Its not my recipe, all credit goes to "Komagrows" on youtube for showing what he uses. What do you mean by quality compost? Like dirt from a compost pile? Or Earth worm castings? I dont do either. I dont want any more nitrogen in my soil than there absolutely has to be. I don't need to use compost, when I can innoculate pure spores with the beneficials that I need.
sharing my modified subcool super soil recipe
- Thread starter sidewing
- Start date
Dubzero2012
New Member
gotta respect a pro when you see one!!! Nice plants
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Whitey- I did review the few treads I could find on the two strains that I'm running but I wasn't able to find any growers using supersoil with these strains... most growers did seem to be running them for around 10 weeks... I'll do as you advise and tweak the ss mix and the percentage on the next run...
Your watering everyday in 7 gallon smarties? I'm watering every 7 or 8 days (?)... i let the pots get light in weight... right before they start to wilt... pre-wet the medium with about 2 cups of water... wait about 15 minutes then water slowly until there is a small amount of water coming out the bottom of the pots... currently (day 9) plants are taking in 1.25 gal/week... the plants appear vigorous for several days after their watering then they seem to lose some of that vigor after a few days until their next watering... any suggestions?
Thank you for your help and support!
Your watering everyday in 7 gallon smarties? I'm watering every 7 or 8 days (?)... i let the pots get light in weight... right before they start to wilt... pre-wet the medium with about 2 cups of water... wait about 15 minutes then water slowly until there is a small amount of water coming out the bottom of the pots... currently (day 9) plants are taking in 1.25 gal/week... the plants appear vigorous for several days after their watering then they seem to lose some of that vigor after a few days until their next watering... any suggestions?
Thank you for your help and support!
I'm using roots organics for my base that seems like it has a lot of perlite in it for some reason... These are the ones that dont have a whole lot of concentrate in them so maybe thats why I'm watering so often... Its all good though but be prepared to be watering as much or close to it once you get close to the finish line... Its part of the job, its not a problem for me one way or another and I was only stating, not making any kind of suggestions as to what you should be doing. But smart pots will always need to be watered more than hard pots because all of the soil is basically exposed to the air and doesnt have a plastic barrier to keep the moisture in, they breath better...
I wouldnt let them dry out to the point of almost wilting though, I used to think that was a good thing as well but its best to not let them dry out so much... When you let the soil dry out completely your killing off the microlife and restarting it when you water... let the top dry out a bit but get familiar with the weight when your getting close to them needing water... Once I see the sides starting to get pulled towards the center of the pot a little bit, I know its close to needing watering or needs it already. It will all come together though, dont stress about dumb shit...
No biggie on whats already done dude... I would just suggest leaving the teas alone until you see some fading or an indicator of them needing more food in some way because I think your gonna have too much... It will all work out but just try to add only things you see they need like ca/mg if needed, other than that I dont think you'll need much... Hit them with a sugar at days 30 and 45 of 12/12 and let it ride... see where it lands... If they're green by the time they need to be harvested, you know they need less thats all... relax and enjoy the process as it only gets better as you learn.
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Bodego- I've watched several of Komas videos since you made me aware of him... he seems like he is getting great results... have you tried his veg and flower recipes?
With regards to the compost... not dirt or EWC but composted fruits, veggies, autumn leaves, wood chips, straw,etc... you had mentioned that EWC's could be added to Komas tea recipe... I started thinking that EWC's added to a AACT would extract a larger ratio of bacteria to fungi... where as when compost is added to AACT's it tends to bring out a larger ratio of fungi... from what I understand the plants prefer a larger bacteria to fungi ratio during veg and a larger ratio of fungi during flower... the pure spores that you are referring to I'm assuming are mycorrhizae spores?
With regards to the compost... not dirt or EWC but composted fruits, veggies, autumn leaves, wood chips, straw,etc... you had mentioned that EWC's could be added to Komas tea recipe... I started thinking that EWC's added to a AACT would extract a larger ratio of bacteria to fungi... where as when compost is added to AACT's it tends to bring out a larger ratio of fungi... from what I understand the plants prefer a larger bacteria to fungi ratio during veg and a larger ratio of fungi during flower... the pure spores that you are referring to I'm assuming are mycorrhizae spores?
I've never tried his flower or veg recipes. Honestly didn't know he had them. I've never had a need to make any sort of compost tea in order to stop fading, only to revive my beneficials, and if for some reason i did see fading, I would recommend top dressing with SS, or some sort of liquid organic nutes over a compost tea. I know he has a "bean sauce" recipe for clones and seedlings that seems to give SUPERB results, but I've just never used it.
I'm referring to Roots Oregonism XL. It has Mycorrhizae, tricoderma, bacillus and humic acid. It has the spore per gram measurements on the back of the bag. Great white has the same mixture as well, just slightly different strains and spore per gram measurements.
In regards to the compost you speak of. I dont want to add anything into my roots without knowing its NPK ratios. I'm sure there are tons of beneficials in there, but in my opinion, its not worth it. It seems like the wood and leaves would make it really acidic.
I'm referring to Roots Oregonism XL. It has Mycorrhizae, tricoderma, bacillus and humic acid. It has the spore per gram measurements on the back of the bag. Great white has the same mixture as well, just slightly different strains and spore per gram measurements.
In regards to the compost you speak of. I dont want to add anything into my roots without knowing its NPK ratios. I'm sure there are tons of beneficials in there, but in my opinion, its not worth it. It seems like the wood and leaves would make it really acidic.
Compost and worm castings have no real NPK values unless its compost from amended soil etc... Or at least not enough to affect anything other than the microbial life in the soil... Theres some nutrition that will get passed off but not much with just compost or castings, they are however where a good portion of an organic soils magic comes from...... Compost and/or castings are the main source of life in any tea... Other ingredients add different things but either of those are going to be the main item...
Top dressing after the halfway point in 12/12 is not advisable and why I suggested a tea with some additions to it... When you top dress its not a complete or immediate release of nutrition and is gonna take some time to get into the plant for 1, and for 2 theres no real way to gauge how long said top dress is going to last... Its like saying... ok I'm going to top dress with a "X" cups of supersoil, thats gonna last for "X" amount of time... with the same plant, same exact soil and amendments, and with some time.... yes... you can/will have a pretty good idea how long its gonna last as well as how long its gonna take to get into the plant but either way... its not a wise idea once your plants are beyond a certain point in their life cycle... If you see early fading or signs of needing more food before the halfway point of 12/12, absolutely yes, hit them up with a top dress... I actually suggest leaving space in the pot just for that purpose... Top dress with either supersoil, or just castings or compost, and then brew up a tea to get the top dress into action faster...
Teas can be tailored to what your plants need, when they need it... Teas can either be A. just a way to revive the micro-life in your soil... Or B. a way to feed completely if thats what you wanna do... or C. a mixture of both.. As far as trying to correct a deficiency with a bottled product... thats what we are (or at least I am) trying to not do... Bottled fish products like general organics "bio-marine" or maxi crops 5-1-1 are decent, I use both... I also have general organics grow and bloom.. basically the entire GO line, but I wont use any of it if as long as I can do what I need to do with a tea or whatever... I'd rather not use bottled anything if I dont have to... However... I keep bags of botanicare (or maybe its the organicare brand) "Pure" which is a dry, granular all purpose fertilizer that comes in grow (5-5-5) and bloom (1-4-6) which I use in my teas when I'm using them to feed.. And I also use it for my plants that I dont have in super soil or when I transplant from the cloner to a small pot I'll add a little to the bottom of the solo cup or 4x4x4 square pots I use to give them a little something to hold them over until I decide what I'm going to do.
The only reason I am reiterating all this stuff is because its good to have options... I use super soil, teas, bottled fish products, dry all purpose ferts... As far as compost, just make sure its a decent product, or your own compost where you know what it is and its decent... Worm castings, they are the life-blood of any good organic soil... Bagged works but I suggest making yourself a worm farm and getting the best product possible made in your own garden... where you can amend with greensand, alfalfa meal and all sorts of other stuff so you can super-charge your castings before you even use them. There are limitations to adding amendments to a worm farm so dont just go adding anything if you do get into it, do some reading first... But I have mine all built I just need to buy the worms and put them to work... All the leftover bullshit fan leaves and stems and any other plant matter left over from your grows can be turned right back into food for your upcoming grows...
Top dressing after the halfway point in 12/12 is not advisable and why I suggested a tea with some additions to it... When you top dress its not a complete or immediate release of nutrition and is gonna take some time to get into the plant for 1, and for 2 theres no real way to gauge how long said top dress is going to last... Its like saying... ok I'm going to top dress with a "X" cups of supersoil, thats gonna last for "X" amount of time... with the same plant, same exact soil and amendments, and with some time.... yes... you can/will have a pretty good idea how long its gonna last as well as how long its gonna take to get into the plant but either way... its not a wise idea once your plants are beyond a certain point in their life cycle... If you see early fading or signs of needing more food before the halfway point of 12/12, absolutely yes, hit them up with a top dress... I actually suggest leaving space in the pot just for that purpose... Top dress with either supersoil, or just castings or compost, and then brew up a tea to get the top dress into action faster...
Teas can be tailored to what your plants need, when they need it... Teas can either be A. just a way to revive the micro-life in your soil... Or B. a way to feed completely if thats what you wanna do... or C. a mixture of both.. As far as trying to correct a deficiency with a bottled product... thats what we are (or at least I am) trying to not do... Bottled fish products like general organics "bio-marine" or maxi crops 5-1-1 are decent, I use both... I also have general organics grow and bloom.. basically the entire GO line, but I wont use any of it if as long as I can do what I need to do with a tea or whatever... I'd rather not use bottled anything if I dont have to... However... I keep bags of botanicare (or maybe its the organicare brand) "Pure" which is a dry, granular all purpose fertilizer that comes in grow (5-5-5) and bloom (1-4-6) which I use in my teas when I'm using them to feed.. And I also use it for my plants that I dont have in super soil or when I transplant from the cloner to a small pot I'll add a little to the bottom of the solo cup or 4x4x4 square pots I use to give them a little something to hold them over until I decide what I'm going to do.
The only reason I am reiterating all this stuff is because its good to have options... I use super soil, teas, bottled fish products, dry all purpose ferts... As far as compost, just make sure its a decent product, or your own compost where you know what it is and its decent... Worm castings, they are the life-blood of any good organic soil... Bagged works but I suggest making yourself a worm farm and getting the best product possible made in your own garden... where you can amend with greensand, alfalfa meal and all sorts of other stuff so you can super-charge your castings before you even use them. There are limitations to adding amendments to a worm farm so dont just go adding anything if you do get into it, do some reading first... But I have mine all built I just need to buy the worms and put them to work... All the leftover bullshit fan leaves and stems and any other plant matter left over from your grows can be turned right back into food for your upcoming grows...
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Whitey... good stuff!
I get your point about the micoherd getting killed off as the soil dries up... I'll try watering a little earlier and see how the girls respond...
You deserve credit... my garden seems to be responding very well to the let the soil do the work approach and I'm not stressing near as much... just sitting back and enjoying... thanks man...
Bodego... that's what I'll do... top dress with supersoil if they start to fade early...
I saw the youtube video that Komas made on his "bean sauce" recipe. Your right...thats a good one and simple!
I've been using Xtreme Gardening Mykos which contains Glomus intraradices @ 80 spores per gram... should Xtreme Mykos have a more diverse population?
I understand that it's important to know the NPK ratios before adding it to the roots... that makes perfect sense... but how do you figure out the NPK of a homemade mix/brew NPK without having it tested by a lab or can one only estimate?
Thanks for your incredible support... with all of your knowledge.. your garden must be beautiful!
I have a couple of additional questions:
1) What is the proper pH range for runoff in organic soil? The reason that I'm asking is that on the last watering, using tea, my runoff was 5.7 ph (6.4 tea). I thought that I might be having nute lockout issues at 5.7 ph runoff but the girls are looking healthy.
2) My old watering plan has changed... for the rest of this grow I plan to be watering with RO water, calmag (60-80ppm) and humid acid (I did not add additional humic acid to my supersoil mix). Should I be adding humic acid and at every watering? And if so... at what dose (50% of the label dosage recommendation of 1-2 tbs)?
THANKS AGAIN!
I get your point about the micoherd getting killed off as the soil dries up... I'll try watering a little earlier and see how the girls respond...
You deserve credit... my garden seems to be responding very well to the let the soil do the work approach and I'm not stressing near as much... just sitting back and enjoying... thanks man...
Bodego... that's what I'll do... top dress with supersoil if they start to fade early...
I saw the youtube video that Komas made on his "bean sauce" recipe. Your right...thats a good one and simple!
I've been using Xtreme Gardening Mykos which contains Glomus intraradices @ 80 spores per gram... should Xtreme Mykos have a more diverse population?
I understand that it's important to know the NPK ratios before adding it to the roots... that makes perfect sense... but how do you figure out the NPK of a homemade mix/brew NPK without having it tested by a lab or can one only estimate?
Thanks for your incredible support... with all of your knowledge.. your garden must be beautiful!
I have a couple of additional questions:
1) What is the proper pH range for runoff in organic soil? The reason that I'm asking is that on the last watering, using tea, my runoff was 5.7 ph (6.4 tea). I thought that I might be having nute lockout issues at 5.7 ph runoff but the girls are looking healthy.
2) My old watering plan has changed... for the rest of this grow I plan to be watering with RO water, calmag (60-80ppm) and humid acid (I did not add additional humic acid to my supersoil mix). Should I be adding humic acid and at every watering? And if so... at what dose (50% of the label dosage recommendation of 1-2 tbs)?
THANKS AGAIN!
As far as the PH dude, relax... Continue with your chores and your normal daily work in the garden, keep it in mind, if you havent gotten the soil meter... get it when you can and make it an every week check or something... check the ph in each plants pot and make sure its decent... unless you otherwise see something going on.. keep an eye on them and watch the new growth, obviously watch the old as well, but the new is the important one and where you'd more than likely see a PH problem first...
As far as where you are with this grow, or at least I think you are from what you've described.. I honestly suggest just trying to stick with the waterings only and hit them with sweeteners like we've talked about more or less.... But if the 50% of your SS is even a remote possibility of being too much, you wanna try and let it use up everything it can, possibly getting the fade you want... I didnt say you were fcked.. you shit is still gonna be dank weather its green or faded to whatever color...The important things are keeping them from stressing at all, trying to get them to fade properly is probably next aside from keeping hermies at bay, however the taking it easy and not over doing it method will assist you in keeping your garden female or male, no pro-creators... When you see reports of herms all over the place, know that a good portion of that is from over feeding, hot soils, soils with amendments that werent composted enough... I've done it all man... The point of easing into strains is to slowly see what they can take and having replacement clones on standby if they do herm on you..
But I suggest just watering with ca/mg+ as you said, for 2, 3, maybe even 4 waterings without anything else... just to see how well the soil will take them... Either your gonna see them grow like crazy as long as you have sufficient light, or they're gonna grow like crazy and start showing defs... my money is on they're gonna keep getting darker green and grow quite nicely... If you see it lacking, adjust... Feed them more when they need more, you will have time to correct it, if you spend half as much time in your garden as I do you'll see the problem coming... But just read the fine print on everything you do end up using as far as ratings and make sure you arent double dosing too much of any one thing thats all...
Just relax and enjoy the show, once you hit 12/12 if you havent (I cant remember atm)... make sure all your bigger cola's have stakes or whatever you are working with, then just water and watch...
As far as where you are with this grow, or at least I think you are from what you've described.. I honestly suggest just trying to stick with the waterings only and hit them with sweeteners like we've talked about more or less.... But if the 50% of your SS is even a remote possibility of being too much, you wanna try and let it use up everything it can, possibly getting the fade you want... I didnt say you were fcked.. you shit is still gonna be dank weather its green or faded to whatever color...The important things are keeping them from stressing at all, trying to get them to fade properly is probably next aside from keeping hermies at bay, however the taking it easy and not over doing it method will assist you in keeping your garden female or male, no pro-creators... When you see reports of herms all over the place, know that a good portion of that is from over feeding, hot soils, soils with amendments that werent composted enough... I've done it all man... The point of easing into strains is to slowly see what they can take and having replacement clones on standby if they do herm on you..
But I suggest just watering with ca/mg+ as you said, for 2, 3, maybe even 4 waterings without anything else... just to see how well the soil will take them... Either your gonna see them grow like crazy as long as you have sufficient light, or they're gonna grow like crazy and start showing defs... my money is on they're gonna keep getting darker green and grow quite nicely... If you see it lacking, adjust... Feed them more when they need more, you will have time to correct it, if you spend half as much time in your garden as I do you'll see the problem coming... But just read the fine print on everything you do end up using as far as ratings and make sure you arent double dosing too much of any one thing thats all...
Just relax and enjoy the show, once you hit 12/12 if you havent (I cant remember atm)... make sure all your bigger cola's have stakes or whatever you are working with, then just water and watch...
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Bro... I went back through everything you have discussed in this thread and took detailed notes... I'm VERY comfortable with it ALL... I just want to be able to go back and review what you've taught me from time to time... so I don't get any wild ass ideas in the future... if you know what I mean...
I don't think the hydro shops are going to be nearly as happy as I am about the changes I've made... I have very little to purchase from them anymore and now they seem to get nervous when I start reading the labels...
It's fantastic that you built your own worm farm. I've been wanting to build one myself. We eat mostly all organic foods from small local farms that we purchase the food directly from... the quality is as good as it gets... I just need construction plans and I'll get that worm farm up and going in know time...
About the GO Biomarine... can I assume that would go into a feeding tea?
Can a plant hermi if it recieved too much bending over, topping, fimming, LST, etc in veg? (I did them all this round) Are there times in 12/12 that nanners are more likely to appear?
Soil meter (I have a ph pen and truncheon)... I need some help finding a reliable soil ph meter... the reviews seem to be shit on these meters unless one wants to spend big bucks... I'll spend if I need to but...
Nice to be kicking back... thinking about worm farms and shit... can't thank you enough man!!!
I don't think the hydro shops are going to be nearly as happy as I am about the changes I've made... I have very little to purchase from them anymore and now they seem to get nervous when I start reading the labels...
It's fantastic that you built your own worm farm. I've been wanting to build one myself. We eat mostly all organic foods from small local farms that we purchase the food directly from... the quality is as good as it gets... I just need construction plans and I'll get that worm farm up and going in know time...
About the GO Biomarine... can I assume that would go into a feeding tea?
Can a plant hermi if it recieved too much bending over, topping, fimming, LST, etc in veg? (I did them all this round) Are there times in 12/12 that nanners are more likely to appear?
Soil meter (I have a ph pen and truncheon)... I need some help finding a reliable soil ph meter... the reviews seem to be shit on these meters unless one wants to spend big bucks... I'll spend if I need to but...
Nice to be kicking back... thinking about worm farms and shit... can't thank you enough man!!!
- Can a plant hermi if it recieved too much bending over, topping, fimming, LST, etc in veg? (I did them all this round) Are there times in 12/12 that nanners are more likely to appear?
I dont think a plant could herm from too much stress in Veg like you're saying. Those guys that do the mainlining work the shit out of there plants and they all grow up healthy and stable as far as I can see.
To answer your other question I can only speak from experience. Any time I've found nanners was day 50+ of 12/12. This was also from bagseed, never reputable genetics.
I thought I responded to you the other day, I guess I walked away mid-post... I be doin' that when I'm high.... "huh"... should be my name after a harvest... Not that I'm lazy or any of that, I just get so burnt from the repetitive late nights and constant puffing... All enjoyable but my daytime mentality gets kinda slow-mo'ed.... huh?
Weeks 3-5, but 4 is where you really wanna keep an eye out.. If a strain is gonna herm on you, week 4 and beyond is usually when its going to happen...
Any kind of stress instance can cause a herm, training isnt really that big of a deal.. If you keep doing it without giving them some time to bounce back in between training sessions I'd say maybe but for the most part you shouldnt have to worry about that....
It can happen with any genetics but some are more prone to it... The biggest causes are light leaks... An LED on a surge protector has done it to me a couple times.... If you let your finishing plants go too long they'll start to pop up with end of life nanners...
I find with TGA genetics the strians with JTR as the pappy have been the ones to get me, only because the nanners werent sterile.. They will fuck your sensi garden up... I had a whole 4x8 tent of the void and chernobyl (chernobyl was the skeeter...) that were completely seeded.... Obviously it was my fault for stressing them in some way... A couple light leaks... A little of this, a few days without electricity... shit be happ-nin... But some nanners will be sterile, some wont be... Its best to toss any strains that herm though... Get another pack of seeds and start again if you liked it... Some people suggest hitting hermed out plants with dutch masters "reverse" but I'd rather start new seeds...
The seed run I did a run or 2 ago I had a fruity pebbles AOS and a couple amazing cheese quakes nanner out on me... I believe it was due to me dropping the improperly cooked SS on them and burned the shit out of their roots for a few weeks before getting them out of it with compost teas... Another cut of CQ I had just couldnt handle the SS... Nanners happen with good genetics and not so good, some things arent avoidable... Its a goal of mine now to get all my plants grown from beginning to end with zero stress instances... I have yet to do it, I've obviously got through quite a few grows without nanners but the stress instances are getting less to non-existent now...
The bio marine gets used in teas yes... I will also use it once in a while just straight on the plants if I see they need some thing but as you said mostly for the teas..
I got my PH tester at an agway or something, I think for like $14... I'm gonna be in the market for a new one soon, when I figure out what I'm buying I'll let you know but I'm not there yet... I think one in the $40-50 range is about as good as you or I would need...
I havent started my worm farm yet.. I have it built but I havent put it into service yet.. I'm just about to the point of tipping my couches over for the spare change that falls out of my guests pockets at the moment but as soon as I get some fund-age to finish all my started projects I'll let you know... I'll post pics of what I have already, basically all I have to do is add worms and the organic waste from my grows I've been hanging onto for them, I dont really have a yard to go out worm hunting in after a rain... But all the waste from any of the foods you eat, (no meat) and some added stuff can make some amazing castings from what I've been reading... But basically I took 3 good sized rubbermade containers, put a drain on the bottom one, drilled holes in the bottoms of the 2 inners and made some spacers with pvc pipe to put some space between each container for worms and the castings to fall into the bottom one eventually... The drain is to drain off extra water I dont want and the worm lechate (I think thats how its spelled)...
Its nice not spending loads of cash at the hydro stores anymore... I went into a newer one about a month and a half ago... I was asking if they had dolomite lime... "nope"... alfalfa meal "nope"... crushed oyster shell... "nope" do you have any organic amendments? "Uhh... you grow a very specific way... and I cant really make any $ on people who grow like you..." the guy said to me... But this place had nothing for this type of growing.. I was trying to get stuff to make SS and a few other amendments, I left with a gallon of strapped and a 2 pound bag of 0-7-0 guano, that was it... I had like $200 to spend... I was kinda trying to waste it and I couldnt...
Weeks 3-5, but 4 is where you really wanna keep an eye out.. If a strain is gonna herm on you, week 4 and beyond is usually when its going to happen...
Any kind of stress instance can cause a herm, training isnt really that big of a deal.. If you keep doing it without giving them some time to bounce back in between training sessions I'd say maybe but for the most part you shouldnt have to worry about that....
It can happen with any genetics but some are more prone to it... The biggest causes are light leaks... An LED on a surge protector has done it to me a couple times.... If you let your finishing plants go too long they'll start to pop up with end of life nanners...
I find with TGA genetics the strians with JTR as the pappy have been the ones to get me, only because the nanners werent sterile.. They will fuck your sensi garden up... I had a whole 4x8 tent of the void and chernobyl (chernobyl was the skeeter...) that were completely seeded.... Obviously it was my fault for stressing them in some way... A couple light leaks... A little of this, a few days without electricity... shit be happ-nin... But some nanners will be sterile, some wont be... Its best to toss any strains that herm though... Get another pack of seeds and start again if you liked it... Some people suggest hitting hermed out plants with dutch masters "reverse" but I'd rather start new seeds...
The seed run I did a run or 2 ago I had a fruity pebbles AOS and a couple amazing cheese quakes nanner out on me... I believe it was due to me dropping the improperly cooked SS on them and burned the shit out of their roots for a few weeks before getting them out of it with compost teas... Another cut of CQ I had just couldnt handle the SS... Nanners happen with good genetics and not so good, some things arent avoidable... Its a goal of mine now to get all my plants grown from beginning to end with zero stress instances... I have yet to do it, I've obviously got through quite a few grows without nanners but the stress instances are getting less to non-existent now...
The bio marine gets used in teas yes... I will also use it once in a while just straight on the plants if I see they need some thing but as you said mostly for the teas..
I got my PH tester at an agway or something, I think for like $14... I'm gonna be in the market for a new one soon, when I figure out what I'm buying I'll let you know but I'm not there yet... I think one in the $40-50 range is about as good as you or I would need...
I havent started my worm farm yet.. I have it built but I havent put it into service yet.. I'm just about to the point of tipping my couches over for the spare change that falls out of my guests pockets at the moment but as soon as I get some fund-age to finish all my started projects I'll let you know... I'll post pics of what I have already, basically all I have to do is add worms and the organic waste from my grows I've been hanging onto for them, I dont really have a yard to go out worm hunting in after a rain... But all the waste from any of the foods you eat, (no meat) and some added stuff can make some amazing castings from what I've been reading... But basically I took 3 good sized rubbermade containers, put a drain on the bottom one, drilled holes in the bottoms of the 2 inners and made some spacers with pvc pipe to put some space between each container for worms and the castings to fall into the bottom one eventually... The drain is to drain off extra water I dont want and the worm lechate (I think thats how its spelled)...
Its nice not spending loads of cash at the hydro stores anymore... I went into a newer one about a month and a half ago... I was asking if they had dolomite lime... "nope"... alfalfa meal "nope"... crushed oyster shell... "nope" do you have any organic amendments? "Uhh... you grow a very specific way... and I cant really make any $ on people who grow like you..." the guy said to me... But this place had nothing for this type of growing.. I was trying to get stuff to make SS and a few other amendments, I left with a gallon of strapped and a 2 pound bag of 0-7-0 guano, that was it... I had like $200 to spend... I was kinda trying to waste it and I couldnt...
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Whitey
I know what you mean about that night puffing... through in a little vino... just can"t recover like the old days...
I know all about those light leaks... the tent the hydro guy sold me was full of light leaks... I don't mean like ten or twenty... I mean like thousands... I ended up wrapping the whole damn thing in panda wrap... I didn't know that some of these tents are crap before I bought one... next time... I hope to do my homework before I open my wallet...
Sterile nanners... I figured all nanners were full of pollen... must have to open them up to see if their fertile or not?
When it comes to the soil ph testers... I hear a lot of the cheap ones can be misleading... but yeah... I'm game for one dude.. let me know if you come up with one...
At least you have your worm farm built... I'm thinking about building mine out of wood but still trying to decide between wood and plastic...
Picked up a couple comfrey plants the other day... started reading about how to plant them and all... got a little nervous about them taking over my property... lol...
Hydro store guys are disrespectful to the organic growers!... they need to drop their attitude... it's like their pissed that their not going to make a ton of money off of us... their missing an opportunity... it doesn't take that much shelf space to carry organic amendments and what not... I'm taking my business to the garden shops... not the stress there... but your right... it's nice not having to shell out a ton of cash on this grow stuff every time we walk out the door...
Hey bro... thanks again for helping me out... but of course I always have more questions... I know... I'm being a pain in the ass... sorry...
I'm now using RO water... after adding less than 100 ppm (using Blue Lab trucheon) of Botanicare CalMag+(don't have the GO ca/mg yet) and Humic acid... the ph dropped to 5.2 (Blue Lab ph pen)... I figured the ph was way too low for my gals... so I added Earth Juice ph up... I had previously dissolved the EJ crystals in a glass of hot water to make a solution... then I adjusted the ph of the water using the solution (in a 5 gallon bucket bubbling)... the ph appeared to stabilize at 6.6 but the next morning it was up to 7.8... I ended up dumping it all... I know there must be an easier way of using Earth Juice ph up and down??... assuming that the water needed adjustment in the first place(?)...
EDIT: I changed the above paragraph by adding in the brand name Bontanicare and adding Humic acid ( instrumental in lowering the ph)
Question should simply ask- What is your preferred method of using Earth Juice up and down??
Pumart
The recipe needs to cook... same deal as sub cools... 30+ days... are you going to give it a try?
I know what you mean about that night puffing... through in a little vino... just can"t recover like the old days...
I know all about those light leaks... the tent the hydro guy sold me was full of light leaks... I don't mean like ten or twenty... I mean like thousands... I ended up wrapping the whole damn thing in panda wrap... I didn't know that some of these tents are crap before I bought one... next time... I hope to do my homework before I open my wallet...
Sterile nanners... I figured all nanners were full of pollen... must have to open them up to see if their fertile or not?
When it comes to the soil ph testers... I hear a lot of the cheap ones can be misleading... but yeah... I'm game for one dude.. let me know if you come up with one...
At least you have your worm farm built... I'm thinking about building mine out of wood but still trying to decide between wood and plastic...
Picked up a couple comfrey plants the other day... started reading about how to plant them and all... got a little nervous about them taking over my property... lol...
Hydro store guys are disrespectful to the organic growers!... they need to drop their attitude... it's like their pissed that their not going to make a ton of money off of us... their missing an opportunity... it doesn't take that much shelf space to carry organic amendments and what not... I'm taking my business to the garden shops... not the stress there... but your right... it's nice not having to shell out a ton of cash on this grow stuff every time we walk out the door...
Hey bro... thanks again for helping me out... but of course I always have more questions... I know... I'm being a pain in the ass... sorry...
I'm now using RO water... after adding less than 100 ppm (using Blue Lab trucheon) of Botanicare CalMag+(don't have the GO ca/mg yet) and Humic acid... the ph dropped to 5.2 (Blue Lab ph pen)... I figured the ph was way too low for my gals... so I added Earth Juice ph up... I had previously dissolved the EJ crystals in a glass of hot water to make a solution... then I adjusted the ph of the water using the solution (in a 5 gallon bucket bubbling)... the ph appeared to stabilize at 6.6 but the next morning it was up to 7.8... I ended up dumping it all... I know there must be an easier way of using Earth Juice ph up and down??... assuming that the water needed adjustment in the first place(?)...
EDIT: I changed the above paragraph by adding in the brand name Bontanicare and adding Humic acid ( instrumental in lowering the ph)
Question should simply ask- What is your preferred method of using Earth Juice up and down??
Pumart
The recipe needs to cook... same deal as sub cools... 30+ days... are you going to give it a try?
Crab pot.... Vino... We might be from the same area... I'm in my 30's so in my opinion I think I'm just becoming an adult, you realize you know absolutely nothing about life regardless of how all figured out you had the whole "real world" thing from 14 till about 30 or so then I kinda woke the fuck up and realized I was sadly misinformed with my assumptions of the "real world"... actually I'll be 35 this coming week... not really looking towards the one year older part.. I still feel like a 20 year old thats slightly more responsible I guess, slightly... I never had kids so I never really had to worry about becoming a responsible adult for anyone but myself and the women I was involved with at the time... Its a little easier when there isnt a little whitey78 Jr. there where just leaving, or not doing the right thing is not an option... I'm not a slacker by any means, I dont wanna be anyhow, I work my ass off day and night for not a whole lot, and I'm a skilled tradesperson, no kinda jack of all trades, master of none.. Not me brah.. I'm good at what I do... I do have teenage siblings... so I guess I'm like a second father to them... However, even at this age a hard night out takes 3 hard days + or - to feel almost kinda right... almost.. kinda... I dont really do the "hard night" out anymore but I will sauce it up a little once in a while when I go out to eat or something but I try not to go out to drink only, I much rather puff the ganj... But I do like margaritas, sounds a bit bitchish but after 2 or 3 of those where you replace the triple sec with grand marnier (90 proof)... whooo... they aint so bitchy anymore, nothing is after that... along with a few puffs... Things become ahhh-iiight after that, lol...
You know what I say about adjusting the PH-ing of any liquids... So theres your answer right there... This entire run that I did, the 4 AOS girls never once had the PH of anything checked (aside the soil) never mind adjusted, as well as the cheese quakes that are just starting to get their bud sets going on, nada... never... I check the PH of the soil once they root in the final pots which is 2-3 weeks after final transplant..... then before flip, and mid 12/12 and then let it ride... Basically no real method, just try to remember to do it occasionally unless you see some funk going on... Most times if you see some kind of deficiency or something that appears to be PH related is more than likely going to be your supersoil running out of gas... something or another has been used up... usually in most cases with subcools supersoil recipe, the first thing you see when you're running out is the N... Then you need to see where you are in reference to the finish line and make the decision if you are going to top dress or not, I'd say after week 4 on an 8-9 weeker I'd say no... figure something else out and supplement, I'd go very light on N after the halfway as I have said... Or top dress a very little and see what happens but if you are just starting to see signs of def.s coming at week 4, I'd say no....
All this talk of light leaks had me all heated up so I ran down to do a check seeing I've been moving things around and changing setups.... I went in to find 3 surge protectors beaming... 2 in my veg tent, I couldnt really see them, they werent beaming but I could see reddish orange light coming through and around the tape... I put another layer of the actual aluminum duct tape on them.. and one outside my flowering tent which was covered but it was pointing right at my tent where the zipper is, I leave that zipper open on occasion when I want more air to get to the lower fans in the tent and blow up...
The nanners.... some will actually turn into pollen sacs... I think the banana's are sterile for the most part, I dont believe they'll actually shoot pollen, I could be wrong.. but some herms will produce actual pollen sacs, check that out... all I know is they suck and I look out for both banana's in the buds and pollen sacs at the base of branches etc... where ever... I go up and down every branch of plants starting around the end of week 3 till about 6 every few days or more if I can with anything I havent grown out before, but I use one of those LED head lamps, that shit works nice when you suspect a plant, you definitely cant see them under the red-light of HPS and under the blue it can be tough depending on the color of the buds but the whitish LED works nice..... You'll get those little sterile white seeds around where the nanners pop up depending on when the nanners popped up, the earlier they pop up, the closer to actually being viable the seeds will be... Dont ever use them though...
If enough pollen is let out, and gets all over a plant, meaning hitting it in several different branches, not concentrated like with the bananas, an actual pollen sac... the plants will shut down bud production and go into seed making mode stopping the production of bud because reproduction is their purpose, I dont know what the % of plant that has to be pollinated but once they hit a certain point they halt bud and make seeds... no longer supplying us with that nice sensi... If you get a little pollen on a branch or 2, they may not switch it up, they'll keep trying to get more pollen by growing more bud... But when its spread out they put their energy into the creation of seeds...
Really try to get rid of that botanicare cal/mag... that shit is no good... I am not 100% certain as to how to tell you how to handle the PH-ing situation with what you have going on... See how the PH keeps rising? thats gonna be happening in your soil on top of what you already have in the soil to buffer the PH... Its a whole lot of shit going on that is just unnecessary stress in the root zone, either by fucking with the microbe pops, or the roots in general... all that variation in the PH going up, and down, and then back up, and then finally stabilizing when the liquid dries up enough for the buffers in the soil to take back over... It just seems like way to much going on to be useful or good for the plants and soil food web... I really dont know, I'm just trying to common sense it out here... I would suggest just getting the GO ca/mg+ and put the earth juice PH crystals on the shelf where my bottles of EJ up and down are (seriously, they keep getting farther and farther back on the shelf of shit that doesnt get used, after that it goes in a box and gets given away when it becomes a hassle to store it, you know whats behind them? The general hydroponics orange and blue bottles of PH up and down), and no longer cause yourself the headache of dealing with that bullshit... As long as your using RO water, adding a little ca/mg+ to replace what your taking out with the RO maker... You'll be fine... I understand your cause to worry but even the GO bottles tell you not to PH their solutions no matter how low they are... when I was using GO, I was getting a PH in the 4 range... I checked and double checked and triple checked their bottles, their website... they explained it the same way I did, organic nutrients do not need PH-ing.... the critters and the roots of your plants will create the environment they want as long as you give them what they need to do it... The entire PH range becomes useful in organic gardening, it does not matter, you can feed them shit thats anywhere between 4 and 9.... very rarely will you see anything at those #'s but they mean nothing anymore once everything is organic and the water is decent... You have both aside from the bot. cal/mag and Ph xtals... (its natural... not organic... big difference).
Below are a few pics of my Cheese Quake crew... I smell querkle and I'm happy about that... I have different 2 cuts going on in that mess.... 3 querk doms and 1 that has a little more cheesy smell and look... but they both grow kinda similar... I cant wait for this one... That AOS I have in jars is killing me to wait on it to cure but thats how it goes... I broke up a nug of it this morning and it literally smells identical to the bcs dom. that was completely pink/purple the second it started growing buds on my last from seed grow... I grew the greener/JTR looking one thats in the jars now with the aforementioned seed run, and it was nothing like what its turning into this time... I'm not at all disappointed.... at all... I was actually kinda stressing because I wasnt getting a smell out of it but now being in the jars for a few weeks it has that strawberry/lemonade/diesel fuel smell that the bcs looking one had...
You know what I say about adjusting the PH-ing of any liquids... So theres your answer right there... This entire run that I did, the 4 AOS girls never once had the PH of anything checked (aside the soil) never mind adjusted, as well as the cheese quakes that are just starting to get their bud sets going on, nada... never... I check the PH of the soil once they root in the final pots which is 2-3 weeks after final transplant..... then before flip, and mid 12/12 and then let it ride... Basically no real method, just try to remember to do it occasionally unless you see some funk going on... Most times if you see some kind of deficiency or something that appears to be PH related is more than likely going to be your supersoil running out of gas... something or another has been used up... usually in most cases with subcools supersoil recipe, the first thing you see when you're running out is the N... Then you need to see where you are in reference to the finish line and make the decision if you are going to top dress or not, I'd say after week 4 on an 8-9 weeker I'd say no... figure something else out and supplement, I'd go very light on N after the halfway as I have said... Or top dress a very little and see what happens but if you are just starting to see signs of def.s coming at week 4, I'd say no....
All this talk of light leaks had me all heated up so I ran down to do a check seeing I've been moving things around and changing setups.... I went in to find 3 surge protectors beaming... 2 in my veg tent, I couldnt really see them, they werent beaming but I could see reddish orange light coming through and around the tape... I put another layer of the actual aluminum duct tape on them.. and one outside my flowering tent which was covered but it was pointing right at my tent where the zipper is, I leave that zipper open on occasion when I want more air to get to the lower fans in the tent and blow up...
The nanners.... some will actually turn into pollen sacs... I think the banana's are sterile for the most part, I dont believe they'll actually shoot pollen, I could be wrong.. but some herms will produce actual pollen sacs, check that out... all I know is they suck and I look out for both banana's in the buds and pollen sacs at the base of branches etc... where ever... I go up and down every branch of plants starting around the end of week 3 till about 6 every few days or more if I can with anything I havent grown out before, but I use one of those LED head lamps, that shit works nice when you suspect a plant, you definitely cant see them under the red-light of HPS and under the blue it can be tough depending on the color of the buds but the whitish LED works nice..... You'll get those little sterile white seeds around where the nanners pop up depending on when the nanners popped up, the earlier they pop up, the closer to actually being viable the seeds will be... Dont ever use them though...
If enough pollen is let out, and gets all over a plant, meaning hitting it in several different branches, not concentrated like with the bananas, an actual pollen sac... the plants will shut down bud production and go into seed making mode stopping the production of bud because reproduction is their purpose, I dont know what the % of plant that has to be pollinated but once they hit a certain point they halt bud and make seeds... no longer supplying us with that nice sensi... If you get a little pollen on a branch or 2, they may not switch it up, they'll keep trying to get more pollen by growing more bud... But when its spread out they put their energy into the creation of seeds...
Really try to get rid of that botanicare cal/mag... that shit is no good... I am not 100% certain as to how to tell you how to handle the PH-ing situation with what you have going on... See how the PH keeps rising? thats gonna be happening in your soil on top of what you already have in the soil to buffer the PH... Its a whole lot of shit going on that is just unnecessary stress in the root zone, either by fucking with the microbe pops, or the roots in general... all that variation in the PH going up, and down, and then back up, and then finally stabilizing when the liquid dries up enough for the buffers in the soil to take back over... It just seems like way to much going on to be useful or good for the plants and soil food web... I really dont know, I'm just trying to common sense it out here... I would suggest just getting the GO ca/mg+ and put the earth juice PH crystals on the shelf where my bottles of EJ up and down are (seriously, they keep getting farther and farther back on the shelf of shit that doesnt get used, after that it goes in a box and gets given away when it becomes a hassle to store it, you know whats behind them? The general hydroponics orange and blue bottles of PH up and down), and no longer cause yourself the headache of dealing with that bullshit... As long as your using RO water, adding a little ca/mg+ to replace what your taking out with the RO maker... You'll be fine... I understand your cause to worry but even the GO bottles tell you not to PH their solutions no matter how low they are... when I was using GO, I was getting a PH in the 4 range... I checked and double checked and triple checked their bottles, their website... they explained it the same way I did, organic nutrients do not need PH-ing.... the critters and the roots of your plants will create the environment they want as long as you give them what they need to do it... The entire PH range becomes useful in organic gardening, it does not matter, you can feed them shit thats anywhere between 4 and 9.... very rarely will you see anything at those #'s but they mean nothing anymore once everything is organic and the water is decent... You have both aside from the bot. cal/mag and Ph xtals... (its natural... not organic... big difference).
Below are a few pics of my Cheese Quake crew... I smell querkle and I'm happy about that... I have different 2 cuts going on in that mess.... 3 querk doms and 1 that has a little more cheesy smell and look... but they both grow kinda similar... I cant wait for this one... That AOS I have in jars is killing me to wait on it to cure but thats how it goes... I broke up a nug of it this morning and it literally smells identical to the bcs dom. that was completely pink/purple the second it started growing buds on my last from seed grow... I grew the greener/JTR looking one thats in the jars now with the aforementioned seed run, and it was nothing like what its turning into this time... I'm not at all disappointed.... at all... I was actually kinda stressing because I wasnt getting a smell out of it but now being in the jars for a few weeks it has that strawberry/lemonade/diesel fuel smell that the bcs looking one had...
Crab Pot
Well-Known Member
Okay...I watered this morning... here is a little history on the grow... then a couple more questions... please...
Plant 1 : og #18 A
Plant 2 : og #18 B
Plant 3 : kosher kush A
Plant 4 : kosher kush B
Plants currently appear healthy, leaves all lush and green, moderate amount of small flowers, light stress early in veg caused crispy leaves that were removed while supercropping
Vegged 36 days from seed, 2 gal pots, roots organics organic soil and teas, 18/6 1000w hd, transplanted into 7 gal smart pots 1 week prior to 12/12 with roughly 50% modified supersoil, plants were topped and LST into bushes with 12 - 18 heads, 30% lollipop
Flower 18 days, RO water and CalMag+, 12/12 1000w hps, 7 gal smart pots
5/19/13 Watering:
*RO water*, <100ppm CalMag+, 72F, 6.6ph
*Runoff water*:
og #18 A = 5.9ph, 69F, 1450ppm
og #18 B = 5.8ph, 69F, 1400ppm
kosher kush A = 5.8ph, 69F, 1400ppm
kosher kush B = 5.8ph, 68F, 1800ppm
Questions:
1) Thoughts on adding Earth Juice ph up to increase the water from 6.6ph to maybe 7.0 in order to get the runoff water ph up?
2) Thoughts on the runoff water ppm? (1800ppm! lol)
THANKS!!!
Plant 1 : og #18 A
Plant 2 : og #18 B
Plant 3 : kosher kush A
Plant 4 : kosher kush B
Plants currently appear healthy, leaves all lush and green, moderate amount of small flowers, light stress early in veg caused crispy leaves that were removed while supercropping
Vegged 36 days from seed, 2 gal pots, roots organics organic soil and teas, 18/6 1000w hd, transplanted into 7 gal smart pots 1 week prior to 12/12 with roughly 50% modified supersoil, plants were topped and LST into bushes with 12 - 18 heads, 30% lollipop
Flower 18 days, RO water and CalMag+, 12/12 1000w hps, 7 gal smart pots
5/19/13 Watering:
*RO water*, <100ppm CalMag+, 72F, 6.6ph
*Runoff water*:
og #18 A = 5.9ph, 69F, 1450ppm
og #18 B = 5.8ph, 69F, 1400ppm
kosher kush A = 5.8ph, 69F, 1400ppm
kosher kush B = 5.8ph, 68F, 1800ppm
Questions:
1) Thoughts on adding Earth Juice ph up to increase the water from 6.6ph to maybe 7.0 in order to get the runoff water ph up?
2) Thoughts on the runoff water ppm? (1800ppm! lol)
THANKS!!!
You answered everything yourself with what I underlined in bold above... That is what is important when everything is organic... I'm 100% serious... The new growth... I am not exactly certain how precise the above method of PH checking is, I tried looking around on actual gardening sites, and I could not find anything about using the runoff water as a guide to checking PH at all.. So I'm thinking this is a stoner science method...Maybe it is the most widely used PH checking method in horticulture as I've seen a few people say around here but I cant find to much... but I didnt get to crazy with my searching... The only places I read about using run off for measuring anything is on marijuana forums...
The methods suggested on gardening sites are to A. use a meter.. B. find the sampling thing at home depot or wherever, take a few samples from roughly 2" below the surface, and send them out for analysis.. C. take a sample and put vinegar or baking soda, but that method will only tell you if its acidic or alkaline.. As far as using a TDS meter on runoff, you'd need to run it through a coffee filter before it could be accurate because of the solids in the water that are coming out with the runoff, which in my opinion are going to affect PH as well which is why I keep preaching how inaccurate runoff is and to get the meter... WAY TO MUCH WORK DUDE... Not that a lot of work is bad in any way, I'm all about hard work and lots of it... but meaningless work or work thats gonna do more harm than good eventually is...
Do yourself a favor, do a search on google, and search bing as well about PH and organic container growing/farming, marijuana is closer to tomatoes than any other plant so suggestions toward tomatoes can be read a little more literally than any other fruit/veggy/plant... Try to avoid marijuana forums, see what you come up with...
My thoughts are you are beating yourself up over this...