TAX (not wealth) Dristributon

[Doer]

The USA is on par with the world with wealth distribution.....proportional selfish self-rule. But, we forget who we single out to pay for most it. WE the successful ones. The few, the proud Tax Payers float the entire boat. 1/2 pay for the other half to pay nothing.
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In 2002 the latest year of available data, the top 5 percent of taxpayers paid more than one-half (53.8 percent) of all individual income taxes, but reported roughly one-third (30.6 percent) of income.




The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid 33.7 percent of all individual income taxes in 2002. This group of taxpayers has paid more than 30 percent of individual income taxes since 1995. Moreover, since 1990 this group’s tax share has grown faster than their income share.



Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.


Treasury Department analysts credit President Bush's tax cuts with shifting a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

 

[Balzac89]

I would happily pay more taxes if I made more money. Society should punish those who horde wealth.

 

[DonPepe]

remember Michigan unions?

ahhh fuck, i started typing out a big long reply, then i remembers where i was posting it and remembered no one who care.

So to be short and sweet, I can see and understand both sides of this argument.

 

[UncleBuck]

in case you missed it, calling half the nation mooches when they are not is a pretty horrible strategy.

that 50% is composed of people who worked their entire lives and are now on SS, or people who work but don't make enough to pay taxes (EITC was a republican invention!). hell more than half the people in this nation who are on food stamps work for fuck sake, they are not freeloaders.

only something like 2-3% of this nation is on welfare, and i bet most of them have a damn good reason to be.

no one is gonna shed any tears for those poor, persecuted wealthy people, and the attack on working class america is sure to backfire.

but hey, no need to let history teach us any lessons, eh?

 

[Doer]

And they do, they do. Is that what you mean, though? I can read it two ways but both, I'd leave out punishment. The top brackets are cajoled. Social tinkering pile on, of loopholes, then they close. My friend was left holding 2 dozen rail cars in Asian service when that triple depreciation scam was pulled by the next Congress....every two years.

He felt punished to have it in the code in the first place.

But, is it punishment? Really, in your mind? In my mind it is the will of the People. Give back and is such a small minortiy with a lot of wealth, WE give (take) back. 1/2 pays for the other.

Now, all fight, I'm not. I propose some facts to discuss. If you are only left sputtering, don't bother. I don't make it up.

The other 1/2 has perfectly good reasons we help them. That also is the Will of the People. It is balanced and we sing in the sunshine while we eat bon-bons, get stoned and discuss the world on the interweb.

This also is the will of the People. Punished? No. They can donate to pay for loopholes.

 

[UncleBuck]

1/2 pays for the other.

that's just categorically false, and really stupid politics.

has history taught you nothing? based on your FDR history, i'd say so.

 

[Doer]

OK, that is not the way to it. That's a Mitt-ism, faux pas, isn't it? My bad. How is this?

The Corps and Businesses, plus slightly over 1/2 of the tax payers, get the privilege to pay for it all.

Now I don't see anything unfair about this? Do you? We haggle the edges every day, but a fair and progressive system.

Now what is not so fair is the other tax. The fees, the fares, the violations, the local taxing taxes of every kind are distinctly not progressive and hit the poorest the hardest.

 

[UncleBuck]

*slightly over 1/2 of the tax payers, get the privilege to pay for it all.

again, categorically false.

the gas station attendant *does not ask me how much i make before pumping my gas.

my landlord does not ask me how much i make when i pay my property tax.

no one asks me how much i make when i purchase a six pack of beer in a state with sales taxes.

my phone service does not ask me how much i make when they tack on all the little extras at the end of my bill, nor does my ISP.

one half does not pay for the other half, it's a completely false talking point that is only consumed by koolaid drinkers.

 

[Balzac89]

again, categorically false.

the gas station attendant *does not ask me how much i make before pumping my gas.

my landlord does not ask me how much i make when i pay my property tax.

no one asks me how much i make when i purchase a six pack of beer in a state with sales taxes.

my phone service does not ask me how much i make when they tack on all the little extras at the end of my bill, nor does my ISP.

one half does not pay for the other half, it's a completely false talking point that is only consumed by koolaid drinkers.

I like koolaid....

 

[MyPetSkunk]

only something like 2-3% of this nation is on welfare, and i bet most of them have a damn good reason to be.

Close. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

 

[NoDrama]

I would happily pay more taxes if I made more money. Society should punish those who horde wealth.

ACK!! What are you saying????

People who wish to save should be punished? Who are you to say what another should do with their wealth? Perhaps they would like to leave something for their children to inherit, or perhaps would like to have a scholarship setup for future generations. Government and the Fed already punish people who horde currency, you gonna take away their wealth too?

Maybe someone would like to stack some silver or gold and hold onto it for a rainy day ?? Maybe people like to collect rare cars, you gonna punish them too?

Wealth is not currency, wealth is money or it is things.

 

[NoDrama]

only something like 2-3% of this nation is on welfare, and i bet most of them have a damn good reason to be.

Except for Farmer "Welfare" right? We can't have them goddamned farmers being millionaires on the public's gas tanks now can we?

 

[NoDrama]

Close. http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Wait wait wait... That says that blacks get 39.8% of the welfare.

1,672,700 white people on welfare

1,711,400 Black people of welfare


223,553,265 Whites in USA


38,929,319 Blacks in USA


.07% of whites on welfare

4% of blacks on welfare

57 times as many blacks on welfare by statistical average than whites.

Major problem does not begin to describe the plight of black people.

 

[Nutes and Nugs]

in case you missed it, calling half the nation mooches when they are not is a pretty horrible strategy.

that 50% is composed of people who worked their entire lives and are now on SS, or people who work but don't make enough to pay taxes (EITC was a republican invention!). hell more than half the people in this nation who are on food stamps work for fuck sake, they are not freeloaders.

only something like 2-3% of this nation is on welfare, and i bet most of them have a damn good reason to be.

no one is gonna shed any tears for those poor, persecuted wealthy people, and the attack on working class america is sure to backfire.

but hey, no need to let history teach us any lessons, eh?

I puked in my mouth a little when I read this.

 

[Balzac89]

ACK!! What are you saying????

People who wish to save should be punished? Who are you to say what another should do with their wealth? Perhaps they would like to leave something for their children to inherit, or perhaps would like to have a scholarship setup for future generations. Government and the Fed already punish people who horde currency, you gonna take away their wealth too?

Maybe someone would like to stack some silver or gold and hold onto it for a rainy day ?? Maybe people like to collect rare cars, you gonna punish them too?

Wealth is not currency, wealth is money or it is things.

I'm not referring to anyone who has under a million dollars in their coffers. Individuals who horde billions of dollars in wealth. That wealth could create jobs, fund projects and do many good things.

 

[UncleBuck]

I'm not referring to anyone who has under a million dollars in their coffers. Individuals who horde billions of dollars in wealth. That wealth could create jobs, fund projects and do many good things.

that's a very teddy roosevelt type of sentiment right there.

 

[kpmarine]

I'm not referring to anyone who has under a million dollars in their coffers. Individuals who horde billions of dollars in wealth. That wealth could create jobs, fund projects and do many good things.

I am inclined to ask: Why should someone be punished for being wealthy? Why do you draw this line at the point you do? Zuckerberg has a net worth of about $14B due to his luck with FB. Why should he get "punished" for providing an insanely successful service? More money =/= more jobs; it only=more money.

 

[ginwilly]

Foodstamps no longer count as welfare? Why? No way only 2 or 3% of the population receives assistance. Is housing counted as welfare? What are they using as a metric for welfare to come up with 2%?

I would consider receiving money that I didn't earn from someone who did through governmental force as welfare.

 

[kpmarine]

Foodstamps no longer count as welfare? Why? No way only 2 or 3% of the population receives assistance. Is housing counted as welfare? What are they using as a metric for welfare to come up with 2%?

I would consider receiving money that I didn't earn from someone who did through governmental force as welfare.

Then you'd need some means of subtracting how much you have paid in from how much you have received.

 

[Doer]

again, categorically false.

the gas station attendant *does not ask me how much i make before pumping my gas.

my landlord does not ask me how much i make when i pay my property tax.

no one asks me how much i make when i purchase a six pack of beer in a state with sales taxes.

my phone service does not ask me how much i make when they tack on all the little extras at the end of my bill, nor does my ISP.

Nice job editing out the part of my post where I said that....so????

I meant that the poor get glossed over with the pap of a progresive tax system but the rest of the tax structure is draconian and regressive.

But, I do take your point. And it is easy to repeat the mantra, the poor are a burden. I'm beginning to see what you mean.

It occurs to me this the dirty side of all the zero sum economic theories. Lucky, in practice, there is no Zero Sum. We make a larger economy as we grow.

But, Zero Sum is in place when we talk about the rich. They got rich of the backs of the poor, right? Created no wealth, just shifted it? NO.

This works both ways, I see now. The Poor don't take from society. And the Rich don't either. Good. I see.