 

[Sativied]

Thanks zem, but it's not for a DWC, just the rez for the aero/nft setup. Although I do have a bubbler, the waterfall created by the returning water will contribute to that as well. I'm more worried about temp and ph fluctuations if I go too low or too small.

Finding a suitable container/box I can use for the rez turns out to be harder than I expected so I may not have a lot of choice and go with what I can find. At least I found a cheap place in my area for the pvc, hoses, connectors and stuff.

 

[Sativied]

Made some changes, hopefully improvements, to the design. The T-connector at the end wasn't going to work, so I replaced it with some hoses on both ends, which will be more convenient for moving/opening the rez. The curved pieces are longer in reality, I hope I will have plenty of space for roots. If not I'll just add more PVC. I don't expect much from the first round anyway, will be doing a lot of testing and tuning. Picking up the PVC and connectors and stuff tomorrow.

Came up with a different setup for the hoses, since it will be difficult to move the rez or take it out, and I don't have that much height so I want to avoid using a drain at the bottom. Basically with the top tap open and the other closed I can deliver water the system, and with the top tap closed and the bottom one open I can empty the rez and pump it straight to a nearby sink. Just ordered a remote/mountable ph+temp meter but still need to work out something to get better access to the rez.

I also need some sort of distributor for the 8 hoses to which the jets connect, maybe I'll put one together using brass T-connectors.

I'd appreciate any comments/feedback!

 

[Sativied]

Finally got enough pieces to start building. PVC store delivered some wrong pieces, took a while for them to correct it, but with the advantage that I can keep the wrong pieces which I can actually use quite well. I got some extra 45degrees corner pieces that will extend the curve at the end a little and improve the whole path from end of main pipes till rez, so more room for roots.

Still waiting on pump to arrive. It's roughly 300gph - I know, that's not a lot, so it might just end up as backup pump...

I could really use some help with picking the right manifold. Basically it's going through 16mm tyleen hosing from rez and pump to a 12-way manifold for 2 sprayers at each site. The low budget sprayers I'm looking at are 4mm, and so are the outlets on some of the manifolds I found (see attached images). Seems to be drip line stuff for 1gph or so, and I need free full flow or something. At some point I hope to be able to replace the manifold and everything after it (hosing and sprayers) for something more HP and maybe AA, so I'm looking for a cheap solution. Will 4mm hosing from the manifold to sprayers be enough though to get some decent water throughput? (if I missed it in a sticky let me know please!).

 

[Sativied]

Got a lot more pieces but it's starting to look like something similar to the mockup: (see attached pic) It's flat on the floor obviously, once it's in the grow space the curves and hose at the end will go downwards a little. No holes yet because I won't be able to make them in the optimal location until I know precisely how it will fit in the grow space, which won't be until my current grow is finished in about a week or two.

 

[Sativied]

Almost got all the parts in! Waiting for manifold, pump, netcups, GHE nutes, and power adapter with european plug for my new hanna multimeter (only PH and temp). Basically just need to get rez and sprayjets. The little sprayers like the EZ clone replacement sprayers are tough to find here, and not shipped across the big pond for a normal shipping rate (like 10 bucks for sprayers and 50 for shipping ), so I may have to go with some more advanced alternatives - not making it easier to pick though.

I attached two updated images, this is based on the parts I got and pretty much how it will be in reality too.

Not sure yet whether I will go for 12 sprayers (2 for each site) or for 8 (still 2 for each site but the 2 in middle would be shared).

So 4 sprayers per tray like so: --'--O--'--O--'--O--'-- (in which case the first and last sprayer could be a 180 degrees sprayer with half the volume).

Or 6 sprayers tray like so: --'--O-'--'-O-'--'-O--'--

And since I don't know yet exactly what sprayers I can and will get... Is there a safe max distance between sprayer and netcup?

Another option would be to reduce the number of sites to 4, as in 2 per tray, like so: --'--O--'--'--O--'--

 

[cannabiscultivation]

good work there...subbed

 

[Sativied]

Thanks cc

I finally found a rez. Still not as large as I wanted it, 15 gallon, but it's sturdy, light and air tight so besides holes won't need much work. It's 17" in height, the max, so I will only be able to fill it to 12 gallon or so. There's a 12 gallon version I could add later (and connect with 2" pvc) if it doesn't turn out to be stable enough.

Currently leaning towards starting with 4 sites. I have 5 plants in the same space now (about a week till harvest ) and could have done without the one in the middle. The manifold I got is 8-way and would probably lose too much pressure if I had to split those off, so 4 sites it is.

I also found some micro sprayers in reach, from Gardena, a bit pricy for such simple sprayers but the only ones I can pick up in a local shop. Would these work for my system? http://www.gardena.com/ca/en/water-management/micro-drip-irrigation-system/spray-nozzle-180/ (scroll down for photo of spray it emits, I'm worried it might be to flat).

 

[mr4tune]

Good job man, trust me as much as the build can challenge you, the rewards are well worth it...

I had a hard time finding rez's as well, unless the plastic is hard, the totes, etc. tend to contort once you fill them up due to the weight of the water...

We run 1/2" supply lines with 1/4" spaghetti lines tapped from the supply to the sprayers via top feed is where its at. we have seperate 6 rail systems with 6 holes a rail, plants in every other hole allow you to access the sprayers easily...

Aim the sprayers to hit the walls of the inside chamber, not the roots... You want the deflection of the spray stream to reflect into smaller micron size droplets upon impact...

We run a T fitting horizontally off the supply line that is off the pumps discharge, we have a quarter turn valve there and a shuttof valve for the supply so that once we do a res change, add the water, we can now have the pump just circulation the water that is in the res at a rate of 1100 GPH, so needless to say your nutes and additives are well mixed before valves are switched and sprayers hit the roots again...

Sorry for hijacking bro, excited to see how this turns out for you, ive pulled up the pail and cant wait to watch it unfold. Im usually on another fourm but interested in what aero peepz are doing elsewhere.. hollar if you need any help...looks like your on your way...

 

[Sativied]

I think I'm going for 3 holes per tray but only use 2 for now so I can access the inside better through the center hole (and pipe ends as they are not all glued, some have a rubber edge on the inside). I do expect to be able to pull out the sprayers from the top though.

I'll be sure to test the rez to see if it keeps in shape sort of speak once I fill it - before cutting holes in it (can send it back in 30 days). Read a couple of reviews from people using it to store fluids (as well as for camper toilet container...), so I think it will do.

We run 1/2" supply lines with 1/4" spaghetti lines tapped from the supply to the sprayers via top feed is where its at.

See the attached image for the main part of my supply line, it's 16mm (about 2/3") tyleen (hdpe, will be taped with alu tape) hosing with a 1/2" thread at the top on which the manifold will be screwed. From there it will divide into 8 1/4" lines. The supply part can theoretically handle up to 150PSI so reusable if I ever want to go something more high pressure. I can empty the rez with the pump as well with the valves and the T connection in it, by attaching a long hose that goes to a sink across the hall. And (thanks for the suggestion!) mix with the pump by attaching a shorter hose that goes back into the rez. I love these connectors, it's like My First Plumbing toys.

As for the bold part, I got nearly 10 feet left of the supply hose, I did consider just adding a T connection on top of the supply part in the attached image and continue the supply line along the pvc pipes, and then tap straight from the supply line (as most seem to do with PVC). However, I could not find the proper taps and worried about leaks I went for the manifold. At some point I'll probably get more high pressure 1/2" pvc and redo this part.

Aim the sprayers to hit the walls of the inside chamber, not the roots... You want the deflection of the spray stream to reflect into smaller micron size droplets upon impact...

Owww... ok. I would have expected the droplets to become larger after deflecting against the inside. Any advice on min-max distance from sprayer to pot? I guess I'll just have to test first with the sprayers I can get. I see a lot of people using 360 degree sprayers, wouldn't those always hit the roots?

Thanks for the reply man!

 

[mr4tune]

Well the 360's actually have a small post on either side that holds up the plate that the water deflects off of to create the spray, so when you thread em in to the 1/4 line and tun on the pump you can see that there is a more, "front and back" rather than a whole 360 effect. I imagined the only thing close to 360 coverage to that effect is the spinners...

Nice job on the plumbing for the rez, it really makes everything allot easier on the back

Yeah when you punch the barbs through the supply lines you chase leaks till they are all sealed, thats the downside. Not so bad if you are running a drip system or a low pump pressure... Ive seen the setups you speak of and if it works, do er up...

As for spacing, however you space your plant sites, put a sprayer on either side... I have sprayers at the very front over the drains for each rail because the roots will fill the entire tube so cover the roots...

Off pic you are going mag drive pump? interested to see the res temps etc. compared to the submersibles...

peace

 

[mr4tune]

ill post up some pics of a few of the systems, roots, yadda yadda, wont be for a few days till i can travel to the location...

Im not sure your situation, but judging from your planning i believe you to be well aware of how much can go wrong with these systems...

If you can check in everyday then you will be fine, we have had quite a few close calls from breakers tripping and shutting down pumps, to leaks in the supply lines, finally with the cracks in the 40 gal rez's from the sheer hydrostatic weight of the fluid...

Got lots to talk about but no time now, be back on later bro..

4tune...

 

[Sativied]

Ok I won't get the 180 sprayers then, because it would point only to one side of the inner walls. It seems the 360 micro sprayers from gardena have more 360 degree coverage than the ez clone jets and similar, instead of two posts on each side it has about a dozen posts (and hence holes) all around. I could clog the one(s) pointing to the net cup though but I think I need to look further.

I need to heat the room in which I grow, in particular the air I suck in the grow closet, otherwise the temps drops too low at night and day. Not like that the entire year but I may have to do more heating than cooling overall. I am going to tape in "everything" with aluminum duct tape to prevent too much heat from the light. I need to do some testing with the pump submersed as well but it will probably be inline outside the res.

I've been looking at all sorts of timers for many hours, trying to find one that can handle minutes and is not $70+, but after reading about more similar setups I get the impression many run the pump 24/7. I was thinking of doing something like 10 min on, 20 min off and less often during nighttime.

I'm indeed aware systems like this require more attention, that's partly why I choose for this setup, I want something to tinker with, yet eventually automate the whole thing as much as possible including the monitoring. I'll be in the next room pretty much all the time, checking a couple to a dozen of times a day. The grow closet has a mailbox to peek inside and a webcam pointed at temp and humidity, and the hanna wall mountable ph and temp meter (still need to measure ec/ppm with a handheld thingy).

The bottom of the grow closet will be covered with pond foil with edges high enough to contain the contents of the entire rez so I'm counting on the possibility of leaks as well.

I look forward to the pics, and thanks again for the advice, I appreciate it!

 

[Xare]

I like Hempy for a grow in a Tight Space. Because your grow system is only as tall as your bucket.

Adding drip irrigation makes you fully automated.

 

[Sativied]

Adding drip irrigation makes you fully automated.

Yeah but where the fun in that. Having it automated as in being done with it and making it myself easy is not the goal, I can do that on soil, it's more about the process.

Frankly all I knew about hempy when I started on this project is what's in the first post of the World of Hempy thread, but I still would have picked this system regardless. I'm not looking for the best yielding or most convenient system, I grow for personal use only and actually want to spent some time more on it. I grow on soil with bio nutes only currently, so no ph and ppm, just water on top of enriched soil with now and then a little extra. Effective enough, but boring... The system I'm working on now just seems a whole lot more fun. I agree though from the little I've seen, if the goal was to pick the best and most convenient method for a tight space, hempy seems more appropriate than this.

 

[mr4tune]

Yeah we run the pumps 24/7, the cycled on/off IMO is for HP applications where you are able to support and build a plants air roots, dry times arent so beneficial for the NFT style roots that are in the bottom of the pipe, again IMO...Havent done a side by side, but main reason being the on/off is hard on the pumps...

We be running the submersible pumps as stated before, with lights on the rez temps are still at around 72 with no chiller, at night those temps drop quite a bit.. Always thought that the 24/7 pump heat keeps the rez's from dropping too much and creating a rez temp differential from lights on/off that could have negative effects on the plants, i think anyways...

We have also had to run space heaters in the rooms that are lights off during night as the outside temps drop shall we say.... significantly
We run, i believe they are called, win100's (?) have to check them out, found them on amazon.com, and they are a cheap thermo controller with high/low set points, great for night time heating....

Great initiative on the pond liner, preventitive always wins over reactive...

I came from running horiz + vert soilless, i find that LP aero is miles ahead as far as speed, and ease of upkeep... No more dealing with runoff, lag time adjusting pH, bugs, etc... there were times building these units when i wondered if i was crazy for not just picking up a premanufacturered, easier form of hydro but after seeing the speed that plants grow i finally believe in the abilities of this method...

There will always be haters, saying HP is better, or that Vert yields more, yadda yadda, piss off... These units take work to setup, and dial, but especially monocropping, as long as there are no power outages, or leaks, you are good to go, fastest growth i have seen, infact you wont believe it until you see it for yourself... Mad props to the PPK, Hempy, etc. grows where people are minimizing time spent in the room, but for me I like to push the limits to the max, and choose max yield over ease of use...

Personal use? Lol, get ready to have allot more "personal" than your use to lol....

Ill stfu for a while now, ahem... where you at with the build bro?



Latez...
4tune