Club 600

[rollajoint]

Saw a youtube video with a guy smashing his plants repeatedly to the floor. Claiming that after 20 min only the strong thc was left. That nearly killed me

Post that video lmao !

 

[wormdrive66]

Blue Dream and Berry white prOn, been curing for about a month. Definitely can taste the difference from dirt. Not as earthy and harsh, really sweet with almost no ash.

 

[The Yorkshireman]

"drowning ?

so i read this on riu has anyone tried this with autos ? if not i may give it a go with my next harvest unless someone can give me a good reason not to not shure on the science of it so thought i would ask here as im shure somone will have a better idea than me


Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge

There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.

What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.

I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.

Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,

MrMistery wrotejules

Plants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.

@douglebod
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.

-Andrei

very true
that is what my bio textbook says.
just to complete the last part
in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt

found here,
http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html

and,


Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants

By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.
Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect."

Found this. Seems interesting enough to try..​

Sorry mate I fail to see how plants fermenting alcohol is relevant to the cure and how it improves the quality of the final product.

If I'm missing something fundamental can somebody fill me in?

 

[jigfresh]

I definitely notice a difference in ash between soil and hydro. Looks nice bro. Do you like either one better?

 

[The Yorkshireman]

View attachment 2568768
.........

 

[wormdrive66]

I definitely notice a difference in ash between soil and hydro. Looks nice bro. Do you like either one better?

I think I like the Hydro better to tell you the truth. It seems to be less of a burden on my cigarette smoking lungs. I was switching from Indoor to Outdoor for a few weeks and noticed that right away. I have hated on a lot of peoples hydro in the past thinking it will always taste the same. I have definitely changed my tune. But most people around here (in my town )grow shitty weed and that will never change.

stoner edit: If you were referring to which strain I prefer? I like the blue dream better. lol

 

[jigfresh]

Haha... I was refering to the smokes... but I like the other analysis too. I'm excited to see what I think of my first soil run vs my hydro. I have always liked the taste of my hydro to anyones soil or hydro for that matter. Like you said it's a little more smooth. Might not stink as much as soil, but I feel like the hydro is more perfumy, but doesn't stink as much, whatever that means. And like you said the smoke seems less thick or something. Maybe it's just that you can't flush in soil like you can in hydro? Who knows.

Ain't growing weed fun?

 

[hornedfrog2000]

Pros for me for doing hydro over soil is:

Soil is heavy, and dirty.
Hydro you just dump the shit down the drain.
There is no testing ph runoff or any of that shit.
Faster vegging in my experience.
I suck at soil.

I can see if you do small scale soil grows, but really I don't understand why so many people think hydro is so hard. It's just keep your ph at 5.8, and learning your pheno.

 

[zVice]

isn't this what riddlem3 was always talking about?

EDIT: link>> https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/409622-truth-about-flushing-12.html

Sorry mate I fail to see how plants fermenting alcohol is relevant to the cure and how it improves the quality of the final product.

If I'm missing something fundamental can somebody fill me in?

"drowning ?

so i read this on riu has anyone tried this with autos ? if not i may give it a go with my next harvest unless someone can give me a good reason not to not shure on the science of it so thought i would ask here as im shure somone will have a better idea than me


Harvesting Curing Drying - Take Back the Knowledge

There is an old hippie growers myth that says to soak the roots in water for 3 to 10 days before harvest this is not to be confused with the flush that everyone talks about (you all know I don't flush before harvest, I flush always) the tip/myth is supposed to improve the quality of our smoke. I have to admit that I never paid it much attention until now because I have now proven it is not a myth and has some scientific validation.

What it amounts to is a way to start the cure prior to harvest while the plant is still alive. This is an incredible find as far as I am concerned and I can not wait to try it. what it amounts to is starving the plant of oxygen by drowning it, if in hydro take away the bubbles or spray fill the tank with water and wait, if in a pot either continuously water it (keep it wet/soaked) or stick the pot in a bigger bucket of water.

I need to add some background info as I'm getting ahead of myself, most of you know that if you add sugar and yeast together it ferments into alcohol giving off CO2. The basic definition of Fermentation is the act of breaking down sugars into alcohol and our plants do this internally thru a natural process even while growing. The act of fermentation is a oxidation/reduction process (explained in prior post) just as most plant functions seem to be. Also please be aware that N is needed for proper fermintation to take place.

Here is the info I found verifying that this old hippie myth is real,,,,,

MrMistery wrotejules

Plants use photosynthesis to make sugars out of water, CO2 and sunlight. But a plant cell (like any other cell) cannot use sugars for their cellular processes, it needs to break down the sugars and make ATP. Basically, the only difference between humans and plants in this chapter is that plants make their own sugars, while we get ours from food. But we still both need to use those sugars, and we do that through cellular respiration.

@douglebod
Fermentation is strictly defined as any way of anaerobically degrade pyruvic acid and recycle NAD+ to keep glycolysis going. You can then categorize this process as lactic acid fermentation (where pyruvate accepts electrons from NADH directly and becomes lactate), alcoholic fermentation (where pyruvate is first decarboxylated to acetaldehyde which then accepts electrons from NADH to become ethanol) and others (which are much more obscure). So technically, human cells are able to carry out lactic acid fermentation. Liver cells also have the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (responsible for ethanol formation in yeast and other fungi), but we use it in the reverse direction so to speak to get rid of any alcohol which we consume by converting it to pyruvate.
Plants however, can carry out alcoholic fermatation. They don't normally do it, because plants are usually in contact with oxygen. However, if you flood the root of a plant for about a week the cells are starved of oxygen, and because of this they will start carrying out alcoholic fermentation to survive.

-Andrei

very true
that is what my bio textbook says.
just to complete the last part
in alcoholic pathway ethanol forms a waste while the lactate formed in the lactate pathway can be broken down further. that is what leads to the oxygen debt

found here,
http://www.biology-online.org/biolog...bout16671.html

and,


Alcoholic Fermentation In Plants

By the following, which we find in the London Gardener's Chronicle, it will be seen that the discovery is somewhat akin to those of Prof. Burrill and others in this country:
"When plants are deprived of oxygen gas it appears that alcohol is formed in all their tissues without the aid of any ferment. If a vegetable cell containing sugar be cut off from its supply of oxygen - be suffocated, in fact - the sugar it contains becomes broken up or changed into carbonic acid, alcohol, and other products. Moreover, the various alcoholic ferments only produce their effects under the same conditions. Alcoholic fermentation, then, depends solely on the suffocation of a living cell containing sugar. Starting from these ascertained facts, M. Van Tieghem, in a recent number of the Annales Agronomiques, alludes to a peculiar disease in apple trees due to a suffocation of the roots, followed by the production of alcohol in their tissues. On microscopic examination the tissues were found healthy, except the medullary rays, the cells of which, instead of containing starch or sugar, contained brown oily globules, the residue left after the formation of the alcohol, which latter is diffused throughout the root, tinging the cells of a characteristic brown color, and giving rise to an easily detected alcoholic odor.
Judging from these appearances what was the nature of the disease, M. Van Tieghem made inquiries as to the character of the soil, and from this, as well as the fact that the season had been extremely wet, his diagnosis was confirmed, and he in consequence prescribed efficient drainage as the remedy for the disease, and with good effect."

Found this. Seems interesting enough to try..​

 

[DoobieBrother]

I don't feel that either way is difficult.
Just different.
Plant problems in soil develop more slowly, and are corrected more slowly, so people over-correct and make it worse instead of waiting for results to show that will indicate the problem is resolved.
Hydro problems can happen quick, but are also quickly corrected, or quickly made worse if mis-diagnosed.
Six of one, or half a dozen of the other.
I prefer to use the run-off from my hempy to feed my soil grow, to not add to the problems of the local water supply.
If I wasn't growing soil alongside my hempy, I'd take the run off outside and feed it to a tree, or other plants in need (not practical in snowy climes during winter, I know).
We have decent water where I'm at, and I don't bother with pH or TDS measurements, though I would if I had issues with my grows, but no problems for the past 6 years that weren't my fault.
I like the simplicity of hydro and having direct control of the feeding process (hempy's are my only hydro experience so far, which is as simple as it gets for hydro), but I also love to get my hands dirty, and I love the smell of a healthy, loamy soil, and I love an organically sustained grow where only water is needed.
I haven't noticed a difference in taste or smokeability (sic?) or potency (when I have it, the only time I'm not toking is when I sleep) between the two, but my current grow will be the first where I will have a true side-by-side comparison available for anecdotal testing (it's all in the name of science, of course )

 

[jigfresh]

I had forgotten about riddlem3. I wonder if he still runs his forum.

As for soil/hydro, what I'm finding so far is that soil is like 10 x's less work. I didn't even open the door to my closet yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I found hydro difficult, just seemed like I was always in there doing something.

Haha... which brings a thought to mind. What I was doing most of the time was training/ pruning the plants. Why I'm not doing that this grow so much is because they grow SO FUCKING SLOW in soil. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but if I was vegging this long in hydro my plants would be at least twice as big. At least. So it's trade off's I guess.

I feel like I'm leaning toward hydro just because of the time. Seems a waste of electricity to veg a plant twice as long as you would in hydro. And a waste of time. It's still early though. I haven't even hit 12/12. Should probably wait to smoke some buds before I decide what's worth what.

 

[zVice]

you can definitely taste a difference in hyrdo (even coco) as opposed to organic soil.
but agree, it does feel much much slower especially in veg

wonder if anyone has vegged in coco then switched to soil for flowering
coco already seems to be kind of an inbetweener from "pure hydro" and soil
but handwatering is a pain in the ass :/
water every second day

do love that coco though.

I had forgotten about riddlem3. I wonder if he still runs his forum.

As for soil/hydro, what I'm finding so far is that soil is like 10 x's less work. I didn't even open the door to my closet yesterday. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I found hydro difficult, just seemed like I was always in there doing something.

Haha... which brings a thought to mind. What I was doing most of the time was training/ pruning the plants. Why I'm not doing that this grow so much is because they grow SO FUCKING SLOW in soil. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but if I was vegging this long in hydro my plants would be at least twice as big. At least. So it's trade off's I guess.

I feel like I'm leaning toward hydro just because of the time. Seems a waste of electricity to veg a plant twice as long as you would in hydro. And a waste of time. It's still early though. I haven't even hit 12/12. Should probably wait to smoke some buds before I decide what's worth what.

 

[dababydroman]

its a beautiful day, computer wont load up any pics for some reason. maybe later.

 

[DoobieBrother]

That's about the only advantage of hydro that I can see is that once you have the feeding dialed in, the plant receives it's maximum amount of nutrients and can grow to it's relative maximum potential in a shorter amount of time.
For those who make part, or all, of their wages with cannabis, it'd be the way to go.
I mentioned before how back in the early '80's some of us idjits bad-mouthing hydro-grown cannabis as well as weed grown from clones.
I never made the judgement to either, as I was just happy to have decent green to enjoy.
When we'd get wet weed, we thought it was because it was grown hydro, even though it was just weed that wasn't dried (fucking thieves ripping off us desperate idjits), or if it was weak ass stuff blaming it on weed grown from clones.
Thank FSM I (and others) grew out of those days.

 

[HydroGp]

Sorry mate I fail to see how plants fermenting alcohol is relevant to the cure and how it improves the quality of the final product.

If I'm missing something fundamental can somebody fill me in?

No need to be sorry. Damn ive been reading and reading trying to get a great answer for you. Im so high and tired. What i get from it is fermenting alcohol is "cureing". By soaking the roots you start the cureing process before harvest and putting in jars for traditional cure. The breaking down of sugar is needed, and this is just another way of doing so. Could cause a better smoke. Ill have to read more into it. Hopefully find something in Danish
Without fermentation (CURE) we would be smoking chlorophyll and other bad substancess. <-- Right?
Shit my brain is crying. Hope i got it right Night Night
Heres a more extensive explanation: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/409622-truth-about-flushing.html

 

[DoobieBrother]

I see almost no difference between coco and soil.
One uses the shredded husks of coconuts, and the other uses the crushed up rocks.
It's the microbes that we grow within the substrate that sustains the plants.
When we eschew the use of microbes, then coco becomes a hydro method, just as using perlite (a rock) by itself is a hydro method.
The coco and the perlite are merely there to retain moisture & nutrients, and to provide physical support as the plant grows larger.
(over simplified, I know)

 

[DoobieBrother]

Sorry guys (and gal/s):
(late lunch/early dinner, or "lunner", as I like to call it)

 

[giggles26]

Good evening 6ers!! Hope everyone had a good day. I know I did. I sampled a small bud of vinnie and put her in my pax and daaaaaaaaamn.

Oh and my 3 headed monster is for sure a girl!!!!!! Good days. Well off to go play bball with the kids hope everyone has a great evening!

Peace and stay high guys

 

[1badmasonman]

Good shizz 600 watters glad to see our page is still booming strong as ever


Jig i have only ever grown hydro becasue i was inspired by your early hydro runs. I would have to say having been a mostly soil guy that hydro was def alot faster on the veg side. And even in flower things seemed to progress much more rapidly and needed alot more care and attention. I kinda liked that myself hehe. Soil is just so much more chill and slow but very forgiving, but also the taste is something that cant be ignored. As others have mentioned coco is kinda the best of both worlds which is what im dabbling with now. I dont really know jack about it yet but im learning

PS has anyone ever tried top dressing with pine chips? ive heard of outdoor growers using this tech to give the herb the piney taste we all love, but have personally never seen it done. ??? 1BMM

 

[hornedfrog2000]

I don't feel that either way is difficult.
Just different.
Plant problems in soil develop more slowly, and are corrected more slowly, so people over-correct and make it worse instead of waiting for results to show that will indicate the problem is resolved.
Hydro problems can happen quick, but are also quickly corrected, or quickly made worse if mis-diagnosed.
Six of one, or half a dozen of the other.
I prefer to use the run-off from my hempy to feed my soil grow, to not add to the problems of the local water supply.
If I wasn't growing soil alongside my hempy, I'd take the run off outside and feed it to a tree, or other plants in need (not practical in snowy climes during winter, I know).
We have decent water where I'm at, and I don't bother with pH or TDS measurements, though I would if I had issues with my grows, but no problems for the past 6 years that weren't my fault.
I like the simplicity of hydro and having direct control of the feeding process (hempy's are my only hydro experience so far, which is as simple as it gets for hydro), but I also love to get my hands dirty, and I love the smell of a healthy, loamy soil, and I love an organically sustained grow where only water is needed.
I haven't noticed a difference in taste or smokeability (sic?) or potency (when I have it, the only time I'm not toking is when I sleep) between the two, but my current grow will be the first where I will have a true side-by-side comparison available for anecdotal testing (it's all in the name of science, of course )

I actually don't dump it down the drain, but in my sump pump. Not sure if that is better. It pumps it out in my yard where it makes the grass around it huge, and weeds grow like crazy.