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LEDmania

Active Member
FranJan said:
A Word About Zener Diodes, LED Grow Lights and Quality



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Just wanted to have a little chat about panels with Zener diodes for you first time buyers out there. So for those who don't know what a Zener diode is you can read the Wiki entry HERE or just know that LED panel makers use Zeners to protect LEDs and LED circuits. Well how's that a bad thing you ask? First they're diodes that don't give off light and also draw power, so you're paying extra to run these diodes with no increase in bud production. Not cool. Well you say "I'll pay extra every month to protect my investment", well here's another way of looking at it. LEDs have revolutionized sign making and with sign making they're not worried about things like high CRI and true color reproduction like growers are, they just want the brightest diodes possible. And the one thing that sign makers love are Zener diodes. They're great for using in designing a LED circuit and of course protecting the sign so they don't have to fix it as often. Now most of these companies who make grow lights on Alibaba are in the sign business too. So when you buy a panel from these Chinese companies, there is a very good chance you're buying low CRI signage-grade LEDs, which is something you want to avoid since their inefficiency will equal higher electrical bills and lower bud production, which I believe we're not big fans of around here :). Also sometimes panel makers may not have access to drivers that they need to properly run their circuit or don't have enough diodes to complete their run of panels. It's much cheaper just to add some Zeners in order to fudge the circuit to get it to work with the drivers. Again this is a sign of poor quality and panels like this should be avoided.

So unless you really know what you're doing, you may want to avoid panels with Zeners. And if you don't believe me go ask Area51, Apache, Vipar, or even effin' Blackstar what Zeners they use ;). But that's just my $.02. Happy Growing Everyone!

[EDIT] I just wanted to add something I forgot; Zeners are also used to keep current flowing through a circuit so if a diode fails the current will still flow through the circuit which is a positive that should be noted. Having said that soldering a wire (not exactly UL approved), a proper resistor or a replacement LED will fix your circuit too.
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LED burnt was a very common problem, and if one LED burnt, the whole series would not work. Facing this problem, two years ago, some manufacturers in China tried to add the Zener to the circuit board, and they expected: If a LED burnt, the current will go through the Zener and reach the next LED, so that the whole series will continue working except the burnt one. But it has been proved not work, because if a LED burnt, the Zener also burnt in the following hours. So adding the Zener is a waste of money, on the other hand it increases more problems to the whole lamp, as the Zener also has its quality problem.
 
Figong

Figong

Well-Known Member
LEDmania said:
LED burnt was a very common problem, and if one LED burnt, the whole series would not work. Facing this problem, two years ago, some manufacturers in China tried to add the Zener to the circuit board, and they expected: If a LED burnt, the current will go through the Zener and reach the next LED, so that the whole series will continue working except the burnt one. But it has been proved not work, because if a LED burnt, the Zener also burnt in the following hours. So adding the Zener is a waste of money, on the other hand it increases more problems to the whole lamp, as the Zener also has its quality problem.
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LEDs can't be done parallel to prevent that given the many options of drivers out there?
 
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LEDmania

Active Member
Kyanite393 said:
Franjan are the little dashes between the rings of diodes the Zennars? If so are they always visible or can they be hidden from view so one is unkowingly purchasing a zennar'ed out unit?
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It is almost impossible to hide a Zener, it must be soldered in the front side of the circuit board, as the back side of the circuit board must be plain and smooth in order to connect it with the heat-sink firmly and tightly, and then the heat can be conducted and spreaded as soon as possible. But be careful, some manufacturers have removed the heat-sink from the lamp so that they can save some production cost to compete with the others. It means these lamps with heat sink will be built with only a circuit board, in that case, the Zener could be built at the back side of the circuit board...and that's invisible unless you dismantle the lamp. But as soon as you dismantle it, the manufactuer will tell you they don't take the warranty any more, because bla bla.....reasons.
 
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LEDmania

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Figong said:
LEDs can't be done parallel to prevent that given the many options of drivers out there?
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It could be, but this is a worse technology, building with parallel, the input current is multiply, so if one LED burn, the another one has to take double input current, it will be burnt exremely fast......
 
Figong

Figong

Well-Known Member
If parallel, electronics law says that the additional current would be distributed evenly at that point, assuming everything else remained the same.. but I do get what you're saying.. 1 going would stress the rest.. 2 going would make it worse, and it'd be a nasty collapse as it really spiked and the LEDs failed.
 
FranJan

FranJan

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I've toasted a panel with Zeners on it and any "protection" was haphazard at best. On one circuit it was either the LED and Zener burnt, the LED burnt and Zener was OK or the Zener burnt and the LED was OK. That last state was the rarest on the circuit, (serial), though I must admit I shorted it to it's case so I don't think they were designed to protect the LEDs from stoners like me. LOL
 
Corso312

Corso312

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Well I have someone building a light n they are implementing a lot of the whites n making it so if one led Burns out the it wont effect others n easier to replace. He saw the helio n said that is how his is...is this a problem? I don't want to waste 60o$ on a 600. Watt expierment light n be disappointed.
 
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LEDmania

Active Member
Corso312 said:
Well I have someone building a light n they are implementing a lot of the whites n making it so if one led Burns out the it wont effect others n easier to replace. He saw the helio n said that is how his is...is this a problem? I don't want to waste 60o$ on a 600. Watt expierment light n be disappointed.
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Don't be disappointed please, as LED grow light has been proved working very well, epecially some new updated items. But of course, the result(yileds) could be completely different between high quality LEDs and low quality LEDs. If I were you, I would go with a local seller, in that case, I could have a good warranty and after sales service. Happy growing.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
FranJan said:
Bicit 10 to 30 watt Ebay spot lights in the 5000 to 12000K range will work fine for keeping moms alive. They'll grow very slow with just this color and wattage so if you want better growth add some WW or NWs. Something like 1x20 watt WW and 2x10 CW isn't too expensive and will be fine for 2 moms in the 1 foot range. Anything taller and you need to up the watts or add side lighting. You could use just SMD strip lights, but it depends on your space.

Books I've read that one can find easily on the interwebs or on Amazon are (click for linkage :))
LED Lighting: A Primer to Lighting the Future
Light-Emitting Diodes by E. Fred Schubert
Practical Lighting Design with LEDs
Power Supplies for LED Driving
Nitride Phosphors and Solid-State Lighting

Anyone got a copy of this :)?
Introduction to LED Lighting: Basics, Designing, Simulation, Experimentation and Case Studies
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Awesome! Thank you very much!
 
wyteberrywidow

wyteberrywidow

Global
GandBGrowers said:
Just wanted to throw in my twocents. If anyone is looking for a good LED light between $100 - $200 I think I found it.

http://growblu.com/shop-led-grow-lights

I have the 150w full spectrum and am already impressed. The spectrum on the blu leds looks good and they have a 3 year warranty which is really good for the price you pay.

View attachment 2579289View attachment 2579290
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Not a fan of the ufos but the 300 watt 5 watt chips ect for 319. I believe now that's something I can deal with. They list the actual power drwa as 197 watts figure that would be better than a blackstar and cheaper than the solarflare..
I'm still waiting to hear back from the chinese manufacturers
 
PrezDickie

PrezDickie

Well-Known Member
i was curious what you all would think about the grow blu leds... i've been eyeing them for my next buy, wejuana is doing a grow with them now and seems to really like them, full spectrum model seems to cover a good range but i don't know that much about the company, i'm always hunting for something decent at a good price, only ones i've bought new so far are 200w CLW solarflare (cut me a deal since they were new at time and didn't offer grower feedback program on it) and Blackstar Chrome ( 4 spot model ) got it before the came out because i traded in my very first light, a crappy 180w blackstar ufo freaked out on me and was sending an electric charge up the hanging chain!?

also have two BS 240 but got those off ebay used for $300 for the pair couldn't pass it up.

you all are doing good work spreading info out there to the public :)
 
wyteberrywidow

wyteberrywidow

Global
PrezDickie said:
i was curious what you all would think about the grow blu leds... i've been eyeing them for my next buy, wejuana is doing a grow with them now and seems to really like them, full spectrum model seems to cover a good range but i don't know that much about the company, i'm always hunting for something decent at a good price, only ones i've bought new so far are 200w CLW solarflare (cut me a deal since they were new at time and didn't offer grower feedback program on it) and Blackstar Chrome ( 4 spot model ) got it before the came out because i traded in my very first light, a crappy 180w blackstar ufo freaked out on me and was sending an electric charge up the hanging chain!?

also have two BS 240 but got those off ebay used for $300 for the pair couldn't pass it up.

you all are doing good work spreading info out there to the public :)
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What do you think about the clw 200 watters?
I'm looking at that one or this blue lab one if I can't get the cidlys.
 
O

Orgins

Member
M

mazewing

Member
I personally have been using the solar storm for about a year now and I'm 100% satisfied with my purchase. The production has been on par w/ my 1000 hps and I love the low heat output. I did have a small problem with one of the led panels but after sending GEORGE(OWNER ) an email about my concern he immediately sent me a new unit no questions asked. I have worked in retail sales for nearly 20 years and have come to appreciate companies who are truly concerned about there customers. Plus if you throw in the fact that this is an american owned and built product its just icing on the cake. I very rarely post threads on this site but I felt obligated to pass on to other growers my thoughts of complete satisfaction of my purchase from California Light Works ( solar storm). PS I dont work for the company but if the opportunity were to arise I would be more than glad to say that I did.
 
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SnotBoogie

Well-Known Member
Corso312 said:
Well I have someone building a light n they are implementing a lot of the whites n making it so if one led Burns out the it wont effect others n easier to replace. He saw the helio n said that is how his is...is this a problem? I don't want to waste 60o$ on a 600. Watt expierment light n be disappointed.
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If you are getting a 600 watt light built for you for 600 dollars, you are getting the best deal ever.

Add in that it is "the same" as a heliospectra and i think you should stop smoking weed and set up business with this guy.

All jokes aside, its very unlikely that he is building you something like a heliospectra. as said above , it is a "research" light and is thus by definition highly inefficient for actually growing stuff. It is designed to emit a broad range of lighting conditions, many of which have little practical usage as far as growing some smoke goes.

Heliospectra= light for doing scientific experiments and shizz. Like seeing how a plant would flower on the planet Dooberon etc.

edit: Gaaah... do you lose the ability to edit posts past a certain age or something? trying to add to my information post and IT AINT WORKIN :dunce:
 
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