Whitehouse petition - full legalization for ages 21+

[see4]

unless they're going to legalize it the way it's legal for everyone to grow tomatoes, we're better off with it staying underground. the reality is that it'll be legalized more like booze, with restrictions and licensing and all that cack, which will indeed open the way for Big Tobacco and Big Pharma, or any other corporate interest group that has the wherewithal to lobby the gubment in their favour.

i'm already living that particular nightmare. while there are certain perks i enjoy about being legal on a federal level, the flipside of that is when they come to pull the homegrow rug out from under us to hand it to Big Pharma (as they're already trying to do in canada), they do it to all of us across the country.

100% agree. You worded it much better than I could have.

 

[cannabineer]

possessive is definitely a better word than greedy and relieves some of the misunderstanding to the point. in light of your repositioned argument I could agree to some extent, but still hold firm to the original idea that businesses in fact do not solely try to seek out possessions, and in your case, loosely argued, greedily so.

is it happening more often than not lately? yes, i can agree to that.. but this is only a narrowed observation. looking at this from a global perspective, i still think the original argument holds true

Allow me then to return to your earlier statement. You said capitalism is not instinctive. I see it as the direct extension of the impulse to acquire without limit. I think that that impulse is built into human nature and requires a deliberate rational override (such as monks and hippies practice) to defeat.
If not capitalism, which economic model do you think more closely resonates with our inner animal? cn

 

[mellokitty]

i would contend that greed is an ingrained part of the human-slash-hunter/gatherer condition. otherwise, communism and socialism would have more historical examples of successfully being put in practice. i had a history prof once who, explaining those 2 social systems, said: "they look really pretty on paper, but there's one thing that always fucks it up in practice: human greed."

thing about greed, though, is that we don't all have to have it for it to fuck it up for all of us.

 

[see4]

Allow me then to return to your earlier statement. You said capitalism is not instinctive. I see it as the direct extension of the impulse to acquire without limit. I think that that impulse is built into human nature and requires a deliberate rational override (such as monks and hippies practice) to defeat.
If not capitalism, which economic model do you think more closely resonates with our inner animal? cn

I argue that capitalism and economy itself is not the fundamental human need, rather survival is, and through this mechanism we call economy, and thusly capitalism, we derive our need to survive, and as humans, businesses too need to survive. and this i am ok with. where things get hazy with me is the excessiveness of possession or greed if you will, this is not a fundamental need, this is socioeconomic influence at work, not Pavlovian conditioning of instincts.

i feel my wording here may be ascue, but i blame that on my recent harvest.

 

[see4]

i would contend that greed is an ingrained part of the human-slash-hunter/gatherer condition. otherwise, communism and socialism would have more historical examples of successfully being put in practice.

thing about greed, though, is that we don't all have to have it for it to fuck it up for all of us.

so you and canna agree. where i take opposite position.

 

[cannabineer]

i would contend that greed is an ingrained part of the human-slash-hunter/gatherer condition. otherwise, communism and socialism would have more historical examples of successfully being put in practice. i had a history prof once who, explaining those 2 social systems, said: "they look really pretty on paper, but there's one thing that always fucks it up in practice: human greed."

thing about greed, though, is that we don't all have to have it for it to fuck it up for all of us.

That's the gist of my argument. I think the hanging point was that greed contains the value judgment "excessive" in it, which rather changes the tenor of Gordon Gekko's old maxim "greed is good". cn

 

[cannabineer]

so you and canna agree. where i take opposite position.

Convince me. cn

 

[see4]

That's the gist of my argument. I think the hanging point was that greed contains the value judgment "excessive" in it, which rather changes the tenor of Gordon Gekko's old maxim "greed is good". cn

You can't be from Rednekistan. However obtuse your argument, you delivery of position is very refined. CA, WA, MA, CT, NY or PA, maybe even NC... but definitely not Rednekistan.

 

[cannabineer]

You can't be from Rednekistan. However obtuse your argument, you delivery of position is very refined. CA, WA, MA, CT, NY or PA, maybe even NC... but definitely not Rednekistan.

I am currently in the 'Stan. I grew up in the suburban USA. cn

 

[see4]

Convince me. cn

I think I have posed a fairly valid argument to the fact. We may be arguing over taxonomy, but that may in itself be the basis for the argument. In which case, I still contend that at the basic level, greed or possessiveness is not the driver of capitalism, survival is, and that greed is simply a mechanism of survival.

 

[see4]

I am currently in the 'Stan. I grew up in the suburban USA. cn

Me? Affluenciaville, right outside of Snobtown and Prickville. But I digress.

 

[cannabineer]

I think I have posed a fairly valid argument to the fact. We may be arguing over taxonomy, but that may in itself be the basis for the argument. In which case, I still contend that at the basic level, greed or possessiveness is not the driver of capitalism, survival is, and that greed is simply a mechanism of survival.

There is always the danger that I am Quixotically tilting at my interpretation of your post and not what you meant to say. I read that "capitalism isn't <ed: in line with> human nature". This prompted me to ask "which economic system would be closer?" I worry now that that question, though it fascinates me, may be tangential. cn

 

[cannabineer]

Me? Affluenciaville, right outside of Snobtown and Prickville. But I digress.

You should get thee a ranch in lower Wet Vagina. cn

 

[see4]

There is always the danger that I am Quixotically tilting at my interpretation of your post and not what you meant to say. I read that "capitalism isn't <ed: in line with> human nature". This prompted me to ask "which economic system would be closer?" I worry now that that question, though it fascinates me, may be tangential. cn

You would be correct.

 

[cannabineer]

You would be correct.

Well just dang then. cn

 

[see4]

Well just dang then. cn

Don't get me wrong, I would like continue our engagement, however my evening has come to a close. Getting up at 5am is getting in the way of things...

 

[cannabineer]

Don't get me wrong, I would like continue our engagement, however my evening has come to a close. Getting up at 5am is getting in the way of things...

No worries. I didn't realize until late that I was barking up my own tree. Must have been my tenure on the Moebius Debate Society. "Now, presenting the same side's position ..." cn

<add> Which suggests I might yet learn how to carry myself.

 

[Apomixis]

Holy shit has anyone seen this? Totally relevant.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/response/isnt-petition-response-youre-looking

EDIT: you two are half of my reading on RIU. Hilarious. Thank both of your mothers for drinking during pregnancy.
REDIT: of course I would read the last page of commentary which misses the deep, semantic meat of the discussion between you two in which you both prove yourselves to be thoughtful and well spoken human beings. Thank my mother for drinking during her pregnancy.

 

[see4]

No worries. I didn't realize until late that I was barking up my own tree. Must have been my tenure on the Moebius Debate Society. "Now, presenting the same side's position ..." cn

<add> Which suggests I might yet learn how to carry myself.

Healthy debate, especially self debate can only strengthen one's insight to the topic at hand. All positive shit man.

• You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cannabineer again.
  
  
  
  

 

[Rancho Cucamonga]

Ya those white house petitions are a joke.

I will not be signing it as I am against legalization through taxation.