1st time
- Thread starter fil7
- Start date
advice please
Jack Harer
Well-Known Member
If it were me, I'd just go down to the nearest reputable nursery and get a bag of their "house mix" potting soil (No added nutes, of course). If you're gonna go organic, amend that with your organic nutes and be sure it's buffered (limed) properly to keep the pH right.
Contrary to popular opinion, soil is just a medium for the roots. As long as it has good structure with good drainage and water retention you are good to go. Unless you just got it like that and have the need to throw money away. The differences are in what they put in their soils. If you get a good basic potting soil mix and add your own nutrients you'll be ahead of the game by knowing whats in there rather than guessing or taking their word on it. I have heard a lot of negatives about the whole FF line ranging from unstable pH (not enough lime) to it being somehow "too hot" for seedlings (Kinda hard to do in organics). Seems kinda silly to pay someone to mix your soils for you. To me it's more about learning to be a better grower than buying the "popular, over hyped brand name" stuff.
If you're not ordering it online (and shipping will kill ya on soil) I'd avoid the "Hydro" shop like the plague. All the cops have to do is sit there and take down tag #s and start watching the people they find going in. There is very little, if anything, that one can get in the hydro shop that cant be had elsewhere, usually for less money.
Contrary to popular opinion, soil is just a medium for the roots. As long as it has good structure with good drainage and water retention you are good to go. Unless you just got it like that and have the need to throw money away. The differences are in what they put in their soils. If you get a good basic potting soil mix and add your own nutrients you'll be ahead of the game by knowing whats in there rather than guessing or taking their word on it. I have heard a lot of negatives about the whole FF line ranging from unstable pH (not enough lime) to it being somehow "too hot" for seedlings (Kinda hard to do in organics). Seems kinda silly to pay someone to mix your soils for you. To me it's more about learning to be a better grower than buying the "popular, over hyped brand name" stuff.
If you're not ordering it online (and shipping will kill ya on soil) I'd avoid the "Hydro" shop like the plague. All the cops have to do is sit there and take down tag #s and start watching the people they find going in. There is very little, if anything, that one can get in the hydro shop that cant be had elsewhere, usually for less money.
Nullis
Moderator
For seedlings in particular, Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 would be my first choice, add earthworm castings and it is perfect. Followed by FF Light Warrior, Happy-Frog (for clones) or even plain Sunshine Mix will work.
Materials make a difference though, they aren't all the same and vary in other characteristics that you listed. From the perspective of organics in particular different organic mediums have different Cation Exchange Capacities and qualities. e.g. I really prefer coir in my mixes and less perlite than most people would use. I like a certain variety of coir, but coir in general has more favorable pH characteristics than sphagnum, and also very good at remaining aerated while wet.
Otherwise, I don't really understand what you mean. For instance, the hydro store is definitely closer and more convenient for me than any nursery. And as I understand some carry products from the same brands or their distributors (i.e. SunLight Supply which distributes EVERYTHING). I don't see a problem with buying from a 'hydro' or more appropriately 'Indoor' grow shop. It is still supporting my local economy; better than buying stuff from online.
Honestly, can't be spending too much time preparing soils. It is still easier to take something like Ocean Forest and amend that a little bit or mix it with SAM#4 to a consistency I like and just add azomite and dolomite lime. OF usually isn't good for seedlings, though, and they don't need it. In a couple weeks they should be transplanted.
During this transplant lime should definitely be added to whatever you are using (Azomite has many trace elements and also raises pH). Cannabis needs a good amount of Ca (and Mg) to thrive, and you need it to be there long term even if you don't transplant during flower and use low ppm water. That alone is reason to add additional lime every transplant, and perhaps even something like CaMg+ to all water especially if your source is filtered, distilled or rain.
Materials make a difference though, they aren't all the same and vary in other characteristics that you listed. From the perspective of organics in particular different organic mediums have different Cation Exchange Capacities and qualities. e.g. I really prefer coir in my mixes and less perlite than most people would use. I like a certain variety of coir, but coir in general has more favorable pH characteristics than sphagnum, and also very good at remaining aerated while wet.
Otherwise, I don't really understand what you mean. For instance, the hydro store is definitely closer and more convenient for me than any nursery. And as I understand some carry products from the same brands or their distributors (i.e. SunLight Supply which distributes EVERYTHING). I don't see a problem with buying from a 'hydro' or more appropriately 'Indoor' grow shop. It is still supporting my local economy; better than buying stuff from online.
Honestly, can't be spending too much time preparing soils. It is still easier to take something like Ocean Forest and amend that a little bit or mix it with SAM#4 to a consistency I like and just add azomite and dolomite lime. OF usually isn't good for seedlings, though, and they don't need it. In a couple weeks they should be transplanted.
During this transplant lime should definitely be added to whatever you are using (Azomite has many trace elements and also raises pH). Cannabis needs a good amount of Ca (and Mg) to thrive, and you need it to be there long term even if you don't transplant during flower and use low ppm water. That alone is reason to add additional lime every transplant, and perhaps even something like CaMg+ to all water especially if your source is filtered, distilled or rain.
Jack Harer
Well-Known Member
Materials differ, yes.... but good media is good media. As long as you have good structure, drainage, water retention, CEC, etc it doesn't matter where you got it. But you seem to have a good handle on it. This was directed to the OP tho
My suggestions were only that. If you don't have time, or resources to do it, by all means buy pre-mixed. I only suggest people try making their own if possible. The pre-mix industry is ideal for most folks, especially urban or suburbanites with jobs, families, etc.
The hydro stores are STILL a questionable source in MY book. It's a one stop shop for all things growing pot, very convenient for most, including LEO looking for intel. Too many horror stories of people getting busted and the investigations began at the doors of the local hydro shops. There are numerous law suits ongoing now brought against LEO by store owners for "harassing customers". NO law prohibits LEO from looking a bit closer at customers who frequent businesses known or commonly believed to cater to the Marijuana Growing industry, nor is it a violation of privacy or civil rights for them to do so. There are many instances of local LEO actually setting up shop as Hydro Stores. However if you are comfy doing it...again, by all means keep on keeping on.
The thing to keep in mind is that many of the products they have in the hydro stores are NOT found in main-stream garden centers, and are pretty much marketed specifically to MJ growers. In court I'd much rather try to explain away mainstream potting soil bags and Miracle-Gro Blood meal bags (example only), items that could be found in most homes than I would FFoF bags, or some other MJ specific nutrient bottles that may have been found in my trash. Just a thought. I just went thru all that and I am STILL oinkin from the boinkin 3 years later!!! If convenience takes precedence over good security practices, you just MAY wanna re-examine your priorities.
Nullis
Moderator
... And again, I am not seeing how shopping at a grow store, as a matter of convenience (or not) is taking precedence over good security practices. These things are not mutually exclusive. Such a mentality, it seems to me, fails to consider a couple of things. One is that grow stores and their local atmospheres differ about as much as styles and methods of growing do. The other thing is that if you, yourself, see these stores\products solely as a "one stop shop for all things growing pot" and go in their with that mentality- or god forbid you do get questioned by LEO, well in that case it is no wonder they might be suspicious.
FFOF bags and "MJ-specific" nutrients? If you can't come to terms with the fact that most of these products, really, are NOT marketed specifically to MJ growers, you are driving the nails into your own coffin.
Don't help re-enforce this stereotype, tho, because people definitely grow other things besides cannabis indoors and they definitely go to "hydro stores" for the supplies. Furthermore some supplies such as ballasts, other lighting equipment and bulbs, HO inline fans, carbon filters, durable square containers, fabric pots, plastic trays, rooting hormone and plugs for clones, etc. can only be found in my area at the grow shop. The grow shop carries some of same things the hardware store does, too, and at the grow shop some things are cheaper! Case in point more varieties and larger bags of Espoma granular plant foods.
I think the same common sense rules to buying supplies at a "grow shop" apply to home improvement stores and nurseries as well. Dress normal, act natural, pay cash where ever possible, make sure you're not being followed and for added peace of mind use somebody else's vehicle, or get a ride from someone and don't bring the supplies directly back to where you are growing. And one could, just the same, arouse suspicions by buying lots of certain supplies at a home improvement/nursery/garden center. Especially in the dead of winter.
FFOF bags and "MJ-specific" nutrients? If you can't come to terms with the fact that most of these products, really, are NOT marketed specifically to MJ growers, you are driving the nails into your own coffin.
Don't help re-enforce this stereotype, tho, because people definitely grow other things besides cannabis indoors and they definitely go to "hydro stores" for the supplies. Furthermore some supplies such as ballasts, other lighting equipment and bulbs, HO inline fans, carbon filters, durable square containers, fabric pots, plastic trays, rooting hormone and plugs for clones, etc. can only be found in my area at the grow shop. The grow shop carries some of same things the hardware store does, too, and at the grow shop some things are cheaper! Case in point more varieties and larger bags of Espoma granular plant foods.
I think the same common sense rules to buying supplies at a "grow shop" apply to home improvement stores and nurseries as well. Dress normal, act natural, pay cash where ever possible, make sure you're not being followed and for added peace of mind use somebody else's vehicle, or get a ride from someone and don't bring the supplies directly back to where you are growing. And one could, just the same, arouse suspicions by buying lots of certain supplies at a home improvement/nursery/garden center. Especially in the dead of winter.
Cooter@666
Well-Known Member
What a bunch of trivial horseshit! Why is there a need to complicate a simple question? Seems like egos override common sense on this site.
Buy your soil from where ever you want! Buying your soil should be the least of your worries, unless you live on the moon! I really like Sunshine Mix #4 or Black Gold they're both inert soils that you can purchase at a hydro store or a Garden Center.
This plant is in SHM#4 amended with casting, dolomite, and Fox Farms Marine Cuisine dry granular fertilizer.
View attachment 2516826
Buy your soil from where ever you want! Buying your soil should be the least of your worries, unless you live on the moon! I really like Sunshine Mix #4 or Black Gold they're both inert soils that you can purchase at a hydro store or a Garden Center.
This plant is in SHM#4 amended with casting, dolomite, and Fox Farms Marine Cuisine dry granular fertilizer.
View attachment 2516826
Nullis
Moderator
IDK man, I don't think it is just "trivial horse shit" or has anything to do with my "ego". I was pretty much saying the same thing you just did, and added that it is kind of ridiculous for a pot grower to assume that soils like Ocean Forest and bottled organic supplements\nutrients are "exclusively for marijuana" or that grow shops sell only to pot growers. There is no sound basis for such a sentiment, especially from a pot grower. Even cannabis growers typically grow other things indoors and out.
And there are no simple questions on this website.
And there are no simple questions on this website.
Jack Harer
Well-Known Member
Nullis,
It's not that I have that opinion, but ever since they opened the local store here, the LEO in my area does, and in ATL, Knoxville and everywhere else I have ever been do as well. I just went thru all that a couple 3 years ago.
But you're right, and it's all good.
It's not that I have that opinion, but ever since they opened the local store here, the LEO in my area does, and in ATL, Knoxville and everywhere else I have ever been do as well. I just went thru all that a couple 3 years ago.
But you're right, and it's all good.
Nullis
Moderator
Yeah, that's kind of what I figured, that you lived in a more "conservative" region or something. I just wouldn't want someone dying of worry the first time they visit a local "grow" store to pick up some SAM#4, or something. Their paranoia could give em away!
Just thankful to live somewhere with medical, where they follow the constitution a little bit, where the town cops can't generally pursue you into the city for buying plant food and the Staties are too busy glorifying their importance to public safety to actually protect it.
Just thankful to live somewhere with medical, where they follow the constitution a little bit, where the town cops can't generally pursue you into the city for buying plant food and the Staties are too busy glorifying their importance to public safety to actually protect it.
