Monsanto cannabis yes or no? The DNA Protection Act of 2013

[fb360]

you're just butthurt that we've got a great economy and everything that goes with it and you're wallowing in austerity... we can accomodate immigration and employment increases that's why the irish are heading here like rats fleeing a sinking ship... the writings on the wall and it's saying one in four...

Immigration increases? You mean to like 100M and then you break. You live on a large island. You only have so much lol.
Most of Australia is crocodiles, snakes and other deadly fucking shit.

 

[echelon1k1]

Immigration increases? You mean to like 100M and then you break. You live on a large island. You only have so much lol.
Most of Australia is crocodiles, snakes and other deadly fucking shit.

Like 23m gonna take a while to get to 100m - all the deadly shit just helps keep the population down - tourists are scared of all the deadly shit

 

[ChesusRice]

Like 23m gonna take a while to get to 100m - all the deadly shit just helps keep the population down - tourists are scared of all the deadly shit

I want to see and explore the great barrier reef

 

[echelon1k1]

I want to see and explore the great barrier reef

Don't come over during our summers way too hot and humid especially up north, best time is between June to October

 

[Harrekin]

Don't come over during our summers way too hot and humid especially up north, best time is between June to October

Yeah the rape-o's and paedos go extra nuts in the heat Iv heard.

 

[burgertime2010]

I am curious about the aspects of this issue that you have ignored....with all due respect. Why genetically modify a coded sequence that evolution has defined? Besides profit, what makes restricting this Un-American exactly? To what experience do you owe your certainty on the matter? Does DNA have intrinsic value...why/why not? Do you ever purchase non-GMO organic produce? Does human evolution technologically negate the sovereignty of all non-humans? In the preceding questions you have a choice to be intellectually honest or dismiss it as the work of a moron. Your input would be appreciated as would a level of respect. I am interested in whether arrogance or intellect motivates your slander and the truth as you know it to be. This is simply your voice, no debate, no links, just answers.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I am curious about the aspects of this issue that you have ignored....with all due respect.

these issues have not been ignored, they have been buried in the bullshit of DNAprotection's linkdumps, welcome back kotter video postings and name calling. ill separate the issues and respond to each individually for ease of access.

Why genetically modify a coded sequence that evolution has defined?

for the same reasons we selectively breed plants into forms which simply cannot survive without our assistance, but provide us with a crop which we desire. we NEED maize wheat rice and other cereal grains, because nothing else provides the nutritional density and long term storage to feed us, and our livestock. any technology, innovation or cultivar which promises to increase productivity or reduce the need for pesticides and fertilizers is very desirable.

Besides profit, what makes restricting this Un-American exactly?

the restrictors seek to stop progress, and ban an entire line of scientific research because of their irrational fears, and telling another person that they cannot do a thing because youre afraid they cant be trusted with it is un-american as a motherfucker.

To what experience do you owe your certainty on the matter?

farming for most of my life. i know the market, i know the pressures a farmer is under and why farms fail. it's all about making the mortgage and paying the property tax, once youve got those two big problems sorted the rest of farming is easy. (comparatively)
any technology or innovation that offers the hope of bigger harvests, less expense in fertilizers and pesticides, and less chance youll loose the entire crop to budworms, boll weevils or locusts is not something you can just snatch away because your afraid that pollen from my feild will contaminate the "native ecoshpere" which does not naturally contain corn, wheat, rice, potatoes, or any other domestic crop. it's just silly, and the stakes are too high for farmers who are already on the hind tit, and up against the wall.

GMO's are not by any stretch a certainty since only a few GMO's have actually fulfilled their promises, most fail miserably, but the technology itself still has the promise of huge success. james watt didnt invent the steam engine, he simply made it better, working on existing steam engines which had been around for 50 years before he was born. thats how technology advances, a slow building on the existing knowledge until sucess makes a revolution occur. back at the time, theree were a group of fools called the Luddites who wanted to ban steam engines and all industrial machines, for their own financial security, but they wer shortsighted fools, as are the fools demanding we abandon all Genetic research because they are afraid, or, like DNAporotection, he has a personal profit motive.

Does DNA have intrinsic value...why/why not?

of course.
any unique cultivar, whether a natural mutant (like the commercial bananas which are ALL every last one, cloned from a single mutant plant, called the Cavendish plant) a selectively bred marvel (like soft winter wheat, which has fed more people than anyone can count) or a GMO from some lab could prove to be of great value, and in those cases, the genetic code of those cultivars are priceless. if you like sweet red juicy apples, red tasty tomatoes, bread of every description, popcorn, sweet corn, meal corn, hominy, wild rice, basmati rice, long grain short grain sushi, etc etc etc all these plants are cultivars and each has it's own unique genetics, and those genetics are valuable. GMO's do not destroy existing cultivars, they ADD to our stock of plants, some winners, some losers, but it is addition, not destruction.

Do you ever purchase non-GMO organic produce?

i prefer the non-gmo varieties both as a grower and as a buyer, since they are good. they are proven, and they deliver. there have as yet been NO successful GMO food crops, since they have all balanced their promised benefits, with equal or greater negatives.
BT corn doesnt really stop the bud worm. or the corn root worm, only reduces the damage, while judicious use of pesticides ENDS the problem, and in the final analysis, the pesticides wind up costing less than the BT seed prices.
roundup ready crops are fucking worthless to most non-corporate farmers since we dont generally use herbicides except to clear weeds around grapevines and fruit and nut trees, and in those cases, it is hand sprayed very carefully by a PCA (professional Pest Control Applicator) and in pastures to control spurge (a deadly poisonous plant that kills livestock if it grows in your pasture, the sap from spurge will blister your skin and when eaten it is lethal) which is the only time any herbicide is sprayed in a wide area.

giant corporate farms which use roundup as their first last and only solution to kill weeds desire a plant which is immune to roundup so they can just hose down their giant feilds indiscriminately, but roundup ready crops are merely RESISTANT to roundup, so when you spray your feild to kill the weeds you fuck up your own crops, so if you use too much, you lose the entire crop, if you use too little you still have weeds which increases the costs for harvest and processing and reduced overall yield, and if you use JUST ENOUGH you reduce your yield a little and kill off almost all the weeds, but in the end you didnt really save that much per acre. but when your tilling half a million acres, an extra $5 an acre really adds up. if youre tilling 50 to 100 acres, not so much.

Does human evolution technologically negate the sovereignty of all non-humans?

the what? dude. sheep dont have sovereignty. nor do cows, and fucking barley and sorghum definately dont.

In the preceding questions you have a choice to be intellectually honest or dismiss it as the work of a moron. Your input would be appreciated as would a level of respect. I am interested in whether arrogance or intellect motivates your slander and the truth as you know it to be. This is simply your voice, no debate, no links, just answers.

i hope this clears up some of your questions.

 

[burgertime2010]

these issues have not been ignored, they have been buried in the bullshit of DNAprotection's linkdumps, welcome back kotter video postings and name calling. ill separate the issues and respond to each individually for ease of access. for the same reasons we selectively breed plants into forms which simply cannot survive without our assistance, but provide us with a crop which we desire. we NEED maize wheat rice and other cereal grains, because nothing else provides the nutritional density and long term storage to feed us, and our livestock. any technology, innovation or cultivar which promises to increase productivity or reduce the need for pesticides and fertilizers is very desirable. the restrictors seek to stop progress, and ban an entire line of scientific research because of their irrational fears, and telling another person that they cannot do a thing because youre afraid they cant be trusted with it is un-american as a motherfucker. farming for most of my life. i know the market, i know the pressures a farmer is under and why farms fail. it's all about making the mortgage and paying the property tax, once youve got those two big problems sorted the rest of farming is easy. (comparatively) any technology or innovation that offers the hope of bigger harvests, less expense in fertilizers and pesticides, and less chance youll loose the entire crop to budworms, boll weevils or locusts is not something you can just snatch away because your afraid that pollen from my feild will contaminate the "native ecoshpere" which does not naturally contain corn, wheat, rice, potatoes, or any other domestic crop. it's just silly, and the stakes are too high for farmers who are already on the hind tit, and up against the wall. GMO's are not by any stretch a certainty since only a few GMO's have actually fulfilled their promises, most fail miserably, but the technology itself still has the promise of huge success. james watt didnt invent the steam engine, he simply made it better, working on existing steam engines which had been around for 50 years before he was born. thats how technology advances, a slow building on the existing knowledge until sucess makes a revolution occur. back at the time, theree were a group of fools called the Luddites who wanted to ban steam engines and all industrial machines, for their own financial security, but they wer shortsighted fools, as are the fools demanding we abandon all Genetic research because they are afraid, or, like DNAporotection, he has a personal profit motive. of course. any unique cultivar, whether a natural mutant (like the commercial bananas which are ALL every last one, cloned from a single mutant plant, called the Cavendish plant) a selectively bred marvel (like soft winter wheat, which has fed more people than anyone can count) or a GMO from some lab could prove to be of great value, and in those cases, the genetic code of those cultivars are priceless. if you like sweet red juicy apples, red tasty tomatoes, bread of every description, popcorn, sweet corn, meal corn, hominy, wild rice, basmati rice, long grain short grain sushi, etc etc etc all these plants are cultivars and each has it's own unique genetics, and those genetics are valuable. GMO's do not destroy existing cultivars, they ADD to our stock of plants, some winners, some losers, but it is addition, not destruction. i prefer the non-gmo varieties both as a grower and as a buyer, since they are good. they are proven, and they deliver. there have as yet been NO successful GMO food crops, since they have all balanced their promised benefits, with equal or greater negatives. BT corn doesnt really stop the bud worm. or the corn root worm, only reduces the damage, while judicious use of pesticides ENDS the problem, and in the final analysis, the pesticides wind up costing less than the BT seed prices. roundup ready crops are fucking worthless to most non-corporate farmers since we dont generally use herbicides except to clear weeds around grapevines and fruit and nut trees, and in those cases, it is hand sprayed very carefully by a PCA (professional Pest Control Applicator) and in pastures to control spurge (a deadly poisonous plant that kills livestock if it grows in your pasture, the sap from spurge will blister your skin and when eaten it is lethal) which is the only time any herbicide is sprayed in a wide area. giant corporate farms which use roundup as their first last and only solution to kill weeds desire a plant which is immune to roundup so they can just hose down their giant feilds indiscriminately, but roundup ready crops are merely RESISTANT to roundup, so when you spray your feild to kill the weeds you fuck up your own crops, so if you use too much, you lose the entire crop, if you use too little you still have weeds which increases the costs for harvest and processing and reduced overall yield, and if you use JUST ENOUGH you reduce your yield a little and kill off almost all the weeds, but in the end you didnt really save that much per acre. but when your tilling half a million acres, an extra $5 an acre really adds up. if youre tilling 50 to 100 acres, not so much. the what? dude. sheep dont have sovereignty. nor do cows, and fucking barley and sorghum definately dont. i hope this clears up some of your questions.

I appreciate your candor and abiding me here, thank you...I will leave you be now.

 

[Dr Kynes]

I appreciate your candor and abiding me here, thank you...I will leave you be now.

dude it's a discussion forum, if you got questions answers or even just ideas, put em out there.

this thread got a little crazy but the assholes have mostly wandered off to troll the anarcho-__________ist threads

if i didnt want to talk about this issue i wouldnt be watching it.

 

[burgertime2010]

That is fair, I just don't want to give the assholes the fight they are looking for. Regardless, my goal here is to teach and be taught, and I just wanted to make good on my promise of no debate. The answers you explained were interesting, like the anti-progressive idea behind non-modified food supporters. All technology is not the same first of all. I don't speak from a place of fear rather a loathing for the degree of arrogance and greed I cannot help but feel pushes the profit motive on this issue. Everything is pennies per pound, the faith I have that our best interests are even thought about is absent completely. It seems that once you blur this line, the rationalizations for business to invade and patent life forms become what progressive becomes. Where is the line for this? Is anything fair game? Nature deserves respect and advocacy.

 

[Dr Kynes]

That is fair, I just don't want to give the assholes the fight they are looking for. Regardless, my goal here is to teach and be taught, and I just wanted to make good on my promise of no debate. The answers you explained were interesting, like the anti-progressive idea behind non-modified food supporters. All technology is not the same first of all. I don't speak from a place of fear rather a loathing for the degree of arrogance and greed I cannot help but feel pushes the profit motive on this issue. Everything is pennies per pound, the faith I have that our best interests are even thought about is absent completely. It seems that once you blur this line, the rationalizations for business to invade and patent life forms become what progressive becomes. Where is the line for this? Is anything fair game? Nature deserves respect and advocacy.

but again, patenting cultivars is not new.

many existing slective and cross bred cultivars were kept as closely guarded trade secrets for decades. plant breeders breed plants for a living, their skill knowledge and talent gives us the plants we crave, but if they cannot make a living at plant breeding or seed selling from their exclusive cultivars, they will not develop new varieties.

much in the way most people getting out of high school dont even consider becoming ferriers these days, since theres not nearly as much demand for horseshoes as there once was, but when my grandfather was a young fellow, his grandpappy told him to become a blacksmith, since horseshoeing is a job with a real future.... and in just a few years everybody was driving automobiles.

if we eliminate the ability to actually make money creating GM crop cultivars then these cultivars will NEVER be developed.

 

[Doer]

Well it takes two to have a forum fight. I can fight, and the Dr. is very scrappy. kpmarine can mix it up. But, what a waste of time. In person, this venom can't happen. (say we are waiting line for a concert, sports, a bus) People know what people will do in person. So, ignore, formally or informally, fight or not, it doesn't matter

Quite a few of us adults around here. And we can suffer the youugun' to provide their lack of experience and education, and discuss it all.

Or.....

Now. Does nature deserve respect, admiration, worship, protection? No.

What is worshiped as Nature often excludes Man. We didn't need to be told we have dominion. And we didn't need to be granted it and we were not. It simply IS reality.

This Nature is either one of two things. It is either the bone pile of mankind or it's the resource to got the hell out of here.

We just stood around while a giant space rock almost hit us....a few weeks ago. Do think it will be any different in a impact event. Yes. PANIC and DEATH before it even gets here.

This place it doomed. I don't worship the bio-skin of this planet. It will be gone. I do think we are beginning finally to husband it a bit more carefully....despite the AGW nuts began pushing world societies toward the intended collision for $$$.

Is clean air, tyranny or freedom. If you can answer that, one way are another....think again. It has no answer, or the answer is both.

 

[Harrekin]

Well it takes two to have a forum fight. I can fight, and the Dr. is very scrappy. kpmarine can mix it up. But, what a waste of time. In person, this venom can't happen. (say we are waiting line for a concert, sports, a bus) People know what people will do in person. So, ignore, formally or informally, fight or not, it doesn't matter

Quite a few of us adults around here. And we can suffer the youugun' to provide their lack of experience and education, and discuss it all.

Or.....

Now. Does nature deserve respect, admiration, worship, protection? No.

What is worshiped as Nature often excludes Man. We didn't need to be told we have dominion. And we didn't need to be granted it and we were not. It simply IS reality.

This Nature is either one of two things. It is either the bone pile of mankind or it's the resource to got the hell out of here.

We just stood around while a giant space rock almost hit us....a few weeks ago. Do think it will be any different in a impact event. Yes. PANIC and DEATH before it even gets here.

This place it doomed. I don't worship the bio-skin of this planet. It will be gone. I do think we are beginning finally to husband it a bit more carefully....despite the AGW nuts began pushing world societies toward the intended collision for $$$.

Is clean air, tyranny or freedom. If you can answer that, one way are another....think again. It has no answer, or the answer is both.

I told a person earlier in real life thaf if he didn't stop annoying me I'd pull his stupid looking ears off.

Speak for yourself bro, you might pretend to like people in real life, I'd rather be blunt as fuck.

Diplomacy is only useful when you gain something from it

 

[burgertime2010]

It would be one thing if we were making quality a directive, the GMO fear is eating empty food. I have a belief that beyond its chemistry or genetics there is a life force in foods that seems to get left behind. I wonder who really benefits in this new world....farmers are scraping by, I cant get real food at the market, hunger is still a mathematical certainty. What genetic research is motivated by philanthropy? As a farmer the proprietors of these things own you right? I don't mean to be self-righteous or disrespectful. Can I ask your opinion on something? Is the desperate state of the independent farm manufactured by the titans of industry who sell this shit? Kind of a join or die scenario? Innovation is my occupation, Technology is this masturbatory impulse to create an obsolescence in most cases...new is better...new is better....new is better. Bad technology is far more pervasive and damaging than we realize. Because I am cautious about GMO simply means I am undecided, the companies that make good food their bitch can go to hell. I cant shake my instinct that there is an insidious pulse behind the door. I apologize if my ranting seems negative and paranoid. The beneficial part of all of this I now see with more clarity and perspective....thank you.

 

[Harrekin]

Ignore the false pretence laid by GAYprotection and ignore the GM food debate.

DNA's bill posted above basically bans ALL genetic research.

That is why people here are so passionate about their responses.

BTW, most of have no love for Monsanto, but they're a business, protecting patents and contracts is to be expected, and use of Monsanto seeds are optional.

Would you ban ALL genetic research purely because GM food/cannabis arnt your particular preference?

 

[burgertime2010]

Well it takes two to have a forum fight. I can fight, and the Dr. is very scrappy. kpmarine can mix it up. But, what a waste of time. In person, this venom can't happen. (say we are waiting line for a concert, sports, a bus) People know what people will do in person. So, ignore, formally or informally, fight or not, it doesn't matter Quite a few of us adults around here. And we can suffer the youugun' to provide their lack of experience and education, and discuss it all. Or..... Now. Does nature deserve respect, admiration, worship, protection? No. What is worshiped as Nature often excludes Man. We didn't need to be told we have dominion. And we didn't need to be granted it and we were not. It simply IS reality. This Nature is either one of two things. It is either the bone pile of mankind or it's the resource to got the hell out of here. We just stood around while a giant space rock almost hit us....a few weeks ago. Do think it will be any different in a impact event. Yes. PANIC and DEATH before it even gets here. This place it doomed. I don't worship the bio-skin of this planet. It will be gone. I do think we are beginning finally to husband it a bit more carefully....despite the AGW nuts began pushing world societies toward the intended collision for $$$. Is clean air, tyranny or freedom. If you can answer that, one way are another....think again. It has no answer, or the answer is both.

Don't give us a diatribe on the end of the world.....talk about a waste of time, go find somewhere where you are even more irrelevant. The sad thing about a mind like yours is that inside you can see an intellect too lazy to let itself own the present or an ego so expansive it consumes its' audience because they almost admire the gall it takes. Regardless, the combination is powerful and I hope it serves you and the people who can care about you better than this. I don't know what you are about, just negate someone else, better yet show us what you got.

 

[Figong]

Don't give us a diatribe on the end of the world.....talk about a waste of time, go find somewhere where you are even more irrelevant. The sad thing about a mind like yours is that inside you can see an intellect too lazy to let itself own the present or an ego so expansive it consumes its' audience because they almost admire the gall it takes. Regardless, the combination is powerful and I hope it serves you and the people who can care about you better than this. I don't know what you are about, just negate someone else, better yet show us what you got.

Re-sub'd for this one:

 

[Dr Kynes]

Don't give us a diatribe on the end of the world.....talk about a waste of time, go find somewhere where you are even more irrelevant. The sad thing about a mind like yours is that inside you can see an intellect too lazy to let itself own the present or an ego so expansive it consumes its' audience because they almost admire the gall it takes. Regardless, the combination is powerful and I hope it serves you and the people who can care about you better than this. I don't know what you are about, just negate someone else, better yet show us what you got.

And So It Begins...

 

[Harrekin]

And So It Begins...

I don't know if Doer has the fight for this one...

 

[ilikecheetoes]

genetic modification is a tool.
back in the 50's the musician's union claimed multitrack recording would spell the end for musicians and musicianship.
back in the 70's they said that home tape recorders would ruin the recording industry.
in the 80's the VCR would doom the cinema
in the 90's home cd burners would ruin the music industrry
in the 2000's file sharing would ruin every industry
and now gmo's will destroy the planet.

GMO plants are domestic plants. domestic plants do not "spead like weeds" weeds snuff domestic plants easily. the claim that domestic plants would "get pollen" is ridiculous since domestic plants have NO NATURAL ANALOG which might pollenate or be pollenated by the domesticated plant. despite hundreds of years of intensive farming, the only way to get corn to grow in iowa is to PLANT IT YOURSELF. iowa's forests are not overrun with wild corn plants spreading inexorably deeper into the natural ecosphere pushing out the sycamore trees, willows and pine trees and replacing them with endless vistas of maize.

even persistent and hardy crops like Rye dont crowd out native plants. when was the last time you went out to your lawn and found a soya plant growing in your flowerbed?

why can you not see how silly this is?

hmm interesting. I was kind of on the side of not letting this shit get in the wild but you make great points. Hell Weed is a ummmm weed, and it barely grows in my yard. lol