Would you classify this as torture?

[Carthoris]

Lmao, Euro leffties? Im from a Country that is on top. The great white north. Im not European, I am Canadian, and our economy is just fine thanks.

I gave insight into what helped tarnish the rep of the US, the lies, the propaganda, the banking system and the BS.

If you dont think the US markets are not closely tied to global markets you are severely misguided. Not that I said the semi global collapse was
completely the US's fault.

So explain what the rest of the worlds propaganda machine was? (You know the coalition that went into Iraq under false pretences.)
We went, we fought, and we were all sure pissed off that we were lied to.

I guess you're in the know though, please do tell which WMD's that the bush admin made reference to were actually found.

Now wait, are you suggesting only a capitalist should run a bank? Yet more spin "Socialists Bad, Obama's a socialist Muslim, I hate socialized medicine. Yada yada yada.....

Dont try splitting hairs and defending actions with semantics.

What is Canada on top of? The only reason you exist is because we keep Mexico from invading you.

The biggest tarnish to the American rep is power.

Who cares what you and the other 4 Canadians think?

Who lied to who? Bush sure the hell didn't know what was going on. When someone sells you a condo in Rhodesia, there is more than one person at fault. "Hey, we are invading Iraq because he has WMDs, you in?" "Da, we like fries with gravy and we will dedicate all 2 people in our army to the invasion" Shit, just because you put half your population into the invasion does mean we give a fuck about you.

What does this any of this have to do with the police/prison guards torturing people?

 

[Carthoris]

Go quietly and they're usually pretty fucking cool actually.

Act the dick, they'll bring you in the unpleasant way.

Its not right or wrong, it's just how it is, most of them don't think weed is even bad, it's their job to arrest people tho.

Being Irish, I would think you would have better views about an abusive government fucking you. Orangeman are ya?

 

[UncleBuck]

Being Irish, I would think you would have better views about an abusive government fucking you. Orangeman are ya?

it's always about color with you, catheter.

 

[ricky1lung]

What is Canada on top of? The only reason you exist is because we keep Mexico from invading you.

The biggest tarnish to the American rep is power.

Who cares what you and the other 4 Canadians think?

Who lied to who? Bush sure the hell didn't know what was going on. When someone sells you a condo in Rhodesia, there is more than one person at fault. "Hey, we are invading Iraq because he has WMDs, you in?" "Da, we like fries with gravy and we will dedicate all 2 people in our army to the invasion" Shit, just because you put half your population into the invasion does mean we give a fuck about you.

What does this any of this have to do with the police/prison guards torturing people?

I was replying to Dr.Kynes and forgot to quote his post.

On top as in being doing well economically.

Lmao, Mexicans invading us, give me a break.

Next time you think our existence hinges upon the US you may want to remember the war of 1812 when your house burnt down.

 

[Dr Kynes]

If I get caught with an ounce of weed in my state I become a felon and will likely do jail time. Smoking weed makes me open to being tortured and pepper sprayed while tied to a chair?

if you get caught wiuth a nickel bag and go to slam, thats unfortunate.

if while you are in slam, you spit on a screw and call him names trying to make him lose face, welll... sorry bro. you got a rough time comin and you earned it.

shit son, if you spit on a cop out in the world what do you think that cop will do to you?

and in slam, all violence gets multiplied by the refractory power of prison walls and cell doors. it's a pressure cooker, and only a fool will deliberately turn up the heat on himslef.

 

[GOD HERE]

if you get caught wiuth a nickel bag and go to slam, thats unfortunate.

if while you are in slam, you spit on a screw and call him names trying to make him lose face, welll... sorry bro. you got a rough time comin and you earned it.

This is a perfect summary of the conservative outlook.

 

[Padawanbater2]

if you get caught wiuth a nickel bag and go to slam, thats unfortunate.

if while you are in slam, you spit on a screw and call him names trying to make him lose face, welll... sorry bro. you got a rough time comin and you earned it.

shit son, if you spit on a cop out in the world what do you think that cop will do to you?

and in slam, all violence gets multiplied by the refractory power of prison walls and cell doors. it's a pressure cooker, and only a fool will deliberately turn up the heat on himslef.

You should spend less time on 'what is' and more time on 'what should be', maybe then, what should be could become what is

 

[Dr Kynes]

It's justified because you believe the level of violence presented in the clip couldn't reasonably be defined as torture?

Torture

1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

2. a method of inflicting such pain.

3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.

4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.

5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.

It looked like the guy was in excruciating pain, as he was gasping for air and informing the officer he couldn't breathe. The guy was already under control and started getting aggressive when the officer grabbed his head, imo, the pepper spray was unnecessary, having said that, using it seems like it meets the definition of cruelty. I'm not sure if you've ever experienced pepper spray, but look up some clips on youtube, it's painful.

yep. not torture.

the screws might have taken it a little too far, but in prisons they have to walk the fine line and always take it Just Too Far Enough, since 100% of their population is made up of convicts. convicts are generally not kindly grandmothers, or mormon missionaries, but real hardasses, with their asses in a real hard place. as a result they need hard treatment. most dog kennels dont keep bear spray, shock rods, cattle prods, and .308 rifles on hand for dealing with stray chihuahuas, but animal control has to keep that shit since they deal with frenzied pit fighting dogs, rabid feral dogs, face eating chimpanzees, and all manner of angry critters. so when you see them shooting a poor defenseless animal on a video clip from peta, or using a shock stick to stun a poor doggy, you dont get to see the real critter and you associate it with your family dog.

that putz in the video looks like any kid off the block, but how many kids on your block think spitting on a prison guard is a good idea?

im not a big fan of pepper spray, or any of the new "Pain Compliance" methods which have become so popular, since it just lowers the bar and makes violence against prisoners (and people on the street) less deadly, and thus more acceptable to the pigs.

in my opinion this simply provides an easier slope to assist in the escalation of violence rather than providing any new benefit.

it used to be, when you stepped across the line, and a cop laid hands on you, it was a pretty good bet you did somethin SERIOUS to get that action, but now, if a cop wants to see id, and you dont have any, because your WALKING, out comes the pepper spray, or out comes the taser, and he begins to attempt to force compliance. these days the cops dont have to wait for you to step across a line, they can simply resort to their new toys, and fuck your shit up at their pleasure.

that being said, sometimes a pig or a screw has to free the Beast on some dippledink moron who is a habitual line-stepper. i got mad respect for cops who go to the billyclubh, cuz you know, when they pop up the womping stick, they got a damned good reason for doing it. even the sainted Rodney King was BEGGING for the beatdown he recieved. but video never shows the whole story.

having recieved a few beatdowns from the cops myself, i can say with 100% certainty that with 1 exception i had them all comin.

 

[tomahawk2406]

Yep, getting a DUI or getting caught with a personal supply of weed gives the police the go ahead to pepper spray you while restrained and then psychologically torture you for half an hour. Fuck you.

No dickhead, when you fight back and spit on them you get the fucking horns. If you get a DUI I think you should be strapped down and pepper sprayed anyway. Guess what would of happened if the dude complied? Take your time, that question might burn you out.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Lmao, Euro leffties? Im from a Country that is on top. The great white north. Im not European, I am Canadian, and our economy is just fine thanks.

I gave insight into what helped tarnish the rep of the US, the lies, the propaganda, the banking system and the BS.

If you dont think the US markets are not closely tied to global markets you are severely misguided. Not that I said the semi global collapse was
completely the US's fault.

So explain what the rest of the worlds propaganda machine was? (You know the coalition that went into Iraq under false pretences.)
We went, we fought, and we were all sure pissed off that we were lied to.

I guess you're in the know though, please do tell which WMD's that the bush admin made reference to were actually found.

Now wait, are you suggesting only a capitalist should run a bank? Yet more spin "Socialists Bad, Obama's a socialist Muslim, I hate socialized medicine. Yada yada yada.....

Dont try splitting hairs and defending actions with semantics.

canada is a euro-left nation. if you wish to argue that it is not, i will laugh in your face, and so will everyone except the euro-lefties and canadians for whom european new left politics are considered normal, and america is the oddity.

you gave no insight, you stated opinions disguised as facts. opinions which are False when treated as anything other than Opinion.

you implied that the us was the cause of the economic "collapse" and insinuated that it was all the fault of bush but thats old news. bush caused the extinction of the dinosaurs, bush caused the black plague, bush invented slavery, bush colonized africa, bush invented marxism just so he could have a villain, bush started ww1, bush caused the great depression, bush caused ww2, bush invented the atomic bomb so he could menace the future, bush invented global warming bush created the tech bubble, bush caused the semen stains on the blue dress, and bush caused the economic collapse which was begun in 1912 with the federal reserve act. ohh yeah, bush also apparently invented a time machine.

wmd's found in iraq, revealed via wikileaks:

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=15918

over 800 artillery shells containing mustard gas, VX, saran and other chemical weapons turned up, were dutifully concealed by the DOD to prevent panic, and then revealed through wikileaks.
dozens of scud missiles and their launchers were hidden in scrapyards, loaded fueled and ready to launch
half a dozen jet fighters which saddam was supposed toi turn over with the cease fire to protect the kurds and shia from his airforce were found in the desert.
mobile chemical weapons facilities were found, with residue of saran and mustard in their machinery.
chemical sprayers with traces of saran mustard and VX were found hidden in his many "Palaces"

and hans blix didnt find any of this shit. why? because he wasnt allowed to look. his conclusion that "we aint found shit" is not conclusive, since you lefties always omit the second part "but we werent allowed to look anyplace important"

yes, if you run a bank, then you ARE a capitalist. banks are the aggregators of capital. a socialist banker is as oxymoronic as a "Libertarian Socialist" or an "Anarchist Steering Committee"

i dont have to split hairs or use semantics. thats what you will now do.

 

[cannabineer]

What am I deflecting? There you go again. You are basing on emotion. You refuse me, my ground. I have taken no sides, here. And what you think the words mean, is meaningless to me. Words have legal definitions and there is the plethora of opinion. What you express to me, right now, I call the tyranny of opinion.

I am discussing the fine points yet you still must force a label for understanding. This will pass, I'm sure.

Put to the torment. It is different from torture. I can surely torment you emotionally and psychologically. You can make them think DOWN is up or it's last Weds.

Your definition is that any restraint can be torture accord to the whims of opinion. When I sat there chained to a bench and hunger, ignored. It was fucked up. When the cop hauled off and slapped me because I didn't want to tell my name? It has no end.

It cannot be self defined. Not legally. No one gets to say, well, I feel that is torture. Well, you can. But, when you start to say what is and is not by your opinion only, that is tyranny of opinion. Mob rule.

My view seems skewed to you. So what? Is that suppose to mean something to me? No?

Then the only reason is insult. Is any corporal punishment torture to you? Spanking?

A wedgie?

When I looked up "torment" and "torture" just now, i could not find enough difference to support your proposed division of terms. I think that torment and torture are synonymous in this case, and either is morally wrong in my considered opinion. cn

 

[Carthoris]

if you get caught wiuth a nickel bag and go to slam, thats unfortunate.

if while you are in slam, you spit on a screw and call him names trying to make him lose face, welll... sorry bro. you got a rough time comin and you earned it.

shit son, if you spit on a cop out in the world what do you think that cop will do to you?

and in slam, all violence gets multiplied by the refractory power of prison walls and cell doors. it's a pressure cooker, and only a fool will deliberately turn up the heat on himslef.

If I call a cop names they can't do anything. If I spit on them, they aren't allowed to torture me for an hour. I'd be rich Rodney King hour if they had pictures of someone being 'interrogated' like this at the police station after being arrested.

 

[Harrekin]

If I call a cop names they can't do anything. If I spit on them, they aren't allowed to torture me for an hour. I'd be rich Rodney King hour if they had pictures of someone being 'interrogated' like this at the police station after being arrested.

That's cos you're a citizen in the world as opposed to a convict in the pen.

Why would say a non-violent pot-dealer get into trouble with prison guards like that unless they'd revoked the "non-violent" part of their nature?

Why would a non violent convict spit on a member of the prison staff's face?

People like you and me don't get subjected to that shit unless we make a sequence of intentionally unwise choices.

 

[ultraviolet pirate]

anyone who doesn't think this is torture, I challenge you to a fight. just you and me and 5 of my meanest buddies. before hand we will arm ourselves with pepperspray, shields and helmets. you don't get shit. after we win by beating your little bitch ass till you shit your pants and handcuff you, when you ARE NO LONGER A THREAT, we will pepperspray you for seventeen minutes. I can give a little understanding toward soft little fucks that have never been arrested, and retards, but growers?

 

[Harrekin]

anyone who doesn't think this is torture, I challenge you to a fight. just you and me and 5 of my meanest buddies. before hand we will arm ourselves with pepperspray, shields and helmets. you don't get shit. after we win by beating your little bitch ass till you shit your pants and handcuff you, when you ARE NO LONGER A THREAT, we will pepperspray you for seventeen minutes. I can give a little understanding toward soft little fucks that have never been arrested, and retards, but growers?

If I refused to fight and never have you a reason to fight me...then why would you bother roughing me up?

 

[NLXSK1]

The guards should have asked him not to spit on them and said pretty please and the issue would have been resolved...

 

[Doer]

If I refused to fight and never have you a reason to fight me...then why would you bother roughing me up?

Exactly. Take it from me. I been in and out and in....long time ago. But, there two basic games we can play in or out.

Cooperation or Resistance. Because the jails are full of Resistance, if you want to be treated well, don't chat with the jailers but do everything they say. Now you are not a stooge, but in your jailers' minds, you are 10 cuts above everyone.

And since they can command your undivided attention for the length of your stay, Hint.....Cooperate.

 

[Doer]

anyone who doesn't think this is torture, I challenge you to a fight. just you and me and 5 of my meanest buddies. before hand we will arm ourselves with pepperspray, shields and helmets. you don't get shit. after we win by beating your little bitch ass till you shit your pants and handcuff you, when you ARE NO LONGER A THREAT, we will pepperspray you for seventeen minutes. I can give a little understanding toward soft little fucks that have never been arrested, and retards, but growers?

OK, but it will be brutal.

 

[Doer]

When I looked up "torment" and "torture" just now, i could not find enough difference to support your proposed division of terms. I think that torment and torture are synonymous in this case, and either is morally wrong in my considered opinion. cn

Well, both are morally wrong, but I'm just explaining the legal situation as I can see it. We torment.

But, as I said that is why we are hated. We make these fine shades of meaning in our on laws and then apply them to the world. 90% of Americans believe this is why the world is ready to accept us. We have a higher standard than anyone can see. Our President thinks he will try bowing. Why not?

But, the next one is bellicose. It's maddening to the Ayatollas and they will hand us our ass, just for this if nothing else, if they make their chance.

We can't give them the chance. Right? Most of the world doesn't make the distinction. But, most of the world does not go through the trouble to apply non-distructive torment. I mean, why? A meat hook seems so much more enjoyable.

Downing? Boring, time consuming, wet struggling. Not the same kind of gasping, more a gurgle. Why do we bother?

Because torture doesn't lead to information or cooperation. Witness John MacCain. And he still can't raise his right arm to scratch his eyebrow. He was tortured. But he became tougher. Torment done properly, like water boarding can make one quite compliant and will never toughen you up. It just deepens the dread of it. But, you are not harmed...physically. (but I doubt even that)
I imagine you end up with chronic pneumonia.

Torture and torment both are separated in the Inquisition, as I said. And that is also different from the distinction about blood and bone breaking. No Lasting disability seems to be the way we can say we don't torture.

So, when they show you the instruments of torture that's torment, and often that is all that was needed to get the confession in order to torture you to death.

So, again folks I don't take the right to condemn or condone. It is what it is. The world is same as it was 2000 years ago, to me. We have just refined the ancient and common practice of dunking someones head till they feel like cooperating.

We are not better. That's the problem with Americans. We moved slightly over into torment because it has a value over torture. Torture does not work. Everyone says this.

Torment on the other hand.....well, just imagine.

 

[ricky1lung]

canada is a euro-left nation. if you wish to argue that it is not, i will laugh in your face, and so will everyone except the euro-lefties and canadians for whom european new left politics are considered normal, and america is the oddity.

you gave no insight, you stated opinions disguised as facts. opinions which are False when treated as anything other than Opinion.

you implied that the us was the cause of the economic "collapse" and insinuated that it was all the fault of bush but thats old news. bush caused the extinction of the dinosaurs, bush caused the black plague, bush invented slavery, bush colonized africa, bush invented marxism just so he could have a villain, bush started ww1, bush caused the great depression, bush caused ww2, bush invented the atomic bomb so he could menace the future, bush invented global warming bush created the tech bubble, bush caused the semen stains on the blue dress, and bush caused the economic collapse which was begun in 1912 with the federal reserve act. ohh yeah, bush also apparently invented a time machine.

wmd's found in iraq, revealed via wikileaks:

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=15918

over 800 artillery shells containing mustard gas, VX, saran and other chemical weapons turned up, were dutifully concealed by the DOD to prevent panic, and then revealed through wikileaks.
dozens of scud missiles and their launchers were hidden in scrapyards, loaded fueled and ready to launch
half a dozen jet fighters which saddam was supposed toi turn over with the cease fire to protect the kurds and shia from his airforce were found in the desert.
mobile chemical weapons facilities were found, with residue of saran and mustard in their machinery.
chemical sprayers with traces of saran mustard and VX were found hidden in his many "Palaces"

and hans blix didnt find any of this shit. why? because he wasnt allowed to look. his conclusion that "we aint found shit" is not conclusive, since you lefties always omit the second part "but we werent allowed to look anyplace important"

yes, if you run a bank, then you ARE a capitalist. banks are the aggregators of capital. a socialist banker is as oxymoronic as a "Libertarian Socialist" or an "Anarchist Steering Committee"

i dont have to split hairs or use semantics. thats what you will now do.

Lol, so trolling a garbage dump was what needed to be done to find proof of WMD's? Essentially that is what your linked report is saying. Dig up a link to the wikileaks docs.
Also try to find some that did not come from communications originating on US soil or US intelligence.

The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added.

While that's reassuring, the agent remaining in the weapons would be very valuable to terrorists and insurgents, Maples said. "We're talking chemical agents here that could be packaged in a different format and have a great effect," he said, referencing the sarin-gas attack on a Japanese subway in the mid-1990s.
This is true even considering any degradation of the chemical agents that may have occurred, Chu said. It's not known exactly how sarin breaks down, but no matter how degraded the agent is, it's still toxic.

Of course we remain closely connected to the Brits, the queen is still on our currency, photos and paintings in gov offices, schools etc. However, just because our countries
share some of the same ideological views does not mean Canada is not it's own separate country going in its own direction based upon its own ideals. The Brits and Canada always have been and remain to be closely related. You dont seem to like that.

Not only did I imply, but I stated as fact that the US economy is tied so closely to global markets that it had an effect upon it's trading partners. I did not say they directly caused the global collapse all on it's own, but I did state they did have a major impact. Im sure other nations will look closely at whom they choose to trade with on a major scale in the future to protect themselves from being vulnerable to another nations markets in the future.

Lefties? So let me get this straight, If others do not agree with "your personal ideals" or have a difference of opinion we are lefties. I consider my self to be a straight shooter that doesn't put up with BS yet Im unwilling to cause harm or said BS to others. I tend to think that makes a straight shooter somewhere in the center, but there are those fundamentalists out there that will label it what they may.

Hans Blix, he was there based on direction of the UN, the very same organization that is corrupt, and Im sure you agree with at least that. If it were my country I wouldn't allow a corrupt horse and pony show in to "inspect" either. Im sure anytime the UN mentions anything wrong with the US you are one of the first to mention how corrupt they are and how wrong they are. The UN most probably is a double edged sword in your side.

You are completely wrong suggesting in order to run a bank you must be a capitalist. Banks are designed to make money, people are able to have their own beliefs outside of "Work"
that idea is clearly lost on you. Just because people like money and earn it hand over fist does not mean they must live their lives in a way that they would run a business.

No splitting hairs or semantics, just telling it straight.

BTW, I laid blame upon Bush as it falls, I did not suggest nor imply and of the ridiculous notions you set forth.

[video=youtube_share;eKgPY1adc0A]http://youtu.be/eKgPY1adc0A[/video]