1st time journal: 6 plants, rdwc, 1000w, lemon skunk

[booort]

Trying to figure out what is different between the lemon skunk and the bag seeds. Why the bag seeds are doing well but 2 of the skunks look like crap now. One thing I noticed is the water level of the buckets for the skunk is higher than the water level of the buckets for the bag seed. The water level of the skunk is about 1/2" below the net pot. The water level of the bag seeds is about 3" - 4" below the net pot. The skunk are being top fed now with a cycle timer for the last 24 hours. The bag seed have had no top feed for several days. Maybe this is a sign of over watering?

Removed 2 gallons from the set of skunk buckets to decrease the water level, and decreased the cycle timer to top feed for 5 minutes, then 60 minutes off. Hope this helps.

Should also mention I had a bad 1000w MH bulb. Luminex is the brand I believe. Hydro shop replaced it, said it was the first one they had seen go bad with less than an hour on it.

 

[booort]

Moved both control buckets out of the room finally. Built a reservoir out of a 12 gallon cooler, this is connected to the 3 bagseeds. Right next to it is the other control bucket that is connected to 3 lemon skunks. Decided to run each one side by side to see if it makes a temperature difference. After a day, the cooler is at 67 degrees, and the bucket is 69 degrees. Adding a frozen 1 gallon container twice a day is the plan.



The commercial air pump is the loudest thing in the room, it was vibrating on it's shelf like crazy. It rubbed it's black rubber feet all over and was making a mess. Decided to try to hang it from a bungie cord and it seems to help some with the noise and it's not making black streaks all over the shelf anymore. Closer to the AC unit on the wall, not sure if it's gonna help temps much but can't hurt.



I still have 2 "sets" of buckets. Each set is now attached with 3/4" poly tubing and 1/2" poly tubing. Originally I built them with 1/2" tubing but the more I read, the more I wished I had used 1" tubing. I couldn't find any 1" grommets or bulk heads at 2 different hydro shops (or home depot/lowes) so I was stuck using the 3/4" bulk heads to make the connections. At least these 3/4" connectors have a plastic screen attachment that prevents any big pieces of hydroton getting stuck.

I should have re built everything with the 3/4" connectors (one bucket is stuck with only 1/2" connections still) but I am trying to stay out of the hydro shops because everytime I go in there I seem to spend $100 no matter what. Last trip to get just a few grommets I wound up leaving with a $75 short cycle timer for top feeding at the advice of the shop owner. As a noob, it's easy to get talked into buying things by the experts.

The 3 bag seed net pots are being recirculated by 1/2" tubing connected to an inline water pump. The 3 lemon skunk are connected to a DIY top feed made of 1/2" poly tubing with several 1/4" barbed connectors poked through it to shoot water on top just under the hydroton. The 3 top feeds are connected to a short cycle timer that waters for 5 minutes on and then 5 minutes off. Again, running these side by side to see if one way performs better than the other.



It's so nice to have space to move about in the room now. All 6 are under the 1000W MH in an air conditioned sealed room with one of those mushroom CO2 bags. Temp stays in the mid 70's consistently and humidity around 25%. The light is hanging just about 2 and half feet above the top of the buckets. Plan is to slowly move this lower, but at this point I would like a little stretch because I made a big mistake when planting the rockwool cubes in the net pots. Placed the rockwool cube too low in the netpot, so it's hard to cover the hyrdroton with something to prevent light from getting in when they are young like this. Next time I'll place the cubes much higher.

Lemon Skunk day 15:



2 of them still look like crap I think. I am not really sure what the problem is. pH is ok, ppm at 400 with very weak nutrients, plenty of bubbles in the buckets, water temp 69 degrees, room temp 75ish. I am wondering if it might be a nitrogen deficiency. Hope they rebound. I don't think it's nutrient burn.

3 bagseeds day 19:



These are looking much better than the lemon skunks. They have had nearly identical conditions, same nutrients etc. Only difference has been these were not top fed at all for a couple days, they essentially were not RDWC at all for a brief period, they were in their own self contained buckets while I was fixing leaks and rebuilding. The water level was a little lower as well, had about 3" of space between bottom of netpot and the water level of the buckets.

For what it's worth, I know I am rambling on and on and nobody is reading this other than Bleedsgreen, but that's cool because I think I will enjoy looking back on this thread in a year and seeing what I've learned. If anyone else stumbles across this post, feel free to tell me "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG", I won't take offense and am trying to figure this out as I go.

 

[m420p]

The water level was a little lower as well, had about 3" of space between bottom of netpot and the water level of the buckets.

Hey, here to help if you need it, I'm subed. Pertaining to the quote above, that is also another reason that I did my system the way it is. Even as solution evaporates or gets used by the plants, the solution level in the buckets stays where it is at. Only the level in the res. goes down.

I see your new system is overall different than how it works than mine but compared to your other system with the 1/2 inch poly near the bottom of the buckets, I think you'll be in way better shape.

 

[BleedsGreen]

Hey, here to help if you need it, I'm subed. Pertaining to the quote above, that is also another reason that I did my system the way it is. Even as solution evaporates or gets used by the plants, the solution level in the buckets stays where it is at. Only the level in the res. goes down.

I see your new system is overall different than how it works than mine but compared to your other system with the 1/2 inch poly near the bottom of the buckets, I think you'll be in way better shape.

Thanks for lending a hand here, I have no DWC experience, but do want to encourage and help in general plant health. I am sure booort will love having you along for the ride and appreciate all advise you can lend.

 

[m420p]

Thanks for lending a hand here, I have no DWC experience, but do want to encourage and help in general plant health. I am sure booort will love having you along for the ride and appreciate all advise you can lend.

Ya, he was checking out my journal and asked if I'd check out his journal and help him out. Even if you don't know a lot about DWC or RDWC at least you took the time to try and help, a lot more than some people with the experience and knowledge of DWC tend to do.

 

[booort]

Hey, here to help if you need it, I'm subed. Pertaining to the quote above, that is also another reason that I did my system the way it is. Even as solution evaporates or gets used by the plants, the solution level in the buckets stays where it is at. Only the level in the res. goes down.

I see your new system is overall different than how it works than mine but compared to your other system with the 1/2 inch poly near the bottom of the buckets, I think you'll be in way better shape.

Yeah I really wish I made the holes for the return lines the way you did. I have spent way too much time on these buckets so I am stuck with what I have until it completes, but in a few months I will be making the holes at same level as yours. Thanks a ton...if only I saw your journal before I started putting things together.

When I change the nutes in the coming days I am going to connect all 6 buckets (instead of just the 3 now) through another water pump to recirculate the way yours are. I think you said you run the 1/2" tubing into the bucket with an elbow then down about 8", right? So does the 1/2" tubing sit inside the bucket below the water line or does it create a kind of waterfall effect above the waterline? Hope that made sense.

I am really worried about the 2 skunk plants that look like the leaves are curling down and don't look healthy green. Tried post in newbie central for help but think I ask too much for one post and don't get answer. Don't want to spam the forum again a few days later begging for help either. I'll post another pic of them tomorrow, I think they might be getting worse. Figures, all the free bag seeds are doing fine but the expensive feminized seeds looks like 2 of them are going south due to my inability to diagnose what they are telling me.

 

[m420p]

Yeah I really wish I made the holes for the return lines the way you did. I have spent way too much time on these buckets so I am stuck with what I have until it completes, but in a few months I will be making the holes at same level as yours. Thanks a ton...if only I saw your journal before I started putting things together.

When you do eventually remake your system in a few months and plan on doing the same as my system here's a few pointers:
-Make sure your buckets are raised a bit so there is enough depth in your res. for the pump and anticipate solution loss from plant uptake so the more depth, the longer you can wait(until water drops to the top of pump) to add more water and nutes.
-When doing the 1 inch connections on the buckets, put the top of the connections about a inch or so below where the bottom of your net pot would sit in the bucket. With my four buckets, 2 returns, and the size pump I have, the water line in the buckets sits just under the top of each 1 inch connection which is about perfect because I put the top of those connections about a inch in a half below where the bottom of the net pot sits.

When I change the nutes in the coming days I am going to connect all 6 buckets (instead of just the 3 now) through another water pump to recirculate the way yours are. I think you said you run the 1/2" tubing into the bucket with an elbow then down about 8", right? So does the 1/2" tubing sit inside the bucket below the water line or does it create a kind of waterfall effect above the waterline? Hope that made sense.

Ya, I have poly running down under the water line, I have thought about not putting any poly on the elbow and doing the waterfall thing but I like turbulence in the solution throughout the bucket. I'm having doubts about what you plan on doing in the coming days judging by the pictures I have seen. Unless your using your res as a control bucket. In other words, whatever level your res. is at is the level your buckets are at? I guess it could work that way as long as the water is going in the res. through the return tubing at the same rate or faster if needed.

I am really worried about the 2 skunk plants that look like the leaves are curling down and don't look healthy green. Tried post in newbie central for help but think I ask too much for one post and don't get answer. Don't want to spam the forum again a few days later begging for help either. I'll post another pic of them tomorrow, I think they might be getting worse. Figures, all the free bag seeds are doing fine but the expensive feminized seeds looks like 2 of them are going south due to my inability to diagnose what they are telling me.

I'll try to help you if I can.

 

[booort]

When you do eventually remake your system in a few months and plan on doing the same as my system here's a few pointers:
-Make sure your buckets are raised a bit so there is enough depth in your res. for the pump and anticipate solution loss from plant uptake so the more depth, the longer you can wait(until water drops to the top of pump) to add more water and nutes.
-When doing the 1 inch connections on the buckets, put the top of the connections about a inch or so below where the bottom of your net pot would sit in the bucket. With my four buckets, 2 returns, and the size pump I have, the water line in the buckets sits just under the top of each 1 inch connection which is about perfect because I put the top of those connections about a inch in a half below where the bottom of the net pot sits.

Ya, I have poly running down under the water line, I have thought about not putting any poly on the elbow and doing the waterfall thing but I like turbulence in the solution throughout the bucket. I'm having doubts about what you plan on doing in the coming days judging by the pictures I have seen. Unless your using your res as a control bucket. In other words, whatever level your res. is at is the level your buckets are at? I guess it could work that way as long as the water is going in the res. through the return tubing at the same rate or faster if needed.


I'll try to help you if I can.

Understood, this is a big help, thanks for the explanation. I'll reference this when I rebuild the buckets next cycle.

I like the idea of the turbulence from the poly tubing in the water as well, maybe I will connect 2 of the 3 buckets like this and have 1 as a waterfall effect to see if makes a noticeable difference. Might be too many other factors involved though to show if one way is better than the other.

I use the cooler and 5 gallon bucket that are not in the room as more of a "control bucket" to pH and add water/nutes if needed. I haven't started to build a res like yours with the float valve yet, but will be tackling that in the coming weeks. The water level of the control buckets is way below the level of the netpots right now. I need to play around with the correct amount to raise the netpot buckets above the control. Working ok now and not sure how bad it is that the control bucket water level is several inches lower than net pot buckets. I put frozen 1 gallon containers in the control buckets 2 times a day, so that raises the water level somewhat.

As for the plants themselves, I'd say it's stunted growth at this point, I don't notice much growth but that could just be me. Today I noticed the largest bagseed started to look like one of the leaves is starting to curl like the other 3 skunk plants.

Bagseed showing signs of a problem today, leaf looks in the top of the photo looks like it's starting to curl some like the skunks were showing days ago





Lemon skunk with slow growth, very light green color (yellowing?) and the points on the leaves still look like they curl down a little:




I am thinking I might want to drain everything and start over with the nutrients. It's only been about 4 days since I changed everything. I've spent hours looking through pictures of deficiencies and the best guess I have is maybe nitrogen or magnesium deficiency. I think I might need to up the strength of the CalMag some so it is fed at the full 5ml/gal instead of 60% strength like I did last time (3ml/gal)? I don't think it's nutrient burn but what the hell do I know at this point.

pH staying at 5.7-5.9, ppm is now at 350 (dropped 50) for the set of bagseeds, still at 400 for the set of skunks. Water temp rose overnight to 71 degrees, filled control buckets back up with frozen ice jugs this morning. Room temp in the mid 70s, humidity around 30%.

So you don't have to look through previous posts, here is the nutrients I added when I filled things up a few days ago:
Botanicare line:
CalMag - 60% recommended week 1 veg
Liquid Karma - 50% of recommended week 1 veg
Veg formula - 50%
Silica - 33%
roots excelurator - full strength (1ml/gal)

Maybe drain everything and re feed with full strength CalMag and a little higher dosage of the veg formula?

Any suggestions are very very much appreciated.

 

[m420p]

Understood, this is a big help, thanks for the explanation. I'll reference this when I rebuild the buckets next cycle.

I like the idea of the turbulence from the poly tubing in the water as well, maybe I will connect 2 of the 3 buckets like this and have 1 as a waterfall effect to see if makes a noticeable difference. Might be too many other factors involved though to show if one way is better than the other.

I use the cooler and 5 gallon bucket that are not in the room as more of a "control bucket" to pH and add water/nutes if needed. I haven't started to build a res like yours with the float valve yet, but will be tackling that in the coming weeks. The water level of the control buckets is way below the level of the netpots right now. I need to play around with the correct amount to raise the netpot buckets above the control. Working ok now and not sure how bad it is that the control bucket water level is several inches lower than net pot buckets. I put frozen 1 gallon containers in the control buckets 2 times a day, so that raises the water level somewhat.

As for the plants themselves, I'd say it's stunted growth at this point, I don't notice much growth but that could just be me. Today I noticed the largest bagseed started to look like one of the leaves is starting to curl like the other 3 skunk plants.

Bagseed showing signs of a problem today, leaf looks in the top of the photo looks like it's starting to curl some like the skunks were showing days ago

View attachment 2515050



Lemon skunk with slow growth, very light green color (yellowing?) and the points on the leaves still look like they curl down a little:

View attachment 2515051


I am thinking I might want to drain everything and start over with the nutrients. It's only been about 4 days since I changed everything. I've spent hours looking through pictures of deficiencies and the best guess I have is maybe nitrogen or magnesium deficiency. I think I might need to up the strength of the CalMag some so it is fed at the full 5ml/gal instead of 60% strength like I did last time (3ml/gal)? I don't think it's nutrient burn but what the hell do I know at this point.

pH staying at 5.7-5.9, ppm is now at 350 (dropped 50) for the set of bagseeds, still at 400 for the set of skunks. Water temp rose overnight to 71 degrees, filled control buckets back up with frozen ice jugs this morning. Room temp in the mid 70s, humidity around 30%.

So you don't have to look through previous posts, here is the nutrients I added when I filled things up a few days ago:
Botanicare line:
CalMag - 60% recommended week 1 veg
Liquid Karma - 50% of recommended week 1 veg
Veg formula - 50%
Silica - 33%
roots excelurator - full strength (1ml/gal)

Maybe drain everything and re feed with full strength CalMag and a little higher dosage of the veg formula?

Any suggestions are very very much appreciated.

Pertaining to your plants, I would have it at about 350-400 with about 200 ppm of Cal/Mag. I start at about 300-350 overall ppm when they get a good set of leaves and roots. How are your roots looking? Could be waiting on the roots to fill out a bit before they take off. I would up ppm 50-100 every week if plants start to grow at a descent rate and have decent roots. Why would you want to empty all your solution and start over unless you believe you screwed up the ratios( cal/mag:grow:whatever else your using) of your nutes. As long as you have a ppm meter, add the nutes in the right ratios, and just don't go over your goal PPM. I'd start with adding more Cal/mag than you are and then if it doesn't help, bump up everything else as well a little. That skunk looks a bit underfed but I'm not sure.

I'll explain how I make adding nutrients easier for me:
- My distilled water comes in 2.5 gal., I know that two full droppers(which is about 8-10 ml) in that 2.5 gal. gives me about 250-300 ppm of cal/mag in that 2.5 gal. When my plants are a good size, my goal ppm for Cal/mag is about 300 ppm constantly throughout the grow. So, say it's time to add more water and nutes to my res. If I have to add 2 full 2.5 gal. waters to my res to get it to my goal water level in the res. which is marked with a line, I know that the amount of Cal/mag I have to add to my res. is at least 4-5 full droppers. After a few weeks your plants will take some of the Cal./mag out of what is already in your solution so later on in the grow if you haven't changed solution in a while, you'll have to add more than the 2 full droppers per 2.5 gal. waters to make up for what the rest of your solution is losing to the plants(up it to 3 or 4 per 2.5). So in other words when I add my water and cal/mag to my res. I don't even pick up a ppm meter. I watch the plants and if they show any deficiency I start adding more Cal/mag. than the usual per 2.5 gal.

-Now that I've added water and Cal/Mag. I grab the ppm meter, read it and compare to my goal ppm. Say it reads 700 ppm and I want 1100. Because I have a line in my res. that I fill it up to every time I add water and nutes, I know, for the most part how much ppm would be added to my res. and system when adding say 20 ml of Bloom, 8ml of Pro-Tekt, 4 ml. of Mag.-Pro, and any other nutes my schedule calls for. I have thought about writing out a math equation using variables for when adding nutes when the res. is at its goal water level, but I'm really good at math so I can do it in my head. I hope that makes sense. So, back to the 700 and 1100 ppm. I need 400 ppm, and because my res. is at goal water level, I know that adding 20 ml of bloom, 8 ml. of Pro-Tekt, etc. will add say 200 ppm, so to achieve the 400 I need, I'll add 40 ml of bloom, 16 ml. of protekt, etc.

Just thought I would share that. Hope it helps you in some way. I'm going to go post that in my journal too, lol.

Does Botanical have a Nutrient Feeding Schedule your following or are you going by the bottles?

Now pertaining to the system, first thing I have to make clear is you know that the float in my system is only used for when I hook up the top res. for when I leave for extended periods of time. Just making sure. Also, it seems to me it would almost be impossible to make what you have now, into a system that runs like mine. Mine relies on where the 1 inch are on the buckets to control the level in the buckets, so unless you have buckets where you moved those bigger tubes up on the bucket and have them flowing into the res. your system is going to rely on the level in your res., your pump, and resistant getting back into the res.(hard to explain). If I'm telling you stuff you already know just ignore it. I just don't want you to try making a system that works like mine and end of doing something wrong that you can't take back. I'd feel like I didn't do enough to help.

 

[m420p]

"I need to play around with the correct amount to raise the netpot buckets above the control."
Are you talking about raising the water level or raising the buckets? I don't see how raising the buckets would help unless you were to do a system exactly like mine. I could see how it could bring the water level down in the buckets by using gravity to increase pressure through the returns.(read again after reading below)

"Working ok now and not sure how bad it is that the control bucket water level is several inches lower than net pot buckets."
So you have a control bucket and a res. or just a res. I'm confused with these different systems now? If your using your res as a control bucket and have the pump in there which then runs to the buckets and your saying your buckets water level is higher than that of your res.'s, than that is probably caused by not big enough returns or not enough of them. So your buckets are filling up until it hits the point where the pressure pushes the solution in the res. at the same pace or faster than it is pumping it in the buckets. Since your returns are lower than they should be this could be a good thing because it gets that water line closer up to the netpot. The bad thing about that is if you have any clogging at all it will overflow. Of course this is if your system is hooked up the way I think it is.

Just a couple thoughts I had rereading your last post.

 

[booort]

Why would you want to empty all your solution and start over unless you believe you screwed up the ratios( cal/mag:grow:whatever else your using) of your nutes. As long as you have a ppm meter, add the nutes in the right ratios, and just don't go over your goal PPM. I'd start with adding more Cal/mag than you are and then if it doesn't help, bump up everything else as well a little. That skunk looks a bit underfed but I'm not sure.

I was told by someone else that it is much better to swap out all nutrients and only add water in between draining and cleaning once a week. Was explained that even with a ppm meter I have no idea what nutrients the plant is taking in and what is left in the ppm when I read it so it's always best to just drain it all out. Maybe he advised this since I am clearly still a noob at things and am not capable this early in the game of feeding the way you do. Your way is far better, I understand the concept, just not sure I can implement it yet...going to take some time to absorb all this.

I don't know how much say 5ml per gallon of calmag changes my ppm. I failed to record what each nutrient does after I add it. I have the full line of botanicare products and I simply added everything at reduced percentage of what the botanicare feeding chart says and then mearured ppm. Lesson learned, I should know what X amount of each nutrient i am feeding adds to the overall ppm.

I stopped at hydro store on the way home to get more parts to finish up getting all 6 buckets pumping water from the "control bucket" in a similar fashion to the way yours do. I asked about the struggling 2 week old skunks, I told him I was feeding at 33% - 50% of what the feeding chart says (not the dosage on the bottle itself, the chart assuming you use the full line like liquid karma, calmag etc). He said that's your problem right there. The botanicare full feeding chart has been revised and is very close to what it should be fed for the week it's on if using the full line of nutrients from them. If the plants are 2 weeks from sprout, they should be getting close to the full dose of week 1 vegetative stage dosages from the chart.

This is where my noob confusion begins, the more I read/talk the more confused I get on some issues. Some say I am not really in week 1 veg right now and at about 2 weeks from sprout they need nothing but water, I've also read week 1 veg is technically when the first set of leaves come out. I'm learning this is the nature of things with this project, gonna have to be some trial and errors. A lot of errors.

I'd like to come back to some of the build advice of the buckets and reservoir when I have more time. Tonight I am focused on getting these drained, connected correctly with the water pump (remove top feed cycle timer setup for now), learn what ppm of each nutrient does to my water, and fed with the proper dosage so they can become as healthy as possible.

I have no reservoir, just a control bucket is I guess what the definition would be. Same thing as the 12 gallon water cooler I connected, it is just a control at this point I guess. Need to build a reservoir in the coming weeks with the float valves. Your explanation will help tremendously when I start to put it together. Mainly because I am going to have to go out of town for several days at a time in the coming months. I'm out of time tonight, wife is getting really sick of me spending every night in the basement tinkering with this until 2:00 am and I have to get started.

Thanks again m420p, really appreciate you taking the time to explain things clearly in detail. I'll followup with more later.

 

[m420p]

I was told by someone else that it is much better to swap out all nutrients and only add water in between draining and cleaning once a week. Was explained that even with a ppm meter I have no idea what nutrients the plant is taking in and what is left in the ppm when I read it so it's always best to just drain it all out. Maybe he advised this since I am clearly still a noob at things and am not capable this early in the game of feeding the way you do. Your way is far better, I understand the concept, just not sure I can implement it yet...going to take some time to absorb all this.

I don't know how much say 5ml per gallon of calmag changes my ppm. I failed to record what each nutrient does after I add it. I have the full line of botanicare products and I simply added everything at reduced percentage of what the botanicare feeding chart says and then mearured ppm. Lesson learned, I should know what X amount of each nutrient i am feeding adds to the overall ppm.

I stopped at hydro store on the way home to get more parts to finish up getting all 6 buckets pumping water from the "control bucket" in a similar fashion to the way yours do. I asked about the struggling 2 week old skunks, I told him I was feeding at 33% - 50% of what the feeding chart says (not the dosage on the bottle itself, the chart assuming you use the full line like liquid karma, calmag etc). He said that's your problem right there. The botanicare full feeding chart has been revised and is very close to what it should be fed for the week it's on if using the full line of nutrients from them. If the plants are 2 weeks from sprout, they should be getting close to the full dose of week 1 vegetative stage dosages from the chart.

This is where my noob confusion begins, the more I read/talk the more confused I get on some issues. Some say I am not really in week 1 veg right now and at about 2 weeks from sprout they need nothing but water, I've also read week 1 veg is technically when the first set of leaves come out. I'm learning this is the nature of things with this project, gonna have to be some trial and errors. A lot of errors.

I'd like to come back to some of the build advice of the buckets and reservoir when I have more time. Tonight I am focused on getting these drained, connected correctly with the water pump (remove top feed cycle timer setup for now), learn what ppm of each nutrient does to my water, and fed with the proper dosage so they can become as healthy as possible.

I have no reservoir, just a control bucket is I guess what the definition would be. Same thing as the 12 gallon water cooler I connected, it is just a control at this point I guess. Need to build a reservoir in the coming weeks with the float valves. Your explanation will help tremendously when I start to put it together. Mainly because I am going to have to go out of town for several days at a time in the coming months. I'm out of time tonight, wife is getting really sick of me spending every night in the basement tinkering with this until 2:00 am and I have to get started.

Thanks again m420p, really appreciate you taking the time to explain things clearly in detail. I'll followup with more later.

Ok, first, you don't need the float valve, it is serving no purpose in my system at the moment. It is strictly for when I hook up my secondary res. to fill up the regular res. as it loses solution. It shouldn't be in your plans. If your doing a system like me, you should be worried about having your 1 inch connections in the right spots on your buckets, having your buckets above your res. somewhat so there is room for the water to flow in like a waterfall and still enough room for your pump and some solution loss from plant uptake, and make sure you can return more water than you can pump. Even if your not doing it like mine and not using two res.'s then the floats will do you no good. I'm afraid your not completely understanding what I'm saying which sort of scares me because I would feel bad if you did a bunch of stuff just to have it cause you more problems. Please take the time to look over my pictures again.

If your still setting your system up differently and understand how the floats work and have a plan on how your going to use them then forget everything I just said. The floats can actually help you control the height of the solution in your buckets if you had two res.'s, one on top of the other with a float in between, with the bottom res. and your buckets completely level, you would then set your float at the level you want your res. and buckets at. But I doubt that's what your doing so floats shouldn't be in your plans.

Referring to the cleaning, draining, and changing once a week, what a croc. Ideally yes, but I have went through a whole cycle without changing out my nutes, as a matter of fact that was my biggest harvest yet. I have my system down and I let the plants speak to me, if a change is due, I'll know it and do it. I buy my water and imagine how much money I save by not changing weekly. Heck, imagine the Nutes I'm saving on. Sounds like a waste to me. Sure I change it out every 4 or 5 weeks but weekly? please.

Now pertaining to the Feeding schedule. I would use them as more of a guideline and learn to let your plants tell you whether they need more or less. I'd burn the heck out of my plants if I was running dynagros feeding schedule, I can see slight nute burn on some leaf tips while I'm sitting at around 800-900 ppm. Their schedule would call for like 1200 I'm sure.

 

[booort]

If your doing a system like me, you should be worried about having your 1 inch connections in the right spots on your buckets, having your buckets above your res. somewhat so there is room for the water to flow in like a waterfall and still enough room for your pump and some solution loss from plant uptake, and make sure you can return more water than you can pump.

This is the the problem right now I believe, I am barely returning enough water to pump. The pumps might be too strong for the combination of 1/2 and 3/4" return lines. I believe they are 400gph each. Was told 1 would be more than enough to pump to 6 buckets. I have 2 of them (one connected to each control bucket inline - not submersed).

Should I be able to raise the level of the buckets to a high enough level to be able to return more than enough water to the control bucket? I haven't tried elevating them more than about 1.5" yet, I need to find something suitable to stick under the buckets tomorrow.

I did a crappy job of explaining earlier. I don't have float valves or any other reservoir at the moment. I hoped to put something together similar to yours where you only connect it when you leave for a few days. I understand the concept of the float valve reservoir in your pictures and like how it's done.

Unfortunately, I need to make do with the holes where they are in my buckets for this cycle, I was told to install them as low as possible from two different hydro shop owners, but I'm starting to think they don't know everything. It makes more sense for them to be at a higher level like yours. I'm stuck with where the holes are for this go round, disconnecting these things in this small space and putting back together (with nothing leaking) is way more difficult and time consuming than I expected.

The thought of overflowing is terrifying, but I have a little redundancy now I think. 3/4" tubing connects one set of buckets to each other and also from 2 of the 3 buckets back to the control bucket. There is a rectangular 2" plastic screen attachment inside the bucket over each bulkhead as well. I assume these would prevent clogs from roots. The other set has 3/4" tubing with the same plastic screens and also an additional 1/2" line that was left over from the first time I built them. I hope this will be enough for now to prevent problems with overflow due to a clog.

The system is all in place, I have invested far too many hours to go back at this point and rebuild, I am simply out of time and have to make what I have work without leaks for now.

As for the feedings, you're probably right it is a croc, possibly to get me to buy more nutrients more often. Hell, it made sense when he explained how I have no way of knowing which nutes are being eaten up and which are still left in there, so just change it all out weekly. I enjoy doing it for now, but suspect it will get old fast. And expensive.

I went with about 80% of what the feed chart said for now. Tracked what each nute did to the ppm as I added it so I can start trying to get a better understanding of things. Crossing my fingers things improve for the struggling little skunk plants tomorrow.

 

[booort]

bagseeds are 3 weeks from sprout today, look decent I guess:



Lemon skunk at 17 days from sprout:



Overview of room for perspective:





About 12 hours ago I drained and changed the nutrients for the skunks, gave them about 80% of botanicare suggested feed chart. PPM is about 500 (100 of that ppm is CalMag). One still looks to be in pain and I wish I could help her. Wondering if this might be common when planting from seed: you sometimes get one of the bunch that just doesn't do as well.

I'm afraid water temps are going to be an issue. They seem to get close to room temperature within 1 day if I don't add frozen containers to the control buckets every few hours. Wondering if the $300 1/10th hp water chillers I've seen on Amazon are worth a damn. Was told they are garbage (from hydro shop guys of course) and the only chillers that work are at least $1000-$2000. I don't see how I can get the water temps to stay below the ambient room temps without adding frozen 1 gallon jugs throughout the day. No idea what I did wrong that is making the water temp rise to 72-74 degrees within a day. Moving the control buckets outside the room and installing the water pumps inline instead of submersed didn't help as much as I hoped. Worried this is going to become a big problem soon and root rot (pythium?) is inevitable with 74 degree water temps.

Going to elevate the buckets more to get better return flow to the control bucket with attached water pump today. No overflows, no leaks and at least the room temperature is very stable at 75 degrees.

 

[m420p]

This is the the problem right now I believe, I am barely returning enough water to pump. The pumps might be too strong for the combination of 1/2 and 3/4" return lines. I believe they are 400gph each. Was told 1 would be more than enough to pump to 6 buckets. I have 2 of them (one connected to each control bucket inline - not submersed).

Should I be able to raise the level of the buckets to a high enough level to be able to return more than enough water to the control bucket? I haven't tried elevating them more than about 1.5" yet, I need to find something suitable to stick under the buckets tomorrow.

Ya, for the most part, that probably is your problem. But the reason my buckets are raised and the reason you would be raising the buckets are a little different. I raise mine to leave room for the pump and the water to fall. You would be raising yours in hopes that the increase in pressure from gravity would push water back into the res. faster. If you need to bring the water level down in the buckets, that is what I would do with the way your system is set up now. I don't know how much you'll have to raise them to have gravity be enough of a factor to pull the water through to the res. quicker but that's something you'll have to play with.

I did a crappy job of explaining earlier. I don't have float valves or any other reservoir at the moment. I hoped to put something together similar to yours where you only connect it when you leave for a few days. I understand the concept of the float valve reservoir in your pictures and like how it's done.

Ya, I had a feeling you understood it but the way you wrote that last message made me think otherwise.

Unfortunately, I need to make do with the holes where they are in my buckets for this cycle, I was told to install them as low as possible from two different hydro shop owners, but I'm starting to think they don't know everything. It makes more sense for them to be at a higher level like yours. I'm stuck with where the holes are for this go round, disconnecting these things in this small space and putting back together (with nothing leaking) is way more difficult and time consuming than I expected.

The thought of overflowing is terrifying, but I have a little redundancy now I think. 3/4" tubing connects one set of buckets to each other and also from 2 of the 3 buckets back to the control bucket. There is a rectangular 2" plastic screen attachment inside the bucket over each bulkhead as well. I assume these would prevent clogs from roots. The other set has 3/4" tubing with the same plastic screens and also an additional 1/2" line that was left over from the first time I built them. I hope this will be enough for now to prevent problems with overflow due to a clog.

The system is all in place, I have invested far too many hours to go back at this point and rebuild, I am simply out of time and have to make what I have work without leaks for now.

Well, for the way your system is set up now, where it should rely on a control bucket or a res. to control the water level, putting your connections lower on the bucket and having all buckets level with the res. would make sense. You see, your system should have a res. or a control bucket that has a solution height of exactly the same as your buckets. That controls your height and is why it is called a control bucket. Control buckets usually have a float in them with a top res. above it connected to that float. A res. can work the same way without the top res. or float,But if you used the res. as a control and not a control bucket and a top res., as solution gets sucked up by the plants, the solution level will drop in both the res. and buckets. But, if you are pumping too much water out of that control bucket or res. to where your res. solution level is lower than your buckets, than you need to get a smaller pump or remove a pump and split one to all six in your case.

Actually those screens could actually be the cause of a build-up and blockage. Imagine if gunk or roots got blocked up at that screen, it would stop the water flow and have a overflow, just something to think about.

As for the feedings, you're probably right it is a croc, possibly to get me to buy more nutrients more often. Hell, it made sense when he explained how I have no way of knowing which nutes are being eaten up and which are still left in there, so just change it all out weekly. I enjoy doing it for now, but suspect it will get old fast. And expensive.

I went with about 80% of what the feed chart said for now. Tracked what each nute did to the ppm as I added it so I can start trying to get a better understanding of things. Crossing my fingers things improve for the struggling little skunk plants tomorrow.

Ya, if I were you and you weren't spending a lot of money on water, I would go ahead and change the solution every week or two until you have it dialed in and can grow nice healthy plants.

 

[booort]

Control buckets usually have a float in them with a top res. above it connected to that float. A res. can work the same way without the top res. or float,But if you used the res. as a control and not a control bucket and a top res., as solution gets sucked up by the plants, the solution level will drop in both the res. and buckets. But, if you are pumping too much water out of that control bucket or res. to where your res. solution level is lower than your buckets, than you need to get a smaller pump or remove a pump and split one to all six in your case.

It all makes sense now from this explanation. My terminology was wrong, I was calling the res a control bucket and vice versa.

I am going to mess around with elevating the buckets, got some 2" tall cinder blocks. Also was able to find a shop with the 1" bulk heads and 1" tubing. Debating taking it all apart next time i drain and placing the 1" hole at the same height as yours but this is an enormous pain in the ass.

The screen getting clogged like you mentioned has me more worried. Might be worth the time and effort to get the 1" connections done as a fail safe. $3 a pop for the 1" bulkheads. I believe I'll need 16 of them for the 6 net pot buckets and 2 control buckets.

I have it set up as 2 different sets because my initial plan was to have 3 of them in veg constantly under the t5 and 3 in bloom under the 1000W hps in the adjoining room.

Thanks again for the advice, you've been a big help.

 

[m420p]

It all makes sense now from this explanation. My terminology was wrong, I was calling the res a control bucket and vice versa.

I am going to mess around with elevating the buckets, got some 2" tall cinder blocks. Also was able to find a shop with the 1" bulk heads and 1" tubing. Debating taking it all apart next time i drain and placing the 1" hole at the same height as yours but this is an enormous pain in the ass.

The screen getting clogged like you mentioned has me more worried. Might be worth the time and effort to get the 1" connections done as a fail safe. $3 a pop for the 1" bulkheads. I believe I'll need 16 of them for the 6 net pot buckets and 2 control buckets.

I have it set up as 2 different sets because my initial plan was to have 3 of them in veg constantly under the t5 and 3 in bloom under the 1000W hps in the adjoining room.

Thanks again for the advice, you've been a big help.

If I were you I would get smaller pumps because if you try to raise your buckets and use gravity to increase flow, any blockage would cause a overflow. Smaller pumps and using your res. to control your water level would be way better and be less likely to overflow. But if your going to end up changing your system later on down the road you might use those bigger pumps so why not just try and make the bigger ones work for now. Either way I'm sure you'll figure it out.

 

[booort]

If I were you I would get smaller pumps because if you try to raise your buckets and use gravity to increase flow, any blockage would cause a overflow. Smaller pumps and using your res. to control your water level would be way better and be less likely to overflow. But if your going to end up changing your system later on down the road you might use those bigger pumps so why not just try and make the bigger ones work for now. Either way I'm sure you'll figure it out.

I'm considering the smaller pumps now that you mention it, the 400gph pumps I got for $20 each, so I'd imagine smaller ones would be cheaper. Another $30 on pumps and $60 on connections at this point is a just a drop in the bucket after the last month of home depot and hydro shop trips so might as well try to get it right.

Are root clogs in the return lines a common occurrence? I know it's hard to say, but could I expect a good deal of roots to be growing around the return line area? The most overflow prone bucket in the set has 2 separate 1/2" return lines (one to the bucket next to it and one to the control bucket). I'm trying to assess the likelihood of both of those holes getting clogged with roots.

 

[m420p]

I'm considering the smaller pumps now that you mention it, the 400gph pumps I got for $20 each, so I'd imagine smaller ones would be cheaper. Another $30 on pumps and $60 on connections at this point is a just a drop in the bucket after the last month of home depot and hydro shop trips so might as well try to get it right.

Are root clogs in the return lines a common occurrence? I know it's hard to say, but could I expect a good deal of roots to be growing around the return line area? The most overflow prone bucket in the set has 2 separate 1/2" return lines (one to the bucket next to it and one to the control bucket). I'm trying to assess the likelihood of both of those holes getting clogged with roots.

I've had roots clog my 1" and when I went to check on them the water line was just about to overflow in the buckets but I caught it right in time. But that was when I had the same size pump, only one return and two buckets so my water line was like a half inch above the 1 inch connections then. I wouldn't call root clogs a common occurrence but I would ope up my bucket tops every once in a while and check it out. IDK though, I've had different style systems than most people.

 

[booort]

Rebuilt all the buckets with 3/4" bulkhead connections to each bucket next to it in the set, and also back to the control in the other room.



I was running one set of buckets to a 5 gallon control bucket, and the other set to the 12 gallon igloo ice cooler used as a control bucket. The water temperature of the igloo ice chest control seemed to run a few degrees cooler. I built another one:



Bagseeds are spending the night under the t5 in the veg room, going to swap out the 5 gallon control bucket with the cooler tomorrow.